I doubt the cat's skull is opened given the situation. It would be more sterile than that if it were.
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Bought a spore syringe, injected it, and now my arm hurts and I'm not high.
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nearjat
Bluelighter
that video is amazing :D
I would definitely recommend watching the rest of that doc (linkied above) then if that piqued yer interest, Nearjat. Some fascinating ideas and some good interviews with a wide variety of folk 
Pretty sure most animals have some form of consciousness and probably some degree of self-awareness. Sheep are notoriously dense creatures but it's been demonstrated that a sheep will recognise the face of a fellow sheep for at least five years even if they only saw each other once initially and are kept apart afterwards. Basic imprinting on familiar faces is a very primordial instinct that's found in loads of animals. How much further consciousness extends in each species is somewhat more debatable, for sure.
Pretty sure most animals have some form of consciousness and probably some degree of self-awareness. Sheep are notoriously dense creatures but it's been demonstrated that a sheep will recognise the face of a fellow sheep for at least five years even if they only saw each other once initially and are kept apart afterwards. Basic imprinting on familiar faces is a very primordial instinct that's found in loads of animals. How much further consciousness extends in each species is somewhat more debatable, for sure.
greenberryhaze
Bluelighter
What imaging technique do you reckon they're using then?
I wouldn't know but it doesn't look invasive to me. It just doesn't look like a surgical set-up and no matter what your view on animal experimentation is they don't just open skulls in what are clearly non-sterile situations. Maybe watch the rest of the documentary to get the context? I've not seen it for a while so honestly don't recall.
greenberryhaze
Bluelighter
Nice find - thanks for the linky
I've only skimmed it and doubt I'll understand much anyway but are you saying the image is captured before it's been processed in the cat's brain? That would be less to get excited about possibly. Then again, I doubt anyone knows enough for sure about how vision truly works to be positive one way or t'other. Which is where ethics come in, perhaps. I'm still undecided on the morality, validity and value of animal experimentation but if one accepts it as a "necessary evil" then there is possible justification for such work.
I've seen somewhat similar experiments done in blind humans only reversed - sending images to their brain to recreate a form of vision. Was very crude and not even as close to video quality as in the cat experiment but did seem to have potential. There's a hell of a lot to learn about how vision and other senses (not to mention the rest) that's still thinly understood at best. The cat experiment could well be in poor taste for many but it didn't appear to be cruel as such to me. Ethical or not is a hard one.
I've only skimmed it and doubt I'll understand much anyway but are you saying the image is captured before it's been processed in the cat's brain? That would be less to get excited about possibly. Then again, I doubt anyone knows enough for sure about how vision truly works to be positive one way or t'other. Which is where ethics come in, perhaps. I'm still undecided on the morality, validity and value of animal experimentation but if one accepts it as a "necessary evil" then there is possible justification for such work.
I've seen somewhat similar experiments done in blind humans only reversed - sending images to their brain to recreate a form of vision. Was very crude and not even as close to video quality as in the cat experiment but did seem to have potential. There's a hell of a lot to learn about how vision and other senses (not to mention the rest) that's still thinly understood at best. The cat experiment could well be in poor taste for many but it didn't appear to be cruel as such to me. Ethical or not is a hard one.
I just had a funky idea :D what if you combine the video's of the cat visual information interpreted from the brain to a screen with the old experiment video with the cat on LSD??
Only of course give the cat a lower dose of LSD so that it doesnt look like he is getting electrocuted.
Eventually try it on man.
I.e. hook up a person or animal on psychedelic to that visualizing machine.
Shouldn't you be able to see ACTUAL visuals on a screen??
Yes, okay I know that the resolution of the visual sucks at this point and is mostly shape outlines but give it a little time. And fantasy.
Only of course give the cat a lower dose of LSD so that it doesnt look like he is getting electrocuted.
Eventually try it on man.
I.e. hook up a person or animal on psychedelic to that visualizing machine.
Shouldn't you be able to see ACTUAL visuals on a screen??
Yes, okay I know that the resolution of the visual sucks at this point and is mostly shape outlines but give it a little time. And fantasy.
Ha! The PD Vivisection Posse are in full effect :D
It is interesting research whatever your views on animal experimentation are. If I were a lab cat there's probably worse stuff they could be doing to me. Whether such a thing as a labcat should be there in the first place is a different question.
How this technology works in man is far more interesting and far less controversial, perhaps. Getting images directly from the brain is pretty feckin' mind-blowing. As it were.
It is interesting research whatever your views on animal experimentation are. If I were a lab cat there's probably worse stuff they could be doing to me. Whether such a thing as a labcat should be there in the first place is a different question.
How this technology works in man is far more interesting and far less controversial, perhaps. Getting images directly from the brain is pretty feckin' mind-blowing. As it were.
I'm having a dream of the future where you can visit an art exhibition that presents a cinematic show where real-time fantasies of an artist are shown while he is hooked up to a brain-a-tron. Hopefully someday my dream will be playing in a theater near you!
Yeah well animal experimentation is a controversial thing. Animals cannot seem to handle the psychedelic information stream that is released within them and they only react instinctively which is pretty much inherently negative in this case. I cannot even begin to go into the ethical question of how much animal suffering is worth what research.
About the killing of mice and cattle, that is in my opinion a subject where many people go wrong. They might say that killing them is wrong while they wouldn't have lived in the first place if it wasn't for their purpose. It is the suffering you should focus on. Let some committee decide if they can tell how much an animal is suffering from something and if we can do without the research or some other purpose. Yes there is wrong doing in the world on this subject, but if you reject certain things about this you also have to accept the consequences that many people will die.
How the hell did I post this in this particular thread? Insane.
Yeah well animal experimentation is a controversial thing. Animals cannot seem to handle the psychedelic information stream that is released within them and they only react instinctively which is pretty much inherently negative in this case. I cannot even begin to go into the ethical question of how much animal suffering is worth what research.
About the killing of mice and cattle, that is in my opinion a subject where many people go wrong. They might say that killing them is wrong while they wouldn't have lived in the first place if it wasn't for their purpose. It is the suffering you should focus on. Let some committee decide if they can tell how much an animal is suffering from something and if we can do without the research or some other purpose. Yes there is wrong doing in the world on this subject, but if you reject certain things about this you also have to accept the consequences that many people will die.
How the hell did I post this in this particular thread? Insane.
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You probably went and shot up one of those spore syringes again - doh! SillySolly :D
Am liking your futureartvision though
No animals were harmed in the making of this post.
Am liking your futureartvision though
No animals were harmed in the making of this post.
greenberryhaze
Bluelighter
I am totally against harming animals for this type of research. All this stuff could be done ethically with humans, since they know the consequences of what's going to happen to them. I guarantee you could find volunteers for these invasive brain experiments. I bet you could even find some fetishists who would get off on it, you wouldn't even have to pay them.
I'm pretty sure you're right on that. Interesting though it may be to see the world through the eyes of a different species it's probably not something to go delving too deeply into. Such research has to start somewhere though and that start is still gonna be in animals for the most part. In the early stages anyway. Would you volunteer to go first over a labrat? Or even a labcat? Not sure I would, to be honest. I'm not sure finding "some fetishists who would get off on it" is exactly ethical either really.
greenberryhaze
Bluelighter
I certainly would not volunteer for such experiments, but there seems to be a surplus of humans lately. For some of them to willingly sacrifice their body to science is, in my view, better than harming innocent animals who may well be conscious beings.
People are also conscious beings. There is quite probably a surplus of humans at the moment - if any wish to donate themselves to science then good for them. People tend not to want to though. You wouldn't, I wouldn't, would anybody? Maybe. Probably not enough to go around though, to be honest. Animal experimentation in certain areas is probably a "necessary evil" at the moment, in my opinion. Obviously such research shouldn't be frivolous but replacing all animal experimentation with human volunteers who probably don't exist (and if they do they are a very rare breed, I suspect) just doesn't seem practical. I'm certainly no animal-hater but I just don't really see a way round it, to be honest. Maybe one day... but I don't think that day has come yet.
greenberryhaze
Bluelighter
I guess it's a matter of how necessary and how evil. I'm a lot more comfortable with someone cutting into a rat than a cat. I am perhaps overly fond of cats. If this were a chimp I personally don't think it would be justified.
As far as humans volunteering for this type of research, I think you'd find enough volunteers for BCIs and probably not enough for testing cosmetics and whatnot. Certainly there are plenty willing to test novel pharmaceuticals. With certain chems you'd probably collect enough data for an LD50.
As far as humans volunteering for this type of research, I think you'd find enough volunteers for BCIs and probably not enough for testing cosmetics and whatnot. Certainly there are plenty willing to test novel pharmaceuticals. With certain chems you'd probably collect enough data for an LD50.
greenberryhaze
Bluelighter
Probably a little, but far less so than doing it on a monkey.
teh1buck
Bluelighter
Knew it was probably a joke, but knew in the back of my mind that some people really are stupid enough to do this and that it could potentially happen lol
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