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Boycott Singapore - Van's unfair sentance

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UnSquare said:
Naw,
I was jus'
fuckin' 'round
an' throwin'
-{THR}-
back
the
same
line
I
got
the
other
day.

All in jest.
;)

You know I stay outta these threads...
...despite my psuedo,
I don't actually wanna participate
in circular arguments that arn't
gonna save that poor man's life.

PEACE--->OUT
;)
UnS

Wha? Did I miss something?
 
THR: I think it was where you attacked his post structure the other day.

even if they did let Van off the hook and just gave him jail time, how many other families would be absolutely shattered because their daughter/son has been executed for the same crime?
 
I lost someone I loved to the senseless act of murder. He was left to bleed to death, unable to call for help. Left to die alone. Before Ken's death, together he and I fought hard to have the death penalty abolished. It is ironic and very horrible that he died at the hands of someone very much like he was fighting for. Of course, we discussed the scenario of this happening to one of us or one of our family and therefore I was lucky enough to know Ken's spirit. I couldn't be with him at the moment he needed me the most, but because of the kind of man Ken was, I have learned I need to carry on with the fight we had started. This is what he would want and this is what we believe . . .

The death penalty is the ultimate form of revenge. How can we communicate the message "Killing is wrong!" by killing someone? Canada has proven again and again what a civilized country we are. We proved it in 1976 when we finally abolished the death penalty. We, as an intelligent nation, came to grips with the fact that killing human beings is not a deterrent. We, as people with a conscience, realized that an innocent person could be and has been killed by judicial murder. Once in a while, however, even in Canada, one or two very uneducated, ignorant politicians will try again to reinstate capital punishment. They play on the fears of people whenever an extremely horrendous crime is committed at which time they feel they are able to buy votes. These men must be stopped before we, as a country, revert back to the archaic practice of killing anyone who pisses us off.

Lets talk about some facts concerning the death penalty. Since the USA is our neighbour and is in the big business of killing people, the facts will be about them. As of the end of 1997, only 12 states did not have the death penalty; Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. This may be a coincidence, but out of all the states in the USA, these states are the most beautiful. Perhaps it's because they are not covered in blood. Right now Texas is the proud state bearing the name, "Murder Capital of the World" with 180 murders, however Virginia is trying to claim that title at 67 murders.

The United States executed 16 people in 1989. In 1997, the government saw fit to execute 74 people, and by the end of December 1999, 98 people were executed. This dramatic increase in executions makes us aware of how blood thirsty a country they are. Is the United States so confident in their justice system that they believe all of these people they murdered were guilty? Murder is wrong - no one has the right to kill another human being. When a state empowers itself to the level of playing God, they only set an example for would be killers. When a government kills a person in the name of justice, it puts itself on the same level as a murderer in devaluing human life. Simple point.

But the state is very humane when they kill someone. If the prisoner is to die by lethal injection, his arm is rubbed with alcohol before the injection. They don't want the murder victim to get an infection and drop dead before they are able to kill him. A few years back, in Oklahoma, authorities revived Robert Brecheen after a suicide attempt, pumped his stomach and cheerfully executed him a few hours later. John del Vecchio was given heart surgery twice in November of 1996, and then he was killed in December. You must wonder why the government goes to this extreme with a dead man. The answer is very simple. The prisoner will not be allowed in any way to take away the fun from the witnesses, who want to see him dead. Some politicians make their way into office by being bought by voters who ask only one thing in exchange - they want to witness an execution. These are some of the same people who are running your country and making decisions on your behalf. Scary, isn't it?



The "eye for an eye" theory has been applied by people who have misinterpreted it to their own advantage. The Old Testament talked about the death penalty, however it also called for many safeguards which made it rare and almost impossible to carry out. In the Old Testament, these are some of the crimes which required death; Murder, striking father or mother, kidnapping, cursing father or mother, harming a pregnant woman, knowingly owning a violent ox that kills someone (today it may be a pit bull), sorcery, bestiality, working on a Sabbath, adultery, human sacrifices, homosexuality, blaspheming the name of the Lord, false prophecy, worshipping false Gods, disobeying a priest, disobeying a parent, raping a betrothed young woman, and losing your virginity before marriage. How many of you would be alive? Would your President? In the New Testament, Jesus says, "Let one without sin cast the first stone." By saying this, He demands that one who places himself in the position to judge or one who executes must be 100% sinless. Christ died for all sinners, when he was hung on the cross. When He died, he showed us to love and to forgive those who harm us. His last words were, "Father, forgive them!". With His death he wiped out the Old Testament by clearly telling us that all life belongs to the Creator, and no one else has the right to take it.

Revenge brings no peace to the family of the victims. If the father of a murdered daughter enjoys seeing another human being put to death for that murder, does he not then put himself on the same level as the accused killer. Has he not killed in his heart? The victim's family needs to feel like their needs are being met. They need to feel vindicated and be able to express their anger. They have a right to as much information as possible about the case, and must feel like they are a part of the justice process. Closure is a very over used word, however how can a loved one find closure when in a death penalty case they are always needing to fight to get the accused killed. A feeling of helplessness and failure comes with having a sentencing set and not having it followed though. They need to be able to mourn their tremendous loss. The death penalty keeps the spotlight on the killer rather than the victim. Because a death penalty case goes on for many years the family must relive the tragedy over and over. If the convicted murderer was sentenced to "life without possibility of parole" (LWP) and if the victim's family could trust the system to keep the inmate behind bars, they could finally step back and mourn their loss. Victims families need to be heard, otherwise it is no surprise that they express and feel horrible anger, frustration and revenge, all of which stem from the complete helplessness they encounter. The danger with quick revenge is that an innocent person could be charged with the crime, and the real murderer would still be walking with his freedom. This is a frightening possibility that has happened many times. "
...
 
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keystroke said:
THR: I think it was where you attacked his post structure the other day.

Aah, right. Seems like is forever coming back to bite me :\
 
keystroke said:
even if they did let Van off the hook and just gave him jail time, how many other families would be absolutely shattered because their daughter/son has been executed for the same crime?

Keystroke: I highly doubt the majority of families who have had a relative killed by the death penalty, would wish that upon other people!

Sure, they'd be upset that their family member didn't get 'let off the death hook' as well... and they might even be angered. That, however, would only be due to an imbalance of fairness. I'm sure underneath all that, they'd feel relieved that yet another family didn't have to experience the pain they felt.

I'm sure they wouldn't be having a protest and run around with banners screaming "KILL HIM. YOU KILLED OURS"

Rather "A MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. WIPE THE DEATH PENALTY".
 
I have just spent the last 45 minutes of my life (and my lunch break) reading over this thread. And it's fucking sad!

keystroke said:
I have respect for human life too, I respect that 26,000 hits of heroin now wont be hitting the Australian streets, whilst it probably wont dent supply what it will do is at least stop a very small percentage of crime and will probably save a few more lives.

I don't follow any of your logic here. If as you assume it won't affect supply (which it won't) how will it save lifes? Education will save lifes. Further more the heroin has been stopped. It is not coming to Australia whether they hang Van or not.

keystroke said:
well hopefully this is a deterant to any other idiot Australians thinking of earning quick cash by smuggling drugs through Asia.

No it won't. Anyone who has done any reading on capital punishment knows that it does not deter crime anymore than applicable jail sentences. Further more since Singapore brought in the death penalty for trafficking herion in the mid 1970's there has been no decrease in convicted traffickers. It has gone up fractionally.

keystroke said:
you seemed to of completely missed my post where I've stated that if I get caught with drugs, I will comply with whatever punishment deemed necessary by the law enforcement. America has capital punishment, why isn't there a "boycott america" thread?

Last I knew they hadn't tried to execute any Australian citizens.


I feel sincerely sadden for those who believe that the death penalty is an acceptable punishment, for anything anywhere.

The UN estimates the world illegal drug trade is worth about $400 billion annually. That is relative to the world oil trade. If you think the hanging of one tiny little pawn is going to make any difference, whether it be by affecting supply or as deterrent you are very sadly mistaken.

If for example you wanted to stop the world oil trade, this would be like hanging a uni student who does the graveyard shift at your local Shell servo on weekends over the holidays. 8(

It is a tragic waste of human life; it's as simple as that.

For those interested tomorrow night (Thursday) there will be a silent candle lit walk to Queen Victoria Gardens starting at 7.30pm from Federation Square in Melbourne in protest of the to be execution of Van Nguyen. Other capitals also have walks organised. More details.
 
^^ Very true. But then again, Keystroke does seem to have a backward opinion on the whole situation - perhaps he does have that sort of spite within him.

(Was in reply to Doppelganger)
 
keystroke said:
how is it backwards to know that he fucked up?

Van obviously cared very little about his life to risk it like this...

People risks their lives every day doing various things. It doesn't mean they don't care about their life - quite often they just don't think of the consequences. They don't fully understand the risk. And until something like this happens, they don't truly understand the value of their live. That is why he deserves a second chance - not be be murdered.
 
:\
keystroke said:
what does Van Nguyen's execution and friday's cricket match have in common?

at one point during the day it will both be one down, nine to go.

If that was a joke it nearly made me dry retch my wheatie-bix.:\

And thats an impossible thing to do.
 
The Australian Greens will seek the support of the Senate today to push the government to do all it can to extradite death row inmate Nguyen Tuong Van.

Greens senator Kerry Nettle will move a motion calling on the government to take every action possible to extradite Nguyen from Singapore before he is hanged on Friday morning.

Senator Nettle told reporters she had legal advice from lawyer Tim Robertson that there was a loophole in Singapore's extradition laws that could possibly allow Nguyen to return to Australia.

The move would require Australia to charge the convicted drug trafficker with conspiracy to import heroin as a grounds for extradition.

The NSW Council for Civil Liberties has written to the Australian Federal Police asking for Nguyen to be charged with this crime urgently, allowing the extradition process to begin.

Senator Nettle said the government had argued against extradition proceedings because it could not charge Nguyen with importing heroin.

"That's why the request from the Council for Civil Liberties is to charge him with conspiracy to import heroin, because it's a separate charge so the double jeopardy doesn't come into play," she said.

"The advice is ... that this is an avenue the government should try.

"When we've got legal advice from a variety of sources .... I think it is fair for the government to try that possibility."

Senator Nettle said if the government began extradition proceedings then it could apply for a stay of Nguyen's execution.

Last night, Justice Minister Chris Ellison said he had responded to Mr Robertson's proposal about extradition for Nguyen, an issue which had been examined at length.

"A primary reason as to why extradition is not a viable option in this case is because of the legal principle of double jeopardy," he said.

"Mr Nguyen cannot be prosecuted in Australia for the same crime he committed in Singapore.

"Further, the Australian Federal Police has advised it has no information linking Mr Nguyen to any other criminal activity for which he could be prosecuted in Australia.

"Australia has no basis on which to make an extradition request for Mr Nguyen, irrespective of any argument about the interpretation of Singapore laws."
...
 
keystroke said:
it's a bit late for them hippies to try and score points with voters now...

like, oh my god, like, whatever. :p :)

But seriously. Id much rather be governed by people who actually stand up for human rights rather then our current incumbant leaders. If you think the Green party is full of "hippies", booooyyyy you are so fucking wrong. Just because you care about stuff dosnt mean you sit around with a guitar smoking joint after joint listening to the greatful dead.
 
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