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  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

Bromocriptine again!

polymath said:
Hehe, I wonder what negrogesic was on when he wrote those messages...

Jamshyd, look at this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7128188



The doses used in that experiment were a lot higher than what you are about to take, and the nausea caused by the treatment wasn't severe.
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Thanks for sharing, definitely makes me a bit more confident here!

negrogesic said:
I was drunk on technical grade ethanol (yes, 100% ethanol, with ice its still hurts but is bearable). I actually ended up vomiting after, which is very rare for me (i think it was because of taking it with a large amout of a ZMA supplement. Hey at least i'm honest. For better or worse this computer like smart phone (cost as much as a computer, 1.5 ghz, overally complicated!), makes me constantly "wired in" with good but imperfect voice recognition which worsens my superfluous/verbose responses.
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Don't worry, you're funny (in a good way) and even oddly charming =D.

Btw, I have in fact listened to Schubert's Death of the Maiden when you mentioned it to me a long time ago. I thought it was good, but I also figured you see a lot more in it than I do as I lack the musical training that you seem to have..? In a way similar to how Shulgin makes several analogies to music in PiHKAL that I simply don't get :).

Back to the point: jamshyd, have you tried selegine or even nardil?
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Tried selegiline on several occasions, and found it fickle at best. It is usually characterized by feeling baseline or slightly-nice, until "triggered" (last time by a glass of white wine, with as little as 2.5mg) to produce some really nasty physical effects (hypertension and overheating).

How severe is the anhedonia?
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Even in the best of my moods, I still feel an element in my pro-creactive faculty somehow "broken" the same way it was broken after the GHB but not broken before it. (And enhanced insanely by it).

Is it accompanied with an other psychiatric symptoms or pre-existing comorbs?
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I am diagnosed with Depression as well as ADD. The depression, be it uni- or bi-polar, is cured perfectly if I use K responsibly.

My psychiatrist recently ruled out bipolar and proposed fibromiyalgia, for which I am waiting to be checked by a specialist with a very long waiting list.

Basically i need more info to properally answer your question. Have you ever tried mirtazapine........personally i find it superior to odansetron, which you are correct, is primarily a 5-HT antagonist (5-HT3 etc).
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Never tried Mirtazepine, and probably never will ;).

Final questions, what is your current toxicology profile (aka.....what are you 'taking')? Aside from the toxic psychosis, do you currently experience any psychosis (specifically, auditory, visual, paranoid, delusional or any inability to perceive/differentiate 'reality etc'). In theory to answer that question would rule out psychotic disorders, but in practice it does not (ex, I have seen patients with severe schizophrenia discount or even admit that they are sick).
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Never had psychosis before, and never after, the three episodes that happened in the summer of '07. At that time, I was on 200 or so mgs of dexedrine and 100 or so mg of bromazepam, maintained for several months without breaks, with questionable things like pentazocine thrown in the mix occasionally for good measure. And in ALL three times, I caught myself losing control and actually remedied it before it got out of hand, once by stopping the drugs and forcing sleep, once by taking an antipsychotic, and the last time, having neither, resorted to riding it out with breath-control (pranayama). To me, the ability to spot one's self at the onset of psychosis and working on fixing it is THE sign of mental tenacity.

These days the ONLY recreational drugs I use are Ketamine and occasional adderall (prescribed).

Right now I am not taking any reacreational drugs, and am only on the things mentioned in my second post in this thread, namely hydergine, adrafinil, and gabapentin (the latter RXed).

negrogesic said:
Oh, and while I clinically I cannot recommend due to safety issues, personally I have found single high doses of an NMDA-ant like ketamine (IV not IM, but this is very dangerous and I cannot in good conscience advocate IV ketamine, this could technically result in fatalities). While I did it repeatedly (i don’t like the psychedelic element of IM, IV gets me high with much less psychotomim). It can be done safely with an experienced "sitter", but i am reckless with my own health (and very cautious with the health of others....go figure).

Point is, a single high dose (borderline anesthetic) of ketamine or nitrous oxide (do not self-administer in continuous infusion, that is even more dangerous) has, subjectively, significantly reduced anhedonia, but there is a catch.....the effect is short-lived, in my experience, lasting 3-12 days. I prefer nitrous oxide induction, but I must INSIST against this due to danger (even though i have the proper equipment, with timers and sensible O2 ratios, this is still very reckless done alone).

I recall you had a love affair of sorts with ketamine, so this may not be an option/relevant. Just an idea.
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Ya' think?

;) <3

The K works like magic for my depression, but does nothing for my anhedonia, which seems to be libido-tied. Since we're using Freudian language, I might as well say that my anhedonia has to do with a propensity to be on the thanatic-side of the thanatos-eros continuum... if that makes any sense...
 
Jamshyd said:
Oh, and I forgot to mention an important detail: this is being taken rectally. Perhaps this has to do with the relative lack of nausea?
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yes, route of administration makes all the difference with bromocriptine. the person i saw take bromocriptine orally had physical effects so bad i called the hospital and asked about bringing the person in. the RN who wrote the script to begin with said to try taking it rectally. the next dose was done rectally... low and behold... the subject didn't report any problems at all. it was a night and day difference. still, nothing worthwhile to report back in terms of positive effects, etc.
 
this is being taken rectally
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How did I over see that........back that ass up (literally and figuratively)....I've gotta protest on face value (meaning I know I may be wrong). I don't need to tell you that its not especially orally active.....I realize your doses are small etc, but rectal administration is not a good idea (significant changes in blood levels....and just PP; plus, there are serious changes in activity, p-kin etc etc).

Honestly, I don't know the most about the subjective, but I admit I do not like using d-ag's unless truly necessary. Ever heard of the quin alkaloid (forgot what plant, im not a fucking encyclopaedia as I like to believe)...... pukateine (I can't make this shit up, look it up if you don't already know)? Hilarious compound but I wouldnt go near it. Oh that reminds me, have you ever tried horned poppy or glaucine, and if so how did you respond?

I am sure (well not entirely) you have tried "kanna", aka s-tort (i am abbreviating that one merely because I do not how to spell it!), and if so I am curious as to your response. My point being, I believe it iacts as mild PDE4-inhibitor, how selectively or potent, I have no clue. Perhaps a selective PDE4-inhibitor would be efficacious, I honestly cant think of any that are used clinically in the US, but there are non-selective inhibitors for pulmonary disorders (probably wont do the trick, although maybe it could, that actually seems progressively off-label, even for me, and I am an off-label kind of guy).

But again, it would be very interesting to try a selective PDE4-in, as they have rather unique and mysterious pharmacological properties. But it might work in your case, part. if you are (aside from sides) favourably responding to the cycloset. But again, I cant think of one that is readily available, but I would consider it in your case, its obtainable im sure , youre a resourceful guy....Only thing I can think of is the 2-pyrol smart drugs (the most relevent one I can think of is carphedon aka phenyl-p).

RLS drugs like mirapex are interesting, and are used off-label. They also have among the most hilarious of side-effects (gambling, cross-dressing, wife-swapping etc)

Only thing close I can think of are Stream of consciousness

Note: Perhaps I should stop writing in a "stream of consciousness" manner....this voice to text makes it even worse (you guys are effectively "listening" to how I talk....somewhat weird, I know)
 
There wouldn't be, if it's 100% lab grade ethanol. Denatured (90-95 percent) alcohol can have it, though.

You're forgetting that big whacks of alcohol and especially acetaldehyde are pretty good emetics.
 
I have used pramipexole a few time before for RLS and to control prolactin on steroid cycles. I really hate it. Very dose sensitive - going 25% over my common dose had me waking up in the middle of the night with a ridiculous headace throwing up most of my body weight. I have never felt physically worse in my life. Otherwise, on a lowish dose I get severe lethargy and mild depression. Ondansetron does little for the nausea and I wont use domperidone because that induces RLS episodes.
I never noticed any change in sex drive but I've also never used it for more than 3 weeks (tapered) because of the side effects. Remember that most of the dopamine autoreceptors are D2 so these drugs will downregulate the dopaminergic pathway very quickly. This means that most of the benefits of these drugs will only come a few weeks after you start them and also that there will be some kind of rebound if you randomly stop them.
Bromocriptine is not as selective for D2 and D3 as pramipexole though so maybe it will help you by some other mode of action.
 
negrogesic said:
How did I over see that........back that ass up (literally and figuratively)....I've gotta protest on face value (meaning I know I may be wrong). I don't need to tell you that its not especially orally active.....I realize your doses are small etc, but rectal administration is not a good idea (significant changes in blood levels....and just PP; plus, there are serious changes in activity, p-kin etc etc).

Honestly, I don't know the most about the subjective, but I admit I do not like using d-ag's unless truly necessary. Ever heard of the quin alkaloid (forgot what plant, im not a fucking encyclopaedia as I like to believe)...... pukateine (I can't make this shit up, look it up if you don't already know)? Hilarious compound but I wouldnt go near it. Oh that reminds me, have you ever tried horned poppy or glaucine, and if so how did you respond?

I am sure (well not entirely) you have tried "kanna", aka s-tort (i am abbreviating that one merely because I do not how to spell it!), and if so I am curious as to your response. My point being, I believe it iacts as mild PDE4-inhibitor, how selectively or potent, I have no clue. Perhaps a selective PDE4-inhibitor would be efficacious, I honestly cant think of any that are used clinically in the US, but there are non-selective inhibitors for pulmonary disorders (probably wont do the trick, although maybe it could, that actually seems progressively off-label, even for me, and I am an off-label kind of guy).

But again, it would be very interesting to try a selective PDE4-in, as they have rather unique and mysterious pharmacological properties. But it might work in your case, part. if you are (aside from sides) favourably responding to the cycloset. But again, I cant think of one that is readily available, but I would consider it in your case, its obtainable im sure , youre a resourceful guy....Only thing I can think of is the 2-pyrol smart drugs (the most relevent one I can think of is carphedon aka phenyl-p).

RLS drugs like mirapex are interesting, and are used off-label. They also have among the most hilarious of side-effects (gambling, cross-dressing, wife-swapping etc)

Only thing close I can think of are Stream of consciousness

Note: Perhaps I should stop writing in a "stream of consciousness" manner....this voice to text makes it even worse (you guys are effectively "listening" to how I talk....somewhat weird, I know)
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negrogesic do I know you from another forum? Either that or someone else uses your profile pic.
 
Day 2 of 1.25 (rectally) once a day before bed (total days on bromo: 4).

This is making me feel lethargic, more combattive (definitely swear a fuckload more), and horny, but too lazy to find someone to practice on... I am also getting morning wood, which isn't usual. I am also vaguely sea-sick, but nothing serious.

Um... I guess this stuff turns you into a sailor...?

Will update more/answer questions when I'm off work...
 
I have concluded that this experiment is best terminated.

It appears that the primary effect of this substance is lethargy.

Lethargy is absolutely the last thing I need, as I am prone to occasional "switch offs" which remain unexplained. I personally attribute them to hypoxia due to to poor fitness. I think I only managed to pass through my work-day thanks to copious amounts of caffeine and adrafinil throughout the day.

I must say though, it is a shame that the next-day effects are so shitty... it seems I get a definite mood-lift directly after dosing...

This is doing nothing worthwhile for me, and if anything it seems to be exasperating the amp. crash.

Shit, this stuff is powerful... I got through 5 days on just 1.5 pills. If you decide to try it, BE CAREFUL WITH DOSING!
 
Yeah dopamine agonist will cause lethargy, apathy and anhedonia by shifting balance to tonic dopaminergic firing instead of phasic.
 
Nausea with bromocripine is most likely due to dopaminergic activity in the CTZ (chemoreceptor trigger zone aka vomit central). It's why opiates cause nausea and why rapid admin of amphetamine, cocaine can cause nausea as well. Ojnly things that will stop it are dopamine antagonists like antipsychotics/metaclopromide or a non specific antinauseant like cannabis/THC
 
Maybe the solution for the anhedonia isn't more self-medication but less? Have you considered detoxing for a while and seeing where that takes you? Maybe I am totally judging the situation wrong, but it is important to know how you feel at baseline.
Considering the daily regimen you say you take, concomitant with things like adderall and various recreational drugs, I don't know which ones you take now and how regular but you might not be allowing yourself to return to baseline.

Do you have reasons to believe that the anhedonia is due to chemical imbalance and does it respond best to dopaminergics or something else. What about memantine, isn't that a better idea, or perhaps you have tried it already?

I have experimented with nootropics and things like that myself, some of them I still take now and then but no regimens anymore. I have discovered that you need to adjust the doses very carefully and sometimes you are taking too much or too little and it is counterproductive. The more complex the combination is the more difficult it is to readjust, some doses may have to be lowered or increased due to interactions. And I think that if you make errors along the way which is not that strange since you have to learn as you go along, you may exhaust your CNS in several ways.

Maybe this is obvious to you, and you are just not planning on changing things in a way like this - by that I mean perhaps you do not want to cure your anhedonia but attack the symptoms. Of course that is less than ideal but the world is not ideal. In that case I can understand better if you turn to alternative possibilities.
 
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