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Stimulants Caffeine, Safe but counter-productive stimulant?

I think routine plays a role here, too. The cup before getting up, the one you have after lunch, or during a break at work, or while reading the newspaper (my mom). At some point it's hard to differentiate what triggers you to drink that one cup of coffee, the need for the caffeine or the whole setting/custom thing. Availability and it being a socially accepted and even pursued as a hobby (in lack of another word for the connoisseurs) makes it all easier.
 
lecroute said:
I think routine plays a role here, too. The cup before getting up, the one you have after lunch, or during a break at work, or while reading the newspaper (my mom). At some point it's hard to differentiate what triggers you to drink that one cup of coffee, the need for the caffeine or the whole setting/custom thing. Availability and it being a socially accepted and even pursued as a hobby (in lack of another word for the connoisseurs) makes it all easier.
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You are definitely correct about that. Although I do specifically get very strong alerting effects from caffeine, I am also very attached to the ritual. I especially feel this if I’m in a very good mood. preparing my coffee gives me a small task which takes my mind off my extreme tiredness in the morning and then consuming it gives me a reason to sit down and chill for a bit. next, usually within about 45 minutes, the caffeine will hit me and my tiredness will be lifted very suddenly which feels amazing. though I don’t often succeed in doing this, I found that the best thing to do is start my work tasks straight after drinking my coffee but before the caffeine kicks in. this way, I’m already in the zone so the energy boost will direct my focus onto that.
 
lecroute said:
That's the word I was looking for and couldn't come up with!
And the thing about how just preparing your coffee already begins to act on your mood.
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No problem, glad I helped you find the word. it’s actually something I hear mentioned a lot in articles about coffee and caffeine.
Although I generally really prefer the psychoactive effects of energy drinks and much prefer them in the summer because they don’t make me faint due to the heat like coffee does, cracking open a can doesn’t give the same vibes as brewing a pot of coffee. even better, if I finish my work tasks in advance and I have a free day to myself, preparing that pot of coffee feels even better as I start thinking about all the wonderful things I can do in my spare time.
 
See... Today I decided to go coffee free. It's the first day in months. I even had my coffee when I had 39 C fever. But it's really the "ritual" of preparing it that I had to avoid (ritual in parenthesis because I drink instant coffee). It's not the coffee I was automatically after, it was the preparing.
 
I don't notice anything if i stop drinking coffee. Juice gives me an energy boost in the morning. I love the taste of coffee though but only have 1 in the morning
 
I sometimes get really emotional when I consciously think about the fact that caffeine is now working for me and is helping me deal with depression instead of causing it like it was before. I was literally about to quit this substance forever but here is my advice for anyone thinking about going down that road.
Firstly, if you think it might be causing you problems there’s no harm in quitting temporarily, you can always go back if your issues aren’t solved.
Secondly, if caffeine suddenly starts causing you issues like anxiety or depression at reasonable doses, something has obviously changed and it may very well be a nutritional deficiency or hormone imbalance.
For me, I strongly suspect it was a vitamin and protein deficiency because when I increased my protein and vegetable intake, I would always get very positive effects from caffeine and after a few weeks of eating these healthy foods consistently, I didn’t get anxiety even from huge doses of caffeine.
I noticed that when not on caffeine, I not only feel really sluggish, but somehow a lot more susceptible to depressive feelings and have no optimism despite being much calmer. now, when I consume caffeine in the morning and it affects begin to hit, that background negative mood lift suddenly and I seem to have a lot more optimism about the future. strangely, nicotine which I found much more euphoria and rewarding doesn’t seem to have that special effect which caffeine does. I can’t believe I’m saying that because I love nicotine much more as a recreational drug as well as a functional one. however, although I find nicotine good for getting tasks done later in the day I have a really bad reaction to it in the morning and I don’t know why. furthermore, I realise that nicotine, Even at moderately high amounts does not energise the physical body and produce pleasant alertness in the same way that caffeine does. from my experience of quitting caffeine and replacing it with nicotine for A whole month during ramadan, I learned a valuable lesson. this is that rewarding/dopaminergic properties of a drug might not always be the main determinant of why we like certain drugs. yes, in most cases it probably is yet in others, the main factor could be that a given drug could have a useful functional property such as promoting wakefulness and providing energy in the case of caffeine, or suppressing anxiety in the case of benzodiazepines or tricyclic acid depressants.
 
Neuroprotection said:
I learned a valuable lesson. this is that rewarding/dopaminergic properties of a drug might not always be the main determinant of why we like certain drugs. yes, in most cases it probably is yet in others, the main factor could be that a given drug could have a useful functional property such as promoting wakefulness and providing energy in the case of caffeine, or suppressing anxiety in the case of benzodiazepines or tricyclic acid depressants.
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If you are sleepy/lethargic or anxious/depressed and it's affecting you bad enough, finding relief from that state will be the reward. It's like the nice feeling you get when you can finally! use the the bathroom. Or when your have camps that stop suddenly (like stomach camps). Relief feels rwarding (would have to research as to how connected those emotions are nuerologically, don't have the time for that now).

I think with coffee(taste)/caffeine(effect) is the same as with everything else: As long as you don't overdo it, enjoy!
 
When I was first recovering from meth abuse I was drinking at least 500mg of caffeine a day.

What I learned, is it's important to not drink it all at once. I used to do almost strictly energy drinks.

The roller coaster of emotions was something I was used to, but as I got further in to sobriety I realized it was in my control to experience a more sustainable effect.

Does anyone else try to drink it slowly?

As much as I enjoy the taste I have been consciously trying to improve on this.
 
I don't drink coffee that's too hot (same with food, tea but curiously not hot chocolate unless it hat vodka in it). So it's a little more than luke warm and I can drink it almost like I would water. In one go.

I drink three mugs in the morning, but I think that's because where I used to live until 3 months ago I stayed in bed for at least an hour or two in the mornings, playing games.on my phone, writing or reading.

I still do that but only half an hour so (sleep longer) so I'm going down for one mug while doing a daily puzzle and answering questions about coffee habits. Sometimes I have another mug when I start working, another in the afternoon. Recently (last week or so) I even forgot about coffee altogether once I got up.
 
Madness said:
When I was first recovering from meth abuse I was drinking at least 500mg of caffeine a day.

What I learned, is it's important to not drink it all at once. I used to do almost strictly energy drinks.

The roller coaster of emotions was something I was used to, but as I got further in to sobriety I realized it was in my control to experience a more sustainable effect.

Does anyone else try to drink it slowly?

As much as I enjoy the taste I have been consciously trying to improve on this.
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That’s really interesting. Actually, medical advices to drink it slowly and apparently taking small divided doses of caffeine throughout the day is more effective. however, I personally find that counterproductive. when I take my caffeine divided throughout the day I get much less stimulation or wakefulness but much more likely to get insomnia or at least really struggle to sleep at night. now, I generally consume all my caffeine, sometimes up to 500 mg, about an hour after I wake up and preferably early in the morning. this might sound strange, but when I do this, I don’t crash hard until evening when all the caffeine is probably out of my system and the drowsiness/rebound tiredness helps me to get to sleep. I think people call this riding the waves please correct me if I’m wrong.
On a sidenote, I’m interested to know how you would compare The effects of methamphetamine to those of caffeine in terms of stimulation. I already know meth is much stronger, but was there any qualitative/subjective differences? more importantly, were you still able to get a decent stimulant effect from caffeine after methamphetamine abuse? I know the two drugs have different mechanisms so I guess there’s little to Norcross tolerance, but one of the concerns I have with trying amphetamine type stimulants is that I might not be able to enjoy caffeine anymore
 
Neuroprotection said:
That’s really interesting. Actually, medical advices to drink it slowly and apparently taking small divided doses of caffeine throughout the day is more effective. however, I personally find that counterproductive. when I take my caffeine divided throughout the day I get much less stimulation or wakefulness but much more likely to get insomnia or at least really struggle to sleep at night. now, I generally consume all my caffeine, sometimes up to 500 mg, about an hour after I wake up and preferably early in the morning. this might sound strange, but when I do this, I don’t crash hard until evening when all the caffeine is probably out of my system and the drowsiness/rebound tiredness helps me to get to sleep. I think people call this riding the waves please correct me if I’m wrong.
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Dope, yeah, I understand the wave as you call it, and think I experience it mainly as a positive thing. Though it is hard to know what it's like on the other side without doing it (spacing out doses) both have benefits

Neuroprotection said:
On a sidenote, I’m interested to know how you would compare The effects of methamphetamine to those of caffeine in terms of stimulation. I already know meth is much stronger, but was there any qualitative/subjective differences? more importantly, were you still able to get a decent stimulant effect from caffeine after methamphetamine abuse? I know the two drugs have different mechanisms so I guess there’s little to Norcross tolerance, but one of the concerns I have with trying amphetamine type stimulants is that I might not be able to enjoy caffeine anymore
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Comparing the two, meth (for me) lasts 5 or 6 times longer, makes you hyper focused on tasks that usually aren't really.. progressive the word?

You're right the caffeine and meth to me work differently too. From my understanding meth has a more direct impact on our dopamine functions. Caffeine is more a mental state. Like you said, the wave, the crash.. if you know it's coming then it should be workable.
 
Madness said:
Dope, yeah, I understand the wave as you call it, and think I experience it mainly as a positive thing. Though it is hard to know what it's like on the other side without doing it (spacing out doses) both have benefits



Comparing the two, meth (for me) lasts 5 or 6 times longer, makes you hyper focused on tasks that usually aren't really.. progressive the word?

You're right the caffeine and meth to me work differently too. From my understanding meth has a more direct impact on our dopamine functions. Caffeine is more a mental state. Like you said, the wave, the crash.. if you know it's coming then it should be workable.
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Thank you for that. Given my somewhat addictive personality, High anxiety and tendency to constantly experience extreme nostalgia for the past, I’m probably best sticking to caffeine as my stimulant of choice for daily use, with nicotine being my recreational drug of choice. I feel that I could benefit a lot from amphetamine in terms of focus and getting tasks done. however, I think I once read that the nostalgic tendencies I suffer from, was not necessarily harmful, an indicator that certain drugs like stimulants could be more addictive. although I’ve never tried amphetamine, I’ve heard that one of its unique effects is to produce a sense of optimism and an “I can do this attitude“, as opposed to drugs like opioids which just produce relaxation and euphoria. this motivation/optimism component of psychostimulants really appeals to me. however, it’s also the one I fear most because I know that’s probably what would get me addicted to stimulants if I was able to try them.
Just want to thank you again for your responses which help me out so much. Please excuse any grammar/spelling mistakes, I’m blind and using a screen reader which has unfortunately developed a glitch and now it won’t read to me what is in the text field until I’ve posted it.
 
Neuroprotection said:
Thank you for that. Given my somewhat addictive personality, High anxiety and tendency to constantly experience extreme nostalgia for the past, I’m probably best sticking to caffeine as my stimulant of choice for daily use, with nicotine being my recreational drug of choice. I feel that I could benefit a lot from amphetamine in terms of focus and getting tasks done. however, I think I once read that the nostalgic tendencies I suffer from, was not necessarily harmful, an indicator that certain drugs like stimulants could be more addictive. although I’ve never tried amphetamine, I’ve heard that one of its unique effects is to produce a sense of optimism and an “I can do this attitude“, as opposed to drugs like opioids which just produce relaxation and euphoria. this motivation/optimism component of psychostimulants really appeals to me. however, it’s also the one I fear most because I know that’s probably what would get me addicted to stimulants if I was able to try them.
Just want to thank you again for your responses which help me out so much. Please excuse any grammar/spelling mistakes, I’m blind and using a screen reader which has unfortunately developed a glitch and now it won’t read to me what is in the text field until I’ve posted it.
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Id actually attribute the "can do" attitude you mention to something like cocaine. Sort of a confidence boost. Meth might be "let's gooo" on a repetitive activity. Caffeine might be "this is better than being tired".
 
Madness said:
Id actually attribute the "can do" attitude you mention to something like cocaine. Sort of a confidence boost. Meth might be "let's gooo" on a repetitive activity. Caffeine might be "this is better than being tired".
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This might sound crazy, but for some reason if I’m going to try stimulants I would want to try a reuptake inhibitor like cocaine or methylphenidate rather than amphetamine type releasing agents for a few reasons. firstly, they are generally much shorter acting so as long as they are taken early, they should not affect my sleep. secondly, I believe they are less taxing on the body at least when use short term. I know using stimulants every day is a bad idea unless you have ADHD which I may have undiagnosed, but I do want to use stimulants occasionally either to tackle large projects in future employment or as an occasional mood booster in conjunction with nicotine as apparently the two go really well together.
 
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