Opioids bypass hydromorphone 16mg extended release?

[¿4thand10th?]

Apologies if my search wasn't thorough enough. (I'll preface this by saying I take these meds instranasally, I'm aware of the bioavailability of morphine nasally, but it works for me.)
I recently switched from morphine IR 15mg 5x/day to hydromorphone IR 4mg 4x/day. I was also on morphine 30mg ER 3x/day. The hydromorphone works better than morphine, but is wearing off in just 4 hours or so. Instead of just allowing me that 5th pill a day, my Dr switched me to a once daily hydromorphone 16mg ER. I'm not familiar with this pill and am wondering if I'll be able to bypass whatever mechanism makes it long-acting. Thanks in advance

 

[Dextro .45]

HydroMorph-Contin yellow capsule 18mg with tiny white beads inside ?

Empty beads in thick whiskey glass, add HOT water, just half a shot glass or less so beads are still a mm under water so you can use the handle of stout butter knife to light tap beads until all pulverized/crushed leaving a milky water soluble……add orange juice and drink…..turned XR into IR

Or place ziplock baggy over cup, punch knife handle through bag and tap dry beads into powder for a clean powder for IR administration

I use a pharmaceutical glass mortar & pestal to pulverize tablets into fine powder

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

^This checks out with my last knowledge. Which was the new Oxycontin 'timerx' if I recall --- Ended up soaking them in Pepsi and lemon juice for like 3 days before they finally ungelled.

 

[4DQSAR]

^This checks out with my last knowledge. Which was the new Oxycontin 'timerx' if I recall --- Ended up soaking them in Pepsi and lemon juice for like 3 days before they finally ungelled.

The last time I looked into that TimerX sustained release system, the patent said it bound the active to polyamides. In that case lower alcohols were the answer. As long as you are going to distil off the alcohol after the process, several of the lower alcohols were found to work.

If it is simply those little beads, physical manpulation alone is going to increase parentheral bioavailability.

I should add that the last time someone asked me about the TimerX system, it was Opana (40mg oxymorphone) and the person in question just bought a bottle of Everclear. Left on top of a radiator (or other warm surface), the tablets dissolved in around eight hours. After that, I don't know what they did. I didn't ask, they didn't tell but I assume they just poured the solution on to a pyrex dish and then carefully heated it until the ethanol had all been removed as a vapour (don't smoke around it - I'm not joking).

 

[¿4thand10th?]

The ones I wound up being prescribed are large-ish yellow tablets (Trigen Labs, 6mg.) So I started by using a wet paper towel to wipe off the yellow coating. What was underneath was two layers: one was dark grey and the other white.
I remembered reading elsewhere in the forums about Exalgo tablets and that was the exact appearance described. The user had explained about administering the active side (white-colored) buccally, but I prefer to insufflate for my ROA.
Under the yellow coating that I'd wiped off, the tablet was encased in a thick-ish waxy/plastic-y substance. I used a razor blade to slice the tablet in half, my understanding is that the grey-colored half is inactive ingredients, so I tossed that.
I carefully peeled the waxy/plastic-y coating away from the remaining white-colored half with my thumbnail. I then crushed the white half and sniffed it.
It didn't really deliver a high, but I typically just use my ER meds to avoid WD while I stretch out the time between days I allow myself to use more of the IR for a reliable high anyway. (Like, I'll let myself use a higher IR dose every 3rd or 4th day, and then use a lower dose of the ER in between to maintain a reasonable tolerance level and to make sure I don't run out early.)
Just wanting to clarify that the grey half is *for sure* unusable so I'm not wasting meds? Also wondering if there is a more effective way to remove that waxy coating instead of the tedious task of peeling it off with my nails?
What I used instranasally did seem to turn a bit gooey in my nose (same as the old Opana ERs and the morphine ERs I'd been prescribed prior,) but they did actually seem to work on the pain even if they didn't provide the usual Dilaudid rush.
I appreciate everyone's thorough responses even if they weren't applicable in this case. And thanks in advance if anyone has any further information/advice about this specific manufacturer.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

The last time I looked into that TimerX sustained release system, the patent said it bound the active to polyamides. In that case lower alcohols were the answer. As long as you are going to distil off the alcohol after the process, several of the lower alcohols were found to work.

If it is simply those little beads, physical manpulation alone is going to increase parentheral bioavailability.

I should add that the last time someone asked me about the TimerX system, it was Opana (40mg oxymorphone) and the person in question just bought a bottle of Everclear. Left on top of a radiator (or other warm surface), the tablets dissolved in around eight hours. After that, I don't know what they did. I didn't ask, they didn't tell but I assume they just poured the solution on to a pyrex dish and then carefully heated it until the ethanol had all been removed as a vapour (don't smoke around it - I'm not joking).

Yea I had two -- the girl I was with insisted to try and shoot hers (didn't work at all -clueless) I just drank the solution after about 3 days and there were still some gel clots in there. Alcohol would have been better I am sure. (But I ended up blacking out and getting rolled anyways so I'm sure alcohol would not have helped).

I am behind and 4dqsar is someone to believe.

 

[4DQSAR]

I am behind and 4dqsar is someone to believe.

Don't trust me - I'm only telling you of the limited research I undertood and a random explaining what they did with the 'abuse resistant' Opana tablets (the white octagons).

I SUSPECT in that case, the seperated active was consumed via a parentheral route because I recall that the one pill was being shared by three people.

It's odd that almost nobody on BL has ever come across Opana. I guess that's just me getting old, but what I DO know is that hydromorphone was considered as a VERY poor alternative. The usual comment was 'great rush, no legs', or words to that effect.

We don't use oxymorphone in the UK and even hydromorphone is rare. The truth is that neither has much clinical advantage over simple morphine and both carry the HUGE risk of the low oral bioavailability making them attractive to those prepared to (mis)use them by application of parentheral administration.

What you want is an opioid that is MORE active orally than it is by any other route - which is why I assume oxycodone IS used.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

ehhh I gotta trust you lol you can read studies I can't! haha I have had opana's and it was the same deal. Could snort them after a high fat meal and hope for the best but it was a giant oversell --- I remember drooling over oxymorphone for awhile -- by the time it hit market it was BS TimeRX over $1 a mg -- not worth the hassle.

Hydromorphone however use to always be IR and I would take that over "Heroin" fent/nitrazenes/xylazine any day. I agree morphine has more legs and is a better high --- they hydromorphone rush is great, a h-morphone Diacetyl/cocaine mix use to be the best shot possible (IMPO) but times change.

 

[Dextro .45]

The only Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) formulation I desire is from Sandoz Pharmaceuticals Canada

….a tiny 10ml glass bottle labeled Hydromorphone FORTE 1,000mg / 10ml (100mg per ml)

This small little 10ml glass bottle is soooo tiny you could have it comfortably in your front pocket, with an entire gram of pure HM. A single 1ml insulin syringe holds 100mg of Dilaudid lol, my lord.

Not some extracted crushed tablet bullshit…..but genuine Pharma Dilaudid 1,000mg intended for IV/IM/SC administration in a small 10ml glass bottle

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Damn I thought the 1L 1mg/ml bottles were good. 100/ml -- never had a solution I would have to dilute before. (maybe a couple I should have).

As you are prolly aware people use to backload (DONT ITS HORRIBLE) the old funny shaped 8 mg's -- filter they drew up clean -- not that clean obviously. Wish I saw one of those around the hospital lol

 

[4DQSAR]

I do not and never will understand why so many nations still use hydromorphone as their DLR for pain. Hydromorphone - a medication we know only has around 20% oral bioavailability.

In a hospital, it makes sense. As tablets, it does not.

 

[Time2Fly120]

ehhh I gotta trust you lol you can read studies I can't! haha I have had opana's and it was the same deal. Could snort them after a high fat meal and hope for the best but it was a giant oversell --- I remember drooling over oxymorphone for awhile -- by the time it hit market it was BS TimeRX over $1 a mg -- not worth the hassle.

Hydromorphone however use to always be IR and I would take that over "Heroin" fent/nitrazenes/xylazine any day. I agree morphine has more legs and is a better high --- they hydromorphone rush is great, a h-morphone Diacetyl/cocaine mix use to be the best shot possible (IMPO) but times change.

Herion would at least not have you needing another dose in 4-6hrs but yep. If you want to live that life. Be safe.

 

[Time2Fly120]

You nailed it

The ones I wound up being prescribed are large-ish yellow tablets (Trigen Labs, 6mg.) So I started by using a wet paper towel to wipe off the yellow coating. What was underneath was two layers: one was dark grey and the other white.
I remembered reading elsewhere in the forums about Exalgo tablets and that was the exact appearance described. The user had explained about administering the active side (white-colored) buccally, but I prefer to insufflate for my ROA.
Under the yellow coating that I'd wiped off, the tablet was encased in a thick-ish waxy/plastic-y substance. I used a razor blade to slice the tablet in half, my understanding is that the grey-colored half is inactive ingredients, so I tossed that.
I carefully peeled the waxy/plastic-y coating away from the remaining white-colored half with my thumbnail. I then crushed the white half and sniffed it.
It didn't really deliver a high, but I typically just use my ER meds to avoid WD while I stretch out the time between days I allow myself to use more of the IR for a reliable high anyway. (Like, I'll let myself use a higher IR dose every 3rd or 4th day, and then use a lower dose of the ER in between to maintain a reasonable tolerance level and to make sure I don't run out early.)
Just wanting to clarify that the grey half is *for sure* unusable so I'm not wasting meds? Also wondering if there is a more effective way to remove that waxy coating instead of the tedious task of peeling it off with my nails?
What I used instranasally did seem to turn a bit gooey in my nose (same as the old Opana ERs and the morphine ERs I'd been prescribed prior,) but they did actually seem to work on the pain even if they didn't provide the usual Dilaudid rush.
I appreciate everyone's thorough responses even if they weren't applicable in this case. And thanks in advance if anyone has any further information/advice about this specific manufacturer.

 

[Time2Fly120]

HydroMorph-Contin yellow capsule 18mg with tiny white beads inside ?

Empty beads in thick whiskey glass, add HOT water, just half a shot glass or less so beads are still a mm under water so you can use the handle of stout butter knife to light tap beads until all pulverized/crushed leaving a milky water soluble……add orange juice and drink…..turned XR into IR

Or place ziplock baggy over cup, punch knife handle through bag and tap dry beads into powder for a clean powder for IR administration

I use a pharmaceutical glass mortar & pestal to pulverize tablets into fine powder

No this is not the same but could have the same "dilution method" for and IR.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Herion would at least not have you needing another dose in 4-6hrs but yep. If you want to live that life. Be safe.

Hydromorph don't last as long as heroin or morphine -- and I dont I quit that shit in 15'16' when it was all hit with fent. Damn shame

 

[Dextro .45]

Interesting…..there many, may, may esters of Morphine that have been synthesized

Let’s take Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) ……after 1914 the Harrison Narcotics Tax bullshit or whatever it’s called scheduled & regulated all these analogs and esters to controlled substances

There is ONE compound the beats the rest…..it’s actually SUPER HEROIN

it’s more potent, hits faster & harder, and to top it off……last much longer. It was licensed and had a trade name and is STILL legally licensed but rarely used (ONLY in Germany) when a rapid acting potent opioid is required with a longer duration of action than Diamorphine.

Damn…..having 10,000 grams of pure API compounding powder lol……along with Diacetylmorphine or coarse, and Eukadol (Oxycodone) most euphoric opioid on planet earth, and 1,000 injectable 10ml vials of HM 1,000mg/10ml all stored in a dark, dry, cold as Fck secure basement cellar for long term storage. Id also have a 100kg (220 lbs) large drum of Methadone HCL powder ……just in my opioid section.

Then all the benzodiazepine & dopaminergic stimulant compounds, both branded tablets in sealed bottles and large containers of pure API compounding powder for my customized Brompton Cocktails

All therapeutic personal use……no illicit distribution causing potential OD situations to rise

Safely first

Diacetyldihydromorphine (also known as Paralaudin, dihydroheroin, acetylmorphinol) is a potent opiate derivative developed in Germany in 1928 which is rarely used in some countries for the treatment of severe pain such as that caused by terminal cancer, as another form of diacetylmorphine (also commonly known as Heroin). Diacetyldihydromorphine is fast-acting and longer-lasting than diamorphine, with a duration of action of around 4–7 hours.

 

[4DQSAR]

I believe diacetyldihydromorphine is only around M in terms of potency. My guess would be that the 6 acetyl will be hydrolized at a different rate because the olefinic double-bond in the C ring isn't present.

I've mused on the fact that isocodine and isomorphine are reckoned to be around x4 the potency of their epimers. But I don't know if acetylation would then further alter the potency. I know in places like New Zealand that if a 'cook' cannot access an appropriate agent to esterify morphine, morphine hydrochloride is reckoned by some to feel akin to around half way between MS and diamorphine. Lower MW would explain some of that, but it seems so niche that it's impossible to really know from reading.

BUT if isomorphine is four times more potent that morphine, finding an easier way to invert that stereocenter WOULD be interesting. It appears they were initially developed in Germany but US Patent 2774762 'DHYDROSOCODENE' might offer interesting prospects for the determined researcher. Aluminium isopropoxide isn't the friendliest reagent but compared with DEAD and Ph3P, it may be simpler. As long as unreacted material is the only impurity, it's not such a problem.

 

[Time2Fly120]

Hydromorph don't last as long as heroin or morphine -- and I dont I quit that shit in 15'16' when it was all hit with fent. Damn shame

Smart and Congratulations. Got any Stregth, Experience, or Hope your willing to share with us all. Are you saying you did Hydromorphone when you were 15-16 yrs old or in 2015-2016? Thank God you stopped when you did.

That same time I knew I would be asked for a divorce if I had told her I need rehab. She still didn't know something was up as I was functunal on Oxy. Well when you stopped I was getting blues and one day I heard a customer of the same source was turning blue on the floor of the convince store and the ambulance was called. I'm here in Miami Fl. It was my dealers fault for actually hanging a bad UA sample and could have just gone the next week as she didn't take them. Anyways I crushed one then went to her and said wtf is this shit. "I don't know its new" I got em from my pos brother. Playing dumb with literal death in her pocket. So I did what seemed resonable research drug bust Miami Dea and sure enough, 10,000 m30 fentpills. Range of dose from non to enough to kill 8 people. I over sniffed and thought a half would be fine I was doing 3 at a time (fucking hole in pocket). It didn't stop me. I woke up and did it again. Same result od. Woke up bent over face first into my center console, I thought I was cleaning and woke up soaking wet way after I would had I been on real oxy. It was hard to judge. I can't prove this but it seemed to have hot spots and from pill to pill would vary. I sniffed at the time. There was no good way to do street dope from the moment it hit the street and that was before Iso, Zylazine, Tranc, god only knows that was 3-5 yrs ago. I made it but I was only God that saved me. I had a bolt with an opening that I would tie around my waist because I was od'ing on almost any dose. I'll never forget when I got it I was warned "It hasn't been cut yet" I figured a 1/3rd my usual was fine nope less nope ever time the fucking floor till the last time, I believe around 8 hours.

Woke up like a pretzel took me 2 hours to get myself sitting on the floor. I feel face first off the toilet in a small space the my head must had hit the wall then the floor. I knew something wasn't right. The feeling in my legs was not coming back I could not move them. I got compartment syndrom from loss of circulation. They had to remove the dead tissue and I barley have but a bone below the knee and my foot that is stuck. Have not been able to move it for 5 years. Its not even so the presure hits right behind my pinky toe the size of a nickle instead of evenly dispersed. Its really bad out there. During covid the Cartels were putting Fent into Meth which was crazy fucking cheap. I could buy a qp for 800 about the same price for weed in Austin if you don't know anyone. I had a friend that didn't know what was wrong and I told him months before when it wasn't crystalizing the same it would be clumpy and milky and fuck your pipe up. Sometimes it would turn black it was ovious shit changed well didn't stop him. I had to break it to him and told him if he wants to see if im right I'll give him just a few grains and see if his ovious W/D's would stop. I was careful it took a f few time but each time he would get a bit better. Yeah he was fucking livid pissed as he hated opiods and was a complete sex addict that loved getting his bird sucked fucked you name it if he was on meth which was always he was trying to stick his dick in the closest girl to him and to him he would pull it off. Not quality but he was having his version of fun where mine was suicidal looking back.

Be safe out there guys and girls. God Bless us all especially our USA Military, the people of Israel, Citizens feel victim to an evil dictatorship with extream Islamic views and vowed to Kill us ALL. There are plenty of good people over there I don't hear anyone talking about them except for "they need to raise up". This whole ops Is a Win Win for US and Iran. God Bless us all ><>

 

[Time2Fly120]

^This checks out with my last knowledge. Which was the new Oxycontin 'timerx' if I recall --- Ended up soaking them in Pepsi and lemon juice for like 3 days before they finally ungelled.

Did you ever use Hydromorphone ER?

 

[Dextro .45]

Sandoz Canada USP Pharmaceuticals
Hydromorphone HP FORT 10ml glass vial
1,000mg / 10 ml glass vial (100mg HM / per 1ml)

a PROPER Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) HP FORT 10ml glass vial
IM/IV/SC Injections

…..imagin loading up half a 1ml syringe, that’s 50mg of Dilaudid a HEAVY dose