Mental Health Borderline Personality Disorder

[Psychedelic Jay]

Yeah, it's all part of life, sometime you are naturally going to get out of whack.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

My fiancee's father and brother have Borderline Personality Disorder.

The stigma is there *for a reason*, but not all people who have BPD are like my fiancee's father and brother.

It seems there are two "types" of it, like there are two types of Bipolar Disorder. There is a "type" of BPD which is more like a constant stream of extreme emotional disturbance, whereas there's another "type" of BPD which is more like antisocial personality disorder to the point of sociopathy.

I can tell you have a pretty solid basic understanding of sociopathy (APD) and BPD but I just want to clarify and differentiate a bit. The essential feature in the DSM for APD is a "pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."

In contrast, the essential feature for BPD is "a pervasive pattern of instability of personal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity that begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts".

I believe I understand why you are likening certain manifestations of BPD as similar to APD but the comparison does bother me a little bit. The major difference is in intent despite many similarities in the outcomes. APD and BPD individuals may burn bridges and wreak a path of destruction however the APD individual is doing so to achieve selfish means with a total disregard while the BPD person is doing so due to impulsivity, emptiness, self-image problems and overall their inability to control these incomprehensibly intense emotions (which of course the APD lack).

I understand the impulse to try to sort out BPD into 2 distinct types to make better sense (and mitigate the negative feelings of associating the 'nicer' BPD's with the "APD-like" ones) but in reality BPD manifests in a number of different ways, some similar to and some very different from your 2 type conception.

I guess what I am trying to say is I don't think someone with the APD like BPD would stay around long on BL, they would threaten someone over something little and get banned really quick, so honestly, I think it would be assumed no one with APD or anything close to APD like BPD would even have a Bluelight account to be honest with you. People with the "friendlier" version of BPD are able to post on BL, make friends, talk normally to other people, and are not ... I am not going to get into my fiancee's brother and father. I just won't do it here, I'll just vent too much.

For most suffering from BPD, there isn't always consistency in the application of their extreme emotional reactions to different areas of their lives. For some, they will come off as APD to their future in-laws but can function with ease on internet message boards. For others, they may seem fine among family but intentionally create chaos online. Essentially there is generally variability in the application of the instability.

I am really not trying to criticize or anything because I can tell you care about people and are very much trying to understand, I just worry that your conception of organizing individuals afflicted by BPD into two groups is not exactly consistent with its appearance in societies. I can see how this fits your experience, but be wary of the inductive reasoning. Limited cases are rarely representative of the majority.

No, Borderline Personality Disorder is in Cluster B of Axis II of the DSM-IV. The other personality disorders like BPD are: Antisocial Personality Disorder (horrible, guiltless, emotionless people who will fuck over anyone including themselves just to get whatever they want - not all APD people are sociopaths, but let me just say, people with APD are the scum of the earth), Histrionic Personality Disorder, and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I just wanted to add in the other personality disorders if anyone is interested (as well as links to descriptions).

1. Schizoid Personality Disorder
2. Paranoid Personality Disorder
3. Schizotypal Personality Disorder
4. Avoidant Personality Disorder
5. Dependent Personality Disorder
6. Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (NOT O.C.D.)

PLEASE if you read these, do not try to diagnose yourself. There is a reason why psych professionals go through so many years of training to be able to diagnose these rare and similar conditions.

 

[Pillthrill]

^2nd to the disclaimer. I'm currently getting a 4 year degree in psychology and sociology and I wouldn't even do self-diagnosis!

 

[Cane2theLeft]

...and yet my drug counsellor is constantly questioning the diagnosis because I'm not like other people with BPD who she's encountered in the past. She doesn't seem to realise that there is a lot of variation in people diagnosed with BPD, and we're not all the same!

This is a huge problem affecting so many with BPD!!!

There are some people with BPD who will terrorize and then EVERYONE with it are stigmatized and can't receive adequate help and compassion... which is terribly sad in psych fields especially.

^2nd to the disclaimer. I'm currently getting a 4 year degree in psychology and sociology and I wouldn't even do self-diagnosis!

There is a reason why licensed doctors can't even prescribe basic medications to themselves; no one can objectively assess their own health (physical or mental) sufficiently and appropriately.

EDIT:

Yup. Such is the plight. The time I spend thinking about it the less convinced I am. Sure I got the dx and was like, GREAT now what? Then to be told that medication doesn't work and only MAYBE years of therapy would. Psychological death sentence.
But the mood stabilizer Lamictal and a change out of my poisonous environment seemed to help a lot. Does that mean I'm more Bipolar or do I still have BPD and just cope better? IDK

Near universally people diagnosed with Axis-II disorders will meet the criteria for at least one Axis-I.

I suspect (and have seen) many people diagnosed with things like BPD due to behavior in certain situations or environments and when these are removed, they no longer meet criteria for the Axis-II condition.

The diagnosing professional can not always see a comprehensive enough view of the client's life and sometimes life circumstances skew that anyway.

Its entirely possible PT that you have or had an Axis-I such as bipolar with borderline FEATURES or something similar and never truly had the more-permanent Axis-II BPD.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Great links C2tL, thank you.

 

[Sweet P]

Near universally people diagnosed with Axis-II disorders will meet the criteria for at least one Axis-I.

That's interesting, as I'm diagnosed with Recurrent Major Depressive Disorder (Axis-I), Borderline Personality Disorder (Axis-II), and I have a whole heap of medical problems that would probably fall under Axis-III.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^yeah, exactly (and all general medical conditions fall under Axis-III).

 

[Pillthrill]

^That is what I was told too.

Major Depressive Disorder, Recurrent
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
and
Borderline Personality Disorder

And like I said, meds and environment seemed to make all the difference.

 

[General Patton]

I recently had a stereotypically stormy relationship with a girl whom I feel embodies alot of the traits of BPD. But at the same time I know that it's not right to "diagnose" yourself or others with any kind of psychological disorder, especially when you're still so involved with your own emotions. The things that make me think this are the extreme mood swings, like one minute waxing nostalgic over how great our relationship was, switching to the complete opposite at the tiniest hint of rejection. It makes me feel like I'm walking on eggshells and nothing I say could possibly get through to her. I won't go into any personal details about what went on between us, or anything that could trigger other people's behaviors... But it was awful being around her at points, as I have bi-polar II with anxiety and thus have a bit of a fragile self-esteem. The things she'd say to me would just cut so deep and be so soul-destroying that I eventually had to stop talking to her. There are other things but I'd rather not go into them for the aforementioned reasons.

I ended up reading a good book called "The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide" which made me have compassion for her and see how it could be difficult to live with such overwhelming emotions. I tend to seem pretty unemotional most of the time but I hide my strong emotions behind a wall of apathy. I felt our relationship was pretty much just one giant traumatic experience and I ended up doing alot of ketamine just to distance myself from it. Dealing with the fallout of that has been what's dominated my life over the past few months and it's only lately that I've started to open up about it. I never knew there were so many people with BPD here on TDS, but it makes sense consider how many people struggle with self-harm which is sortof TDS's specialty. I hope that I can understand the perspective of the people here who have made progress with their issues and I can learn more about it. Peace.

 

[Pillthrill]

^ very good book. I recommend that as well. People with BPD AND friends and family will benefit from reading it.

 

[General Patton]

Yeah, it's great. I'm reading a study on women with BPD who have been sexually abused that my Mom sent me. If I can get the PDF somehow I'll try and post it, there's some good info in here too.

 

[spork]

I find often there are 2 types of BPD, those who lash out at others and those that lash out at themselves. Granted there is some crossover depending on what stresses the person is experiencing. But there seems to be a instant reaction.

Person: Hey, you suck.

Internal BPD, external: God! You make me so mad! I could break your face!

Internal BPD, internal: Why would you say that? Am I really that bad? Why don't people like me?

Now of course this is over simplified. And I can recant my theory should someone be offended.

I definitely agree with this. I'm way more able to lash out at myself than I am at others. I also have pretty bad social anxiety though and I put a ton of thought into what other people think about me. Very few people have really seen me angry. Some people know that I do have anger and I just bottle it up, but I think most people think that I'm just not the type of person to get angry when actually I just take it all out on myself.

I also agree that it does get easier to deal with as you get older. Part of me wishes I was diagnosed earlier so I knew what the fuck was going on with me, but I also think that I wouldn't have been able to get to the place I am now so quickly. A BPD diagnosis is kind of rough to deal with at any age, but I've noticed that those diagnosed later than others are usually able to handle it a little better.

Captain.Heroin, thanks much for your kind words. It feels really good to finally "come out" about this after keeping it in for so long. It's like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I hope life will treat you better soon.

I'm curious about what kind of medications others have found to be helpful? I've tried Zoloft and Celexa before and neither of those worked at the highest doses. Now I've been on Cymbalta and that doesn't seem to be working either. All I've gotten from any of those is weight gain. No other side effects, positive or negative. I'm working on weaning my Klonopin dose down to 1 mg a day and will then be adding buspar/wellbutrin to the mix. I know that meds differ so much from person to person and a lot of it's trial and error, but it would be really nice to know what's worked for other people!

 

[Pillthrill]

^ Like I said I swear by Lamictal. (which reminds me, I need to take it)
I was using anywhere from 1 to 3mg of klonopin a day. I use it just a few times a month.

 

[*drug my (b)rain*]

i haent been diagnosed with such things,but im bipolar and im sure that somehow ties into that ,i go through personalitys like i go through skateboards

 

[phactor]

I do not, however many of my clients do. Lots of them also have drug addictions. Many of those with BPD often became involved with a man or woman that was already addicted and then ended up just as hooked themselves.

I will be honest, dealing with BPD people can be difficult. However plenty of techniques exist to help them cope. Many however do not ever make the effort to get help. Keep in mind I work with an extremely disenfranchised population, so the only places they can get help are often state run facilities. Which are losing money, and we are losing money as well so there are less of us to help them and make referalls.

The thing about personality disorders is environment plays a much larger role in it then many other mental illnesses. Its why you will see a cycle of personality disorders that seem to just run down family lines.

DBT seems to really work by the way. I encourage all those with personality disorders attempt it.

It is such frustrating work, its part of the reason that I am planning on going to law school.

 

[ocean]

This is a GREAT thread, I really don't want to see it fall by the wayside.
There are a number of really informative links in information here guys!

Good work!!!

 

[Sweet P]

Thanks for bumping this thread, Ocean.

During my recent stay in hospital, the psychiatrist looking after me decided that I probably don't have Major Depressive Disorder at all, and my depression was more likely linked to my BPD. Thinking about it, he's probably right. So he's now taken MDD off my file, which leaves only BPD and Polysubstance Dependence. It feels quite good having one less "label".

I'm considering giving DBT another try soon, as I've heard that a new group will be starting in another month or so. Hopefully now that my drug use has improved, I might have more success with the therapy. I might try to find a copy of that book "The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide" mentioned above... it sounds interesting. I've also been told of a book called "Sometimes I Act Crazy: Living With Borderline Personality Disorder" which is apparently a good overview of the disorder and its symptoms. I've been thinking of getting a copy of that for my parents, to help them understand. Has anybody read it?

 

[ColinGibs]

BPD DOES NOT EXIST PEOPLE

It's a label given to those who understand more than others so they can try to change who you really are inside and re-repress you back into financial and medical slavery.

Give it time. You'll figure it out. All you haven't figured out is that life is supposed to be FUCKING HARDER before it gets better. It takes more than a year or two to get in the flow of your own life. Stop letting who you are get created by the thoughts given to you and create your own. There are no opposites, or extremes, only the balance.


People who are diagnosed with this are some of the most wonderful people alive and in this NEW AGE are the ones who will be changing the world. You need to stop looking at it like you are behaving wrong, and just learn to work with the intensity or your emotions, and push it into a better place.

Forget this medical system. It's trying to change YOU. Your reliance on others links over to the doctors too. So when you're relying in your mind on docs to help you figure out how to get better. You're letting the doctors create your mind for you. And all you're doing is transferring your "BPD" symptoms over to the doctors. YOU need to figure it out. The treatment is for the weak and if YOU want to go on meds forever and eventually poison your bloodline and permanently become the same as everyone else. Instead of just BEING a person.

All personalities are different. Don't fucking rely on MEDICAL SYSTEM to make you think that WHO YOU REALLY ARE INSIDE is diseased or wrong in some way. You just need time and more experiences to help you learn what you really need more. You rely on what told for you that you need and don't think of what you actually do.

Just give it time. Fuck this behavioral modification shit! Get out of America while you still have a chance. It's not you it's SOCIETY. So change what that is to you..

 

[ColinGibs]

I do not, however many of my clients do. Lots of them also have drug addictions. Many of those with BPD often became involved with a man or woman that was already addicted and then ended up just as hooked themselves.

I will be honest, dealing with BPD people can be difficult. However plenty of techniques exist to help them cope. Many however do not ever make the effort to get help. Keep in mind I work with an extremely disenfranchised population, so the only places they can get help are often state run facilities. Which are losing money, and we are losing money as well so there are less of us to help them and make referalls.

The thing about personality disorders is environment plays a much larger role in it then many other mental illnesses. Its why you will see a cycle of personality disorders that seem to just run down family lines.

DBT seems to really work by the way. I encourage all those with personality disorders attempt it.

It is such frustrating work, its part of the reason that I am planning on going to law school.

Do you see that the roles presented by society and them trying to fill them when they can't is really the cause? And you're just helping the bullshit of people getting trapped with docs up their shoulders sucking money out of them continuously when IT DOESN'T IMPROVE THEIR LIVES. YOU TURN THEM INTO ZOMBIES.

This country doesn't have the capacity for "different" people because of it patriarchial facsist consumerist media influenced "culture", which is controlled from when we're born basically. You just want everyone the "same" in the future. You deserve the worst fate imaginable for your role in the destruction of humanity.

You just want to trap people and control their egos so you can construct them to be functional in your eyes. What you don't realize is that everyone in the fucking world can qualify in this position at some point in their lives. It's called LIFEEEEE. LIVEEEE. You will get through it and you will be fine.

We're all exactly the same inside but with different programming to tune into. "Borderline" people are on the border of free and mentally enslaved. YOU try to bring them to YOUR SIDE. Which maybe even unknown to you, because everything that YOU learned was controlled, and everything YOU practice is controlled. You evil shithead doctor get the fuck out of people's lives. Let them learn to be free in a land so corrupted. Fuck you for using your mental strength for the benefit of this FUCKED UP GOVERNMENT. LOOK AT WHAT YOUR INFULUENCE IN SOCIETY IS.

GET SOME FUCKING EMPATHY. YOU FUCKING DRONE DOCTOR. YOU'RE HELPING IMPRISON THE MIND OF THE MASSES ETERNALLY.

WHEN THE REVOLUTION HAPPENS, IT WILL NOT BE TELEVISED.

AND ONE THING'S FOR SURE, YOU MOTHERFUCKERS ARE NOT GOING TO BE ON THE WINNING SIDE. BATHE IN YOUR IGNORANCE YOU FUCKING FOOL.

 

[psyly]

Resonse to ColinGibs: Diagnoses of mental illness are mental constructs that either bear resemblance to real life people and situations or they don't. ColinGibs I agree w/ you that "All personalities are different." but I definitely believe that it is useful to apply typologies to individuals rather than starting every therapeutic situation anew as though everything is equally worth trying to spite previous experience with like individuals. People with BPD typology are not hunted down by clinicians, by my observation, but are people contacting clinicians looking for help.

Statements like "The treatment is for the weak and if YOU want to go on meds forever and eventually poison your bloodline and permanently become the same as everyone else. Instead of just BEING a person." seems to me to be possibly produced by psychosis but definitely is good fodder for a psychotic state.

GET SOME FUCKING EMPATHY. YOU FUCKING DRONE DOCTOR. YOU'RE HELPING IMPRISON THE MIND OF THE MASSES ETERNALLY.

Eternally, a word used by psychotics a great deal in my experience. Tell me how anyone in this thread is effecting things eternally. You and I are temporal beings with an beginning and an expiration-neither of us has any real conception of eternity except through imagination or psychosis.