Boycott Singapore - Van's unfair sentance

[endlesseulogy]

What about mental health issues? Not stirring, honestly don't know the answer. Eg. How drug use can trigger schizophrenia or other mental illnesses in some people. If heroin was completely legalised and was capable of triggering these illnesses, and an individual had little willpower, tried it out, and eventually grew a dependence on it.. which in turn triggered the mental illness.. well you see why the whole thing might not be classified as 'beautiful irony'.

Trigger of a "mental illness"? It has never been proven on any scale that ANY psychoactive substance can trigger ANY "mental illness".. Psychopharmacology is so iffy and full of heresay that there is no way of telling. Its been intimated that LSD can trigger mental illnes, but also been proven that it can cure it..Infact if you did a search of the literature on LSD you will find more medical evidence supporting it rather then literature against it. Whos right whos wrong? Cannabis has been intimated to cause anxiety, but it can also help anxiety. Im convinced drug effects on the psyche are totally reliant on intent and set and setting.

I would also go as far as saying psychoanalytical "science" in general is antiquated does not answer many of life's questions..



but thats another story.

 

[KemicalBurn]

So while you self-righteously condemn this young man to death, just remember that there are a lot of people out there who would pass judgement on your stupid actions in the same way.

If something happens with my use, and i fuck up, then do you want to know who i'll blame? Myself.

Its a little thing i like to call "taking responsiblity for my actions"

 

[silvia saint]

wow. great discussion. i'll have to let kb insult my mediocre intelligence more often

What gives you the right to tell another country how they should run things? I think its safe to assume youve never lived there, so by taking that stance you're now aligning yourself with Bush.

now many might find something flawed in the following but i looked it up in a dictionary

there is a difference between voicing my opinion and forcing it on others through violence or the threat of. my right to do so? the fact i exist. i think therefore i am, or something along those lines i'm full of faults and contradictions, it's something i struggle with everyday, but i don't hear "god" telling me to invade other nations. just thought i'd clear that one up.

on the cigarettes issue...

keej - i did put a few words in your mouth, i thought i'd take advantage of your post to push my message. sorry for that.

it's already been debated, the distinction between cigarettes and smack, and i would only be reiterating what others have said in my defence of making the link. i will just say this though. everyone knows using either drug on a regular basis for a long period of time will more than likely end up in death for the user. taking this into consideration, that moronic fame seeking old fuck mp (i forget his name thankfully) who came out in support of killing Nguyen surely is going to start a petition calling for the death of phillip morris and associates, not to mention his own government including himself, and it would be justified under his logic that they profit from the suffering and death of others, just like Nguyen

on the mental health issue... many in the scientific field believe there is a link between cigarettes and mental health. they're just not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg. i know this same argument is applied to marijuana and mental illness, and i take side with those who believe it is a case of using the drug to seek relief (i have the right to from past experience), but you'd be surprised how many patients in psych wards chain smoke (cigarettes), and i mean chain smoke.

note to sierra (as was mentioned), for a social experiment try checking yourself into a psych ward for drug addiction, let me know how many unsuccessful attempts it takes. if a guy walking the streets ranting about how he is the son of god can't etc ...

 

[endlesseulogy]

note to sierra (as was mentioned), for a social experiment try checking yourself into a psych ward for drug addiction, let me know how many unsuccessful attempts it takes. if a guy walking the streets ranting about how he is the son of god can't etc ...

^^ Just like jesus.

 

[KemicalBurn]

there is a difference between voicing my opinion and forcing it on others through violence or the threat of. my right to do so? the fact i exist. i think therefore i am, or something along those lines i'm full of faults and contradictions, it's something i struggle with everyday, but i don't hear "god" telling me to invade other nations. just thought i'd clear that one up.

But you're essentially crying foul because their laws are stricter.."Hey hey hey! you cant kill that boy, why, thats not the australian way! omg - What would Bradman do?"

You cant come out and say "what theyre doing is wrong" because you dont live in that country. Im sketchy as to whether youve even visited the country, so you have no basis for comparison when the laws of a specific country are supposed to be representative of its people/culture.

and seeing as people like quoting Gandhi and other bleeding hearts throughout the ages, i'd like to share a little quote of my own (and yeah: its a personal fave)

"Yes i think he deserves to die, and i hope he burns in hell!"

~Samuel 'mutha-fucken' Jackson

its slightly paraphrased, but you get the point

 

[silvia saint]

Nguyen executioner revealed
By Alan Shadrake
28-10-2005
From: The Australian

Darshan Singh
Smiling executioner...Singapore's chief hangman Darshan Singh

The hangman who will execute Australian drug trafficker Van Tuong Nguyen in Singapore has been revealed as a semi-retired 73-year-old grandfather.
In a matter of weeks, Darshan Singh will place a rope around the 25-year-old's neck and say the words he has spoken to more than 850 condemned prisoners during his 46 years as Singapore's chief executioner.

"I am going to send you to a better place than this. God bless you."

Nguyen's hopes of escaping the gallows receded further yesterday when the Singaporean Government confirmed that it would not make an exception for the Australian.

Mr Singh has officially retired from the prison service but is called upon to carry out executions, for which he receives a fee of $S400 ($312).

Until now, his indentity has been a closely guarded secret in Singapore.

Officials rarely comment on capital punishment, which is carried out without publicity behind the walls of Changi prison.

But The Australian can reveal today that the 73-year-old grandfather, who lives in a modest, government-owned apartment near the border with Malaysia, has been asked to execute Nguyen unless the Singapore Government gives an unprecedented last-minute reprieve.

Mr Singh told The Australian yesterday that under the Official Secrets Act he was forbidden from speaking about his work.

A colleague and close friend, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told The Australian that Mr Singh wanted to give up his hangman's responsibilities and live quietly in retirement but the authorities were having trouble finding anyone to replace him.

"He tried to train two would-be hangmen to replace him, a Malaysian and a Chinese, both in the prison service," the colleague said.

"But when it came to pulling the lever for the real thing, they both froze and could not do it.

"The Chinese guy, a prison officer, became so distraught he walked out immediately and resigned from the prison service altogether."

Nguyen will meet Mr Singh a few days before he is executed and will be asked if he would like to donate his organs.

On the day before his execution, Mr Singh will lead him to a set of scales close to his death-row cell to weigh him.

Mr Singh will use the Official Table of Drops, published by the British Home Office in 1913, to calculate the correct length of rope for the hanging.

On the day of Nguyen's execution, Mr Singh will be picked up by a government vehicle and driven to the prison, arriving at 2am local time (0400 AEST) to prepare the gallows.

Shortly before 6am, he will handcuff Nguyen's hands behind his back and lead him on his final short walk to the gallows, just a few metres from the cell.

Mr Singh joined the British colonial prison service in the mid-1950s after arriving from Malaysia. When the long-established British hangman Mr Seymour retired, Singh, then 27, volunteered for the job. He was attracted by the bonus payment for executions.

Mr Singh is credited with being the only executioner in the world to single-handedly hang 18 men in one day -- three at a time.

They had been convicted of murdering four prison officers during a riot on the penal island of Pulau Senang in 1963.

He also hanged seven condemned men within 90 minutes a few years later. They had been convicted in what became known as the "gold bars murders", in which a merchant and two employees were killed during a robbery.

One of the most controversial executions in his career was the 1991 hanging of a young Filipina maid, Flor Contemplacion, who was convicted of the murder of a co-worker, Delia Maga, and her four-year-old son, on what many believed was shaky evidence.

He carries out the executions wearing simple casual clothes, often just a T-shirt, shorts, sports shoes and knee-length socks.

To mark his 500th hanging four years ago, four of his former colleagues turned up at his home to celebrate the event with a couple of bottles of Chivas Regal.

Mr Singh boasts that he has never botched an execution.

"Mr Seymour taught him just how long the drop should be according to weight and height and exactly where the knot should be placed at the back of the neck," his colleague said.

"Death has always come instantaneously and painlessly. In that split second, at precisely 6am, it's all over."

Mr Singh was an accomplished cricketer in his youth and was often opening bat.

"He is a keen soccer fan," his colleague said. "His favourite team is Manchester United. He watches all the English Premier League matches he can."

When his colleague asked him why he had stayed so long in such a gruesome job, he replied: "It's all I know. It has become my bread and butter."

"He also used to cane convicted criminals after training in this field," the colleague said.

"The pay then was 50cents per stroke. He could wield a cane as well as he could wield a cricket bat."

Mr Singh lives happily with his second wife and is close to their three adult adopted children.

His first wife left him years earlier because she could not accept what he did. He had kept it a secret from her for years.

Mr Singh reportedly spends time getting to know the condemned prisoners, especially those who do not receive visitors or religious support.

"He is a very kindly man and although it's his job to end their lives he does feel for them," his friend said. "Mr Singh tries to comfort them if they are completely alone in the world at such a horrible time."

 

[KemicalBurn]

Hey look over here SS! its the topic. why dont you come back here and finish arguing your points that are relevant to the discussion

 

[silvia saint]

But you're essentially crying foul because their laws are stricter.."Hey hey hey! you cant kill that boy, why, thats not the australian way! omg - What would Bradman do?"

You cant come out and say "what theyre doing is wrong" because you dont live in that country. Im sketchy as to whether youve even visited the country, so you have no basis for comparison when the laws of a specific country are supposed to be representative of its people/culture.

and seeing as people like quoting Gandhi and other bleeding hearts throughout the ages, i'd like to share a little quote of my own (and yeah: its a personal fave)

"Yes i think he deserves to die, and i hope he burns in hell!"

~Samuel 'mutha-fucken' Jackson

its slightly paraphrased, but you get the point

dude, i already said i don't agree with many of the laws of this country, yet here comes the nationalist shit again *yawn*. i can say what the fuck i want, what i believe, and i base what i believe on the fact i am a human being, not an australian. do i have to visit pakistan to form the opinion that the women there don't like being killed in "honour killings". twist that, it seems to get you harder than porn. and "like fuck" laws are representative of people/culture. they're representative of the ability of a few to fuck over/ brainwash the many.

 

[KemicalBurn]

and i suppose you could write better laws that provides (on the most part) peace?

you are a sheep in anarchist's clothing 8)

 

[muzby]

Hey look over here SS! its the topic. why dont you come back here and finish arguing your points that are relevant to the discussion

give him a break on that one dude.. that was actually an interesting (and chilling) read..

 

[plazma]

and i suppose you could write better laws

Its a kindergarten insult in internet clothing.

Seriously though. Laws don't tend to be entirely representitive of a country's population, so much as representitive of the powers that be which happen to hold sway in government at any point in time. I sure to fuck know that a great number of Australians would probably baulk at being told that the new proposed anti-terror laws were representitive of them.

And goddamn that article chills my fucking blood. Fuck I hope this doesn't happen.

-plaz out-

 

[KemicalBurn]

My comment stands. he's bitching about laws, "Be the change you wish to see" and all that..you gonna call Gandhi a pre-scooler too?

 

[KemicalBurn]

Seriously though. Laws don't tend to be entirely representitive of a country's population, so much as representitive of the powers that be which happen to hold sway in government at any point in time. I sure to fuck know that a great number of Australians would probably baulk at being told that the new proposed anti-terror laws were representitive of them.

Of course those laws are bullshit - the media wont even be allowed to speak against the government - or knowingly have a guest on their show whom they suspect will speak against the government without being charged with sedition.

 

[plazma]

I think its pretty academic as to whether Ghandi was a pre-schooler or not. But what I do know without talking too much shit is that it wouldn't actually take too many intelligent people to re-write the legal system into some semblence of fairness. That's the easy part. The problem is actually the fact that the entirety of the system is designed around NOT allowing this kind of change, and maintaining a secure and thus conservative foundation on which capitalism can be based.

-plaz out-

 

[endlesseulogy]

^^ Great post... in this era its obvious money comes before the implementation of fair and just laws. Before people come out and say "oh but its worse in 3rd world countries", its us europeans that caused that by installing corrupt governments plus atleast those countries dont put up a sheild of lies to shift public attention from the bleeding obvious.

Martin Luther king said a great thing about democracy. He said democracies give the illusion of freedom. They give you freedom in a box. Once you step outside that box and see what real freedom is about, the laws are in place to drag you back. Because if everyone was really free, they would see that life is 110% more then they thought it was before and capitalism would crumble.

Does this dictionary definiation of freedom at all resemble what we have?

The condition of being free of restraints.
Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.

Political independence.
Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: freedom from want.
The capacity to exercise choice; free will: We have the freedom to do as we please all afternoon.
Ease or facility of movement: loose sports clothing, giving the wearer freedom.
Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: the new freedom in movies and novels.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Van Truong is 25 year old kid, dumb by many standards, gullible to the highest extreme...back home in Australia im sure he would be just like you or I...he chose to run the drugs but he does not deserve to die....

This whole arguement is not abt drugs...we all know what he did was wrong and should be punished...its abt does the punishment fit the crime for which he committed?

Does Van not have a caring mother or a brother or friends...maybe he does not know you...but Im sure you know someone like him..25 years old, young, cocky...thinks they are invincible...foolish as he is, does he really have to pay with his life to prove a point?

All the people that say he deserves it...it is tragic that you all jump on the bandwagon off 'he knew what hes doing and if he is that dumb he deserves to die' Have we ALL not at some stage done something maybe not as foolish to that extreme but done something which was wrong? did you have to pay for that mistake with your life? Fuck the MP Tuckey for his crass comments obviously there will always be people that dont really give a toss till the person on trial is someone they know..

I emphathise with Vans situation, his mum I feel for....Singapore government although it is lawfull for them to execute this kid for this crime, they could also take a humanitarian approach and give him mercy...sometimes mercy will do more to prove a point than brute force itself...

 

[keej]

Trigger of a "mental illness"? It has never been proven on any scale that ANY psychoactive substance can trigger ANY "mental illness".. Psychopharmacology is so iffy and full of heresay that there is no way of telling. Its been intimated that LSD can trigger mental illnes, but also been proven that it can cure it..Infact if you did a search of the literature on LSD you will find more medical evidence supporting it rather then literature against it. Whos right whos wrong? Cannabis has been intimated to cause anxiety, but it can also help anxiety. Im convinced drug effects on the psyche are totally reliant on intent and set and setting.

I would also go as far as saying psychoanalytical "science" in general is antiquated does not answer many of life's questions..



but thats another story.

I honestly think you know fuck all about what triggers mental illnesses. If there's 'no way of telling', then it would be a ridiculous notion to put someones mental health at risk without conducting conclusive studies that gave the answers once and for all. Needless to say, I am certain of two cases where drugs have triggered cases of psychosis. For one person it was triggered by marijuana, and for another it was MDMA. It would be going far OT to explain the stories, but the fact is that while some people can handle their drugs, for others it sends them completely off the rails and literally breaks their mind. Repairing it is harder than you could imagine.

on the mental health issue... many in the scientific field believe there is a link between cigarettes and mental health. they're just not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg. i know this same argument is applied to marijuana and mental illness, and i take side with those who believe it is a case of using the drug to seek relief (i have the right to from past experience), but you'd be surprised how many patients in psych wards chain smoke (cigarettes), and i mean chain smoke.

note to sierra (as was mentioned), for a social experiment try checking yourself into a psych ward for drug addiction, let me know how many unsuccessful attempts it takes. if a guy walking the streets ranting about how he is the son of god can't etc ...

I've been in the unfortunate circumstance of having to visit someone close to me in mental institutions several times and at different facilities. The most common question asked is without a doubt "you got any ciggies?" They're manic about their smokes and absolutely churn through packets of them, so yeah I know what you're talking about.

Perhaps there is something of a link between cigarettes and mental illnesses, but we undoubtedly have nowhere near enough research done in the field of mental illness and its links with drug use in order for us to dramatically change laws regarding legalisation. I really do think that drug usage can be very destabilising for someones mind though, although unfortunately it takes many of us a long time to realise that.

 

[keej]

I emphathise with Vans situation, his mum I feel for....Singapore government although it is lawfull for them to execute this kid for this crime, they could also take a humanitarian approach and give him mercy...sometimes mercy will do more to prove a point than brute force itself...

The thing about a zero tolerance policy is that once you make an exception, it fails to be a zero tolerance policy

The idea that he deserves to die is foul, I agree with that. But at the same time when you take a risk, you have to accept the potential consequences. These are the cards he has been dealt.

 

[endlesseulogy]

The American Psychriatric Association dignostic book the DSM, states that substance abuse in itself is a symptom of psychosis and schizophrenia. There has never been any definitive proof that drugs cause this. Its cut down the middle 50/50 from the majority of journals i have read regarding this issue. We as media consumers only tend to hear about the "drugs are bad" messages.

This is not the time to get into the faults of psychoanalytical science, but any science that treats the mind as a tangiable object that needs to be "treated" couldnt really be called science could it, because science only deals with what is tangible. Can you see your mind? Its science tripping up on its own basic fundemental rules. Psychiatry has failed to move itself into the era of quantum mechanics.

anyway 8)

 

[swifty]

I think its pretty academic as to whether Ghandi was a pre-schooler or not. But what I do know without talking too much shit is that it wouldn't actually take too many intelligent people to re-write the legal system into some semblence of fairness. That's the easy part. The problem is actually the fact that the entirety of the system is designed around NOT allowing this kind of change, and maintaining a secure and thus conservative foundation on which capitalism can be based.

-plaz out-

This is probably one of the most sensible and on the money quotes I've ever read on this site.