Misc California Poppy (Eschscholzia californica)

[Swimmingdancer]

All I could find on here were a few old threads with barely any info, misinformation, or even unsubstantiated claims from people with no personal experience, or making assumptions that people asking about it mistakenly thought it was an opium poppy. But please let me know if it's discussed in detail/with accuracy in any other threads

So basically I'm wondering if anyone:
- has personal experience with using it for sleep and/or anxiety and/or opioid withdrawal etc? (I'm not expecting/requiring recreational effects)
- knows much about the mechanisms of action and any practical drug interactions?


The extract I have doesn't say the potency (how much plant material it is equivalent to) unfortunately, but suggests 10-40 drops.

So far I have found a decent amount of info online, but different sources say different things and list different alkaloids.

One source says the main alkaloid is protopine, which is also is found in opium poppies, is structurally similar to morphine, and increases the binding of GABA like benzos. According to Wikipedia protopine is an antihistamine and analgesic.

Another source says compounds in the extract inhibit dopamine β-hydroxylase and monoamine oxidase B, as well as prolonging the activity of endogenous opioids (endorphins etc).

And those are just 2 articles...

 

[Opanaking]

I had an extract and tried it for sleep a few times. It worked and made my dreams vivid like a benzo would. It should be noted that the california poppy is a diaretic so during withdrawal it's going to increase that. There were other times when it did nothing but make me feel morning sickness the next day. It works better when mixed with other relaxing herbs such as valerien, kava, or passion flower.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I've used is unsuccessfully for insomnia in the past a few times. Each time in the hopes of some success and that it wouldn't be as fruitless as the last attempt. Spaces of months or a year in between, usually at the low end of a cycle when I'm desperate for anything to work. I don't mean to be a bummer, because it sounds like you are trying hard to find a solution, and maybe it will work for you. After all, it's just my anecdotal experience. But it always left me irritated because of the cost for tinctures and extracts. Tinctures being the only time I really felt any even mild effect. Any effect I did feel was so far below valerian I just gave up. I do hope you have better luck. But look at me at 5:17 am because I woke up after 2 hours and can't sleep. The chronic insomniac.

That's so weird, I haven't had any luck with valerian, other than it making cats love me, but my couple of times taking the california poppy extract so far it did seem to work (will update after more experimentation). Maybe I've just never taken enough valerian? What form and dosage did you take it in?

I had an extract and tried it for sleep a few times. It worked and made my dreams vivid like a benzo would. It should be noted that the california poppy is a diaretic so during withdrawal it's going to increase that. There were other times when it did nothing but make me feel morning sickness the next day. It works better when mixed with other relaxing herbs such as valerien, kava, or passion flower.

Well I have all of those, (I have serious long-term insomnia), so as long as they're safe together I can try that

 

[Foreigner]

It only works on me if I use my home made extract, which is 1:2 CP:alcohol. The store bought ones are wussy and overpriced. I don't use it regularly, only when I'm having a particularly bad bought of insomnia, so I can't tell you if tolerance comes with long term use.

I don't know the pharmacology or biochemistry, I only know the hot/cold philosophy for this one. If you're cold when everyone else in the room is fine or warm, then valerian would be good for you. If you tend to be hot when everyone else in the room is fine or cold, then california poppy would be better.

If a hot type person takes valerian it will stimulate them or even make them manic.

 

[geomantric]

ive only smoked it in big fat blunts i found i got a mild buzz but only worked once a day afyer first smoke i dont feel much could be good for opiate wd though.

 

[sekio]

Cali poppy is a curious case. Sigma has some refs on it if youd like.

California poppy yielded alkaloids californidine, escholtzine, N-methyllaurotetanine, caryachine, O-methylcaryachine, and the pavine alkaloid, 6S,12S-neocaryachine-7-O-methyl ether N-metho salt in one study.1
Neurological: In an in vitro study, 70% ethanol extract of California poppy was able to bind to 5-HT(1A) and 5-HT(7) receptors.1 The activity on the 5-HT(1A) receptor was at least partly due to the presence of the aporphine alkaloid (N-me-laurotetanine).

IMO none of those look particularly fun, I suppose the escarzotine or whatever kind of looks like two MDMA molecules glued together, but that does not mean anything SAR wise unfortunately...

Save your money, there are probably better supplements out there? The nearest comparable drugs are things like glaucine (found in Mexican prickly poppy I believe?) and sparteine, I guess?

Nobody has really tracked down pavinane SAR (the funky tetra- through hexa-cyclic molecules from poppy depicted above). Aside from establishing the structure and that they occur in varying proportions in various poppies.

I would avoid consuming california poppy as a "supplement" given we have no damn clue how it works (if at all).

 

[Foreigner]

It's been used for centuries without any problems. There are other constituents in the plant that science probably hasn't even identified yet. Just looking at certain molecules does not tell you much about the synergistic whole of the plant.

As herbalists we don't usually give it long-term, but the same is true of any sleep aid. With CP we recommend two week stints at most and then taking a break. It's non-addictive but like any sleep aid it can be habit forming.

 

[lenses]

My girlfriend likes to take the resin sublingually , seems to work the best that way.Smoking is really funky, tastes like raisins.

It seems serotonergic and is a mild sedative . Can bring some nausea though . Not the most remarkable drug but with it being a california wildflower it could have some promise. I guess it grows like crazy there.

I don't think it does much for opiate withdrawals though.

-lenses

 

[Swimmingdancer]

It only works on me if I use my home made extract, which is 1:2 CP:alcohol. The store bought ones are wussy and overpriced. I don't use it regularly, only when I'm having a particularly bad bought of insomnia, so I can't tell you if tolerance comes with long term use.

I don't know the pharmacology or biochemistry, I only know the hot/cold philosophy for this one. If you're cold when everyone else in the room is fine or warm, then valerian would be good for you. If you tend to be hot when everyone else in the room is fine or cold, then california poppy would be better.

If a hot type person takes valerian it will stimulate them or even make them manic.

That's interesting. I am almost always way too cold. Is that from Ayurveda or Chinese Medicine or something? So far I have found valerian to do nothing for me and california poppy to seem to work quite well for sleep. Although I will try valerian again in larger doses, maybe I just wasn't taking enough or had crappy quality valerian.

Cali poppy is a curious case. Sigma has some refs on it if youd like.

IMO none of those look particularly fun, I suppose the escarzotine or whatever kind of looks like two MDMA molecules glued together, but that does not mean anything SAR wise unfortunately...

Save your money, there are probably better supplements out there? The nearest comparable drugs are things like glaucine (found in Mexican prickly poppy I believe?) and sparteine, I guess?

Nobody has really tracked down pavinane SAR (the funky tetra- through hexa-cyclic molecules from poppy depicted above). Aside from establishing the structure and that they occur in varying proportions in various poppies.

I would avoid consuming california poppy as a "supplement" given we have no damn clue how it works (if at all).

Thanks sekio.
Well, there are plenty of things where we don't really understand how they work, including some popular prescription drugs, but it is frustrating not being able to find much solid info on california poppy and that so many of the sources say different things.

It's been used for centuries without any problems. There are other constituents in the plant that science probably hasn't even identified yet. Just looking at certain molecules does not tell you much about the synergistic whole of the plant.

Yeah, it has a ton of alkaloids, many have been identified aside from the ones sekio listed, with different sources listing different alkaloids as being the primary one(s) found in the plant, and like you said, plants have a synergistic action which is hard to pin down. The other thing is that I'm sure different plants have different composition. My main concern is that I am taking a bunch of other vitamins/supplements/herbs/drugs and was hoping to figure out if there are any risks, interactions, or potential cross-tolerance/cross-dependence.

It seems serotonergic and is a mild sedative . Can bring some nausea though . Not the most remarkable drug but with it being a california wildflower it could have some promise. I guess it grows like crazy there.

I don't think it does much for opiate withdrawals though.

I am mostly dealing with PAWS now, one of the biggest symptoms being severe chronic insomnia, so it could help in that regard. Also with anxiety, depression and pain. Haven't found it nauseating (yet) but maybe I am am just tolerant to nausea from experiencing nausea so often, lol.

It worked and made my dreams vivid like a benzo would. It should be noted that the california poppy is a diaretic so during withdrawal it's going to increase that.

Weird, I did not find it diuretic at all, and it hasn't made my dreams more vivid, nor do benzos. I guess everyone is different

I'm wondering if part of why different people report such different results is because there may be a huge variability between different plants/batches/suppliers.

 

[sekio]

Well, there are plenty of things where we don't really understand how they work, including some popular prescription drugs,

Not knowing *how* something works is different than not knowing *if it works at all*. For instance some anticonvulsants do not have a documented effect, other than the fact that they stop convulsions.

My main concern is that I am taking a bunch of other vitamins/supplements/herbs/drugs and was hoping to figure out if there are any risks, interactions, or potential cross-tolerance/cross-dependence.

If you don't know what the active components are, nor how the plant produces its effects, that's hard to answer

there may be a huge variability between different plants/batches/suppliers.

I guarantee it. Of course, without a HPLC it may be hard to quantify the exact differences.

One could always do the old-school pharmacology trick of preparing a variety of solvent extracts (water, alcohol, acetone/ethyl acetate/ether, pet ether/hexanes) and seeing which fractions retain activity. Then continue to wittle down the extracts until you isolate the active component(s). (I bet the medium-polar, alkaloidal fraction is responsible for effects.)

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I'm definitely way too lazy for that, lol

Just an update, the extract I have works quite well, and at this point I don't care too much if I don't really understand how it works, I'd rather that than go insane from PAWS and insomnia. Will try it some more times and report back since I know others are interested in this plant.

 

[mrflowers00]

i never felt any benefit from taking cali poppies