Bupe Can supplements help a Sub taper? can u swtich to SAO

[Selina_sanity]

Hi guys. I've posted before asking about Ibogaine. What I want to know is can you use supplements such as DLPA, Velarian root, 5HTP etc to help with your sub taper? basically take them same time as your tapering?

Also would switching to Dihydrocodeine or Tramadol or Cocodamol help minimize Subutex-withdrawals?

If anybody has any experience, advise and information regarding this I shall be ever so greatful. And has anyone quit long-term sub and stayed clean?

thank you.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

Supplements like valerian and kava and what not should not cause you any harm during your sub taper. Taking vitamins and whatnot is actually recommended during tapering, and during withdrawals in order to keep your body in the best condition it can be in.

You can take tramadol along with subutex and not get precipitated withdrawal, but whats the point? Taking other opiates while doing a sub taper would definitely lead you to precipitated withdrawal, since you'd have to wait til the codeine was outof you system before being able to dose with sub again.

I would save the DHC or Tramadol until after you fully stop taking subutex, just to maybe take the edge off for the first few days. But this is obviously not the best solution, since it will probably just lead to getting high again then you'll be straight back to where you were before.

I would just continue tapering your sub, slowly as you feel comfortable. If you start feeling like you cant handle it, hold at that dose for a while to acclimate yourself. Stick to OTC comfort meds after you fully stop, such as sleep aids, vitamins and shit, loperamide for the runs. Make sure you eat well and exercise.

If you search around, there are literally metric shit-tons of threads about tapering and withdrawal.

Goodluck

 

[Selina_sanity]

Like I said if I can "swtich" to a short acting opiate such as the ones I mentioned. I do not plan to take the SAO's with subutex but "after" when I quit the Subutex, if needed.

Does anyone what can help a sub taper and withdrawals? because I've been researching around this board and the Internet and I could not find many people who claimed anything helped them during their raper and withdrawals, not to mention PAWS too. I haven't seen too many folks stay clean after sub, either they're in PAWS or just never post again and some relapse. Not very encouraging at all.

Has anybody tried Low dose Naltrexone to help PAWS? has anybody switched to a short acting opiate to help fight sub WDs. I know myself and I do not plan to get addicted again to such opiates, I only want something which can help. I've never touched an opiate in my 5-6 years of sub use. I've more or less changed people, routine and social life, I have a decent routine and lifestyle now and also do a lot of excercise. I just hope anything can remotely help sub taper, withdrawals and sub PAWS!

 

[KnowBudz]

Supplements never did anything to ease my w/d.....but taking any sort of opiate will only provide temporary relief while extending the process. I also tried naltrexone in the past, but never found it to be helpful....it did zilch for the cravings.

 

[eon_blue]

As you know, buprenorphine has a lengthy half life and the consequences of which mean a lengthy withdrawal process. Although unlike methadone, buprenorphine is much more forgiving pain-wise but the PAWS do take quite a bit of time to get over.

Personally, coming off of +/- 6mg of suboxone cold turkey took me close to two weeks for the immediate w/d symptoms to go away, and another couple of months before my sex drive, energy levels and sleep patterns started to return to normal.

I didn't really find anything in particular that helped with the whole process, other than the w/d meds they gave me in rehab the first few weeks (clonidine, motrin, a shit-ton of vitamins and wellbutrin). After that, I was on my own and the only real thing that I did religously to take my mind off of the PAWS was to exercise. It helps, but it's not a 24/7 cure.

I would avoid switching to other opiates/taking anything that has any real addiction potential since the length of the PAWS could go on for awhile, but the usual suspects should help you out for the first month or so....immodium, clonidine, motrin, valerian root, caffeine, exercise, etc. Having a few Tramadol around for if you really need them shouldn't hurt.

Hope this helps, there are actually quite a few people on here that have successfully gotten off of Suboxone. I don't think that the relapse rate is any higher than it is with any other opiate really, I've had a couple myself but it's just par for the course. What matters most is that you're focused on moving forward.

Good luck

 

[Selina_sanity]

Thanks guys.

@knobuz did u take low dose naltrexone? I was referring to the low dose Naltrexone people go which helps the Endorphins.

If I taper down to 0.2-0.2 of bup then would that minimize PAWS? I never gotten PAWS from any opiates before though. I was led to believe bup PAWS are different to SAO PAWS.

 

[Psyastic]

As you know, buprenorphine has a lengthy half life and the consequences of which mean a lengthy withdrawal process. Although unlike methadone, buprenorphine is much more forgiving pain-wise but the PAWS do take quite a bit of time to get over.

Personally, coming off of +/- 6mg of suboxone cold turkey took me close to two weeks for the immediate w/d symptoms to go away, and another couple of months before my sex drive, energy levels and sleep patterns started to return to normal.

I didn't really find anything in particular that helped with the whole process, other than the w/d meds they gave me in rehab the first few weeks (clonidine, motrin, a shit-ton of vitamins and wellbutrin). After that, I was on my own and the only real thing that I did religously to take my mind off of the PAWS was to exercise. It helps, but it's not a 24/7 cure.

I would avoid switching to other opiates/taking anything that has any real addiction potential since the length of the PAWS could go on for awhile, but the usual suspects should help you out for the first month or so....immodium, clonidine, motrin, valerian root, caffeine, exercise, etc. Having a few Tramadol around for if you really need them shouldn't hurt.

Hope this helps, there are actually quite a few people on here that have successfully gotten off of Suboxone. I don't think that the relapse rate is any higher than it is with any other opiate really, I've had a couple myself but it's just par for the course. What matters most is that you're focused on moving forward.

Good luck

But why get off Suboxone? There seems to be a general consensus among many that this is the best thing to do. Why not get down to a couple milligrams (where the side effects are very minimal) and then just take it the rest of your life? People take antidepressants or drugs that help with other diseases for their whole lives. Why is suboxone cessation a necessary end?

I only ask because I just got on the stuff finally after 5 years of battling opiate addiction and cessation seems to be at the end of the path the doctor's suggested treatment plan, as well as most information I've read. To me, taking suboxone seems very similar to taking insulin for diabetes.

 

[Selina_sanity]

But why get off Suboxone? There seems to be a general consensus among many that this is the best thing to do. Why not get down to a couple milligrams (where the side effects are very minimal) and then just take it the rest of your life? People take antidepressants or drugs that help with other diseases for their whole lives. Why is suboxone cessation a necessary end?

I only ask because I just got on the stuff finally after 5 years of battling opiate addiction and cessation seems to be at the end of the path the doctor's suggested treatment plan, as well as most information I've read. To me, taking suboxone seems very similar to taking insulin for diabetes.

You can't take something like Buprenorphine for life, because it's very strong and the more you take it the more bored you get, the more it takes your soul, the more unmotivated you get, it's logic that if you take something strong as Subutex-suboxone which has a very long-half life then of course it's going to turn on you and you would want off. I also felt the same when I first took it believing it's the best thing since slice-bread but we tend to be naive and ignorant, we all should not taking a medication like bup for a long time will only make you in a fog, make you depressed and even suicidle, many people report the exact same symptoms. It's not life taking bup, your not yourself, its not a reality. The anti-depresants work differently and are totally different medicines, but even they stop working sooner or later. Bup is x50 times strong as Morphine so you can imagaine putting something in your body everyday will only ruin you, it will effect liver and brain and long term implications are scary. It's a reason why so many folks want to get off bup, it's a reason why so many suffer long withdrawals and long PAWS. It takes away your life, that I can guarantee . Now if one was to use it for short term then that can be considered but how many people will want to do it for the short term? when it gets u high u want to feel like taking it everyda, it's addictive but later u become dependent. Trust me the longer you take bup/sub the more u bored, depressed and unhappy u get, the more you lose intrest in things, even lose intrest in Television. Everybody who's taken Sub-Bup for over 2 years aren't dissulusioned are they in saying it kills their soul. Not everybody can be wrong. We are Humans and not robots or species which can take any med everyday and feel well, espeacially Buprenorphine. This is relatvely a new medication and nobody knows long-term effects, you just need to go on forums and see people complaining about it.

If I was you I would get off ASAP. If anybody has the choice of getting off drugs and staying clean or taking bup for years and years then trust me everybody will choose the first option. Getting off opiates is not that diffcult as it seems, just need to have will-power and determination, nothing is impossible. You wont die if u dont take opiates, but once your on bup its totally a different ball game, you want off but cant because of the long withdrawals. It's not worth it. One is better off riding out short acting opiates withdrawals for a few days to a week and your done. If people knew before hand how bup will make them feel and how "HARD" it is to get off then people will never go on it and infact most probably will rather quit opiates in days or weeks and change their mindset.

 

[piebald]

wait now people are taking opiates to get off subs? did i miss something?

 

[eon_blue]

But why get off Suboxone? There seems to be a general consensus among many that this is the best thing to do. Why not get down to a couple milligrams (where the side effects are very minimal) and then just take it the rest of your life? People take antidepressants or drugs that help with other diseases for their whole lives. Why is suboxone cessation a necessary end?

I only ask because I just got on the stuff finally after 5 years of battling opiate addiction and cessation seems to be at the end of the path the doctor's suggested treatment plan, as well as most information I've read. To me, taking suboxone seems very similar to taking insulin for diabetes.

I think that for most people, living life without needing maintanence therapy or drugs to feel normal is ideal. Nobody wants to have to take something everyday just to feel like a normal person, and if you feel like you can get off something like Suboxone and live life without it then why not? Why stay physically dependant on something and enslaved to it's routine if there's a chance you could live without it and be equally or more happy?

That's not to say that's the case for everyone though, and I realize that. If you feel you need to be on bupe or antidepressants indefinitely to keep yourself clean, sane, or whatever then by all means stay on them.

 

[Selina_sanity]

Yeah I agree!!!

 

[Znegative]

the idea of switching to short acting opiates to get off long lasting opioids is a good idea in theory, its just very hard (at least for me to practice). I think it's best to take the short acting ones, earlier on in your detox, because it will probably make the taper smoother, without you getting high (because there's no way you'd get high off of codeine after being on subutex maintenance in a few days).

If I were you, I'd do a super quick methadone taper from your subutex, 40,30,20, 10 , 5,2.5 . That's worked for me in the past, worst w/d i got was insomnia. However I understand that methadone may not be easily available to you.

 

[KnowBudz]

Most folks I know who have been successful tapering off do so very slowly over a long time, and go down as low as possible before jumping off. Some people have no discomfort, others have it rough. I agree that it would be nice if everyone was able to use the medication for a limited amount of time, but if the choice was to stay on or die, I'd take suboxone any day. There is no evidence that long-term use is harmful, especially considering the alternative!

I took Revia, the oral for of naltrexone. It can have a blocking effect, but never did a thing for cravings, which are the real issue. Supposedly it can be used to supress cravings for alcohol, but that is a different beast. The LDN therapy seems fairly new, and I'm not even sure if it is accepted treatment for opiates. I've seen a bit of anecdotal stuff from people who claim it helps, but no more so than with vitamins or any other fad.

 

[Selina_sanity]

I know few people who did the ldn only to say it doesnt do much after 2-3 days.

I dont know which is a good sao to switch from subutex-suboxone. is Dihydrocodeine ok?.

Is it also true if you switch to a sao from sub the paws are lessened? where by it loosens the receptors or something like that?

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

my advice is taper low and stay on that low dosage for a couple months then just quit (don't save any extra "just in case") try to have clonidine available to take a couple times a day to help with hot/cold flashes and for some sedation. If you take tramadol or another weak opiate you're just prolonging the w/d's. Just stop taking them once you get used to that low dose and will yourself through it.. most effective but also challenging way (it is how i did it) i like a challenge and since i did it like that, i went through 1 week of w/d's instead of 4. But how you do it, and how you choose to keep yourself comfortable is up to you.. i just kept telling myself it is worth it and will be over in a couple days.. and before i knew it, it was.

Benzos help tremendously also if you can get any, just don't get hooked on those.. w/d's are worse.

i was on bupe for 4 years and methadon a year before that and OC's and H for 2 years before that.. if i can do it, so can you.

 

[Selina_sanity]

But how is it wise to stay on a low-dose for a few months? isn't that just building-adding Buprenorphine-Subutex into your system? I was led to believe the less time your on low doses i.e 3 weeks of 0.2 the better?

 

[grizz88]

Hi guys. I've posted before asking about Ibogaine. What I want to know is can you use supplements such as DLPA, Velarian root, 5HTP etc to help with your sub taper? basically take them same time as your tapering?

Also would switching to Dihydrocodeine or Tramadol or Cocodamol help minimize Subutex-withdrawals?

If anybody has any experience, advise and information regarding this I shall be ever so greatful. And has anyone quit long-term sub and stayed clean?

thank you.

great thread. my buddies been talking about this for a while... I believe ibogaine would for sure help out the PAWS from suboxone.

Personally, I feel like i just made it out of the worst shit storm ive ever had (suboxone withdrawl from only a month of use) day 13... had headaches every day pretty much had to stretch out all the time.. still kinda do. sleeps almost back in order and the appetitie for food and physical exhertion pretty much exploded...

this is after I tapered down to 1mg (yes, i did break my suboxones down to 8 tiny pieces) and would eat one, to one every other day for at least ten days before zero hour..

really have no desire to score anything, besides maybe some xanax and go drinking? that sounds like fun

 

[BrokedownPalace]

I too believe that Ibogaine would be very beneficial in dealing with the PAWS. I wish I could utilize ibogaine to try and get this gorilla off my back. Alternatively, I stumbled upon this website for a rehab place, that uses Ketamine as an aid in detox/recovery. You get to do like 3 or 4 Ketamine experiences over the course of the rehab, like 45 days or something. You do like one a week or something. They then have group meetings and one-on-one meetings to discuss your Ketamine experience, and help integrate it into your life. Since K-holes can be incredibly beautiful and introspective.