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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

๐Ÿ’‚โ€โ™‚๏ธ UK ๐Ÿ’‚โ€โ™‚๏ธ British government considering raising ketamine classification to class A

Don't be stupid UK! Ketamine HCL of arylcyclohexylamines has a very favorable therapeutic index between recreational and dangerous doses IM and orally.

I am ChatGPT, an AI language model designed for providing information and assistance. Based on available data, the lethal dose (LD50) of pharmaceutically pure racemic ketamine HCl in humans is not precisely established but is estimated from animal studies. In rats, the LD50 is ~50-100 mg/kg IM and ~600 mg/kg orally, suggesting significantly lower bioavailability when taken orally. Clinically, ketamine is used at 0.1โ€“0.5 mg/kg IM for analgesia and 50โ€“200 mg oral lozenges for pain or depression therapy. This suggests a therapeutic index of roughly 100-fold or more between common therapeutic doses and estimated lethal doses, although individual sensitivity varies due to metabolism, tolerance, and other factors.

The lowest recorded fatal dose of ketamine in reasonably healthy, nonallergic individuals varies, but case reports suggest deaths have occurred with doses as low as 11 mg/kg intravenously or 600โ€“900 mg orally, though this is rare. Fatality is typically due to respiratory depression, aspiration, or cardiovascular complications, often in combination with other substances. Ketamine alone has a relatively high safety margin, with lethal doses usually exceeding 20 mg/kg IV in humans, but individual susceptibility varies.
 
The 2016 PSA was a doozy alright.

Is this what you're talking about?

I remember hearing about something similar a while ago but I can't quite recall the details. It might have been one of those segments with Hamilton Morris, I think he was interviewing a research chemical manufacturer and they were talking about developing safer alternatives to ethanol but for the life of me I can't remember who it was. I'll see if I can find it later.

Yes - we discovered that alcohol primarily acts on the a1 and a5 subunits and that most of the negative effects of ethanol were a1 mediated while the positive effects were a5 mediated.

We did try it and indeed a proper study was carried out.

All I can tell you is that every single person who sampled pyeyzolam wanted to know where to buy it and said that they prefered it to alcohol. But we couldn't sell it - there is no legal mechanism to allow a novel psychoactive to be appropriatley safety tested and brought to market.

That's why I essentially just tell people what it is. It cost a lot to develop but the PSA ended all research.
 
I'm sceptical of any drug that claims to be better than alcohol, nothing seems to hit the same parts of the brain , but I'd be willing to give it a go

Just give the synth instructions to some European RC dealer
 
I'm sceptical of any drug that claims to be better than alcohol, nothing seems to hit the same parts of the brain , but I'd be willing to give it a go

Just give the synth instructions to some European RC dealer

The thing is - it's quite difficult to make.

We used a pyrazolam as the precursor and used a coupling reaction to swap the 8-Br for an 8 -CHโ‰กCH.

Conditions need to be just right and it seems only very skilled chemists are able to make it work. We contracted out synthesis you see, but we were told how it was done.
 
This suggests a therapeutic index of roughly 100-fold or more between common therapeutic doses and estimated lethal doses
Lowest estimated lethal dose for ketamine was 678 mg for 70 kg person when I looked at it and highest was 42 g. Yeah, estimations are all over the place. I did not really have in-depth analysis about what those estimations are based on.

Anyway, should not matter for most of us who are not putting under patients in daily life.
 
I just checked - it was a Sonogashira coupling.

Ketamine isn't a big killer but it has been responsible for a lot of people ending up in hospital. The term 'harm' is extremely slippery and unscientific, but it's the term used when deciding which class a drug is placed in (in theory).

But the truth is that it's largely political. As previously stated - moving it to class A is the easiest way politicians can be seen to being 'tough on drugs'.
 
I believe the term used is 'ham' when it comes to the classification of a drug. It's a purposefully vague term.

But in the end, I suspect it's more of a political move than anything else.
 
The British government has a long and proud history of ignoring virtually every recommendation made by the ACMD so regardless of what they come back with I expect that this'll be happening sooner rather than later.
Of course illegal drug use is up. The UK government wants to ban anything other than alcohol. Too avoid the dreadful possibility that somewhere, someone is feeling good, in the much scaled back empire.
 
there is no legal mechanism to allow a novel psychoactive to be appropriatley safety tested and brought to market.
This is what I really cannot understand regarding what Nutt is trying to do?

If his product is psychoactive then it won't be legal, and if it's not psychoactive then what is the point of it? And who will waste their money on a product that doesn't do anything?

The whole thing makes absolutely no sense to me :?
 
I'm sceptical of any drug that claims to be better than alcohol, nothing seems to hit the same parts of the brain , but I'd be willing to give it a go
Obviously it's all subjective, and everyone's mileage may vary.

But for me GBL was so much better than alcohol, there was absolutely no comparison. Not really any noteable comedown or hangover effects either.
 
This is what I really cannot understand regarding what Nutt is trying to do?

If his product is psychoactive then it won't be legal, and if it's not psychoactive then what is the point of it? And who will waste their money on a product that doesn't do anything?

The whole thing makes absolutely no sense to me :?

He's managed to get venture capitalists who DON'T know (yet) that there is no way to market the stuff. Nutt is being less than honest to ensure he's got a well paid job for life. I'm sure a LOT of people at his level do such things.
 
Don't they put some of the money from the suits into other projects as well? If so it wouldn't be a complete waste of time.

I can't feel too bad for venture capitalists. So long as they haven't been lied to, due diligence and all that.
 
GHB/GBL are pretty close to alcohol with less of the negative effects, still very addictive though

I doubt anything very similar to alcohol would ever come without consequences, what goes up must come down
Just as addictive, 3 days bearable WD s with a little Benzo. ->GHB/ GBL.
Vs. 3 weeks hardcore WD with a mega dose of Benzo s, ->Alcohol.
that won t even take the edge off. Just put you out temporarily.

Alcohol is at least 10 times as bad, and toxic.
No match, WD Alcohol with GHB. Seems best inpatient.
 
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Cant understand this fucking labour govt being just as strict on drugs. It was labour who banned shrooms too the twats.
 
Keir is a masochist pig man who seems to get off on making everybody hate him.

Realistically, the class of a drug doesn't matter unless you're moving it. A lot of the time if the filth catch you with coke they'll just chuck it in the bin and send you on your way.
 
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