rangrz
Bluelighter
No suggested mechanism I take it?
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Bluelight Astrology Club :)
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B1tO'RoughJack
Bluelighter
^Nah man I don't have all the answers, as neither do you - we are not gods, we are men. All I can say is gravity would be the most distant from my mind, and all I do know is that it is ENERGY (albeit unknown, potentially unfathomable energy) that connects us with the stars.
Nick - http://www.astrology-online.com/aries.htm I tried this one, and as it stands - where I am in my evolution I could safely say that most of the personality stuff applies, probably about 75-80 percent.
I could tell you however that if we had done this 5 years ago, I would have said a lot of it was not something I could see myself as, or be referred to by a third party.
THen I did this one - http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm and it is waaaaaaaay off - only a certain amount of the positive aspects can be applied to me, and
Both have health problems that don't connect with me at all, and the emotional problems we could have attributed to us - well these are problems you could attribute to ANYONE, but I guess these people might have a susceptibility to certain emotional upsets, like jealousy, anger, etc etc - Leo's egotism definitely is a lot further away from being true for me than Aries.
One discipline of astrology cannot tell you everything - it is best to look at natal, vedic, chinese etc all together to see the whole, from my experience. Although I can honestly say that EVERYTHING in my zodiac definition is spot on, and third parties who know me will state this too.
One question I have for you both - Why are you so adamantly trying to prove these things like astrology, palmistry, kundalini energy, telekinesis, telepathy, intuition, Qi, meridians, homeopathy, etc etc are bunkum, let alone not sciences in their own rights? Why can you not accept that you are just ignorant, and not openminded, to some things? OK that was 2 questions.
Just very big egos (not saying mine isn't at this moment, but it is being humbled daily, getting ready for dissolution) - it must be hard being you guys.
Nick - http://www.astrology-online.com/aries.htm I tried this one, and as it stands - where I am in my evolution I could safely say that most of the personality stuff applies, probably about 75-80 percent.
I could tell you however that if we had done this 5 years ago, I would have said a lot of it was not something I could see myself as, or be referred to by a third party.
THen I did this one - http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm and it is waaaaaaaay off - only a certain amount of the positive aspects can be applied to me, and
Both have health problems that don't connect with me at all, and the emotional problems we could have attributed to us - well these are problems you could attribute to ANYONE, but I guess these people might have a susceptibility to certain emotional upsets, like jealousy, anger, etc etc - Leo's egotism definitely is a lot further away from being true for me than Aries.
One discipline of astrology cannot tell you everything - it is best to look at natal, vedic, chinese etc all together to see the whole, from my experience. Although I can honestly say that EVERYTHING in my zodiac definition is spot on, and third parties who know me will state this too.
One question I have for you both - Why are you so adamantly trying to prove these things like astrology, palmistry, kundalini energy, telekinesis, telepathy, intuition, Qi, meridians, homeopathy, etc etc are bunkum, let alone not sciences in their own rights? Why can you not accept that you are just ignorant, and not openminded, to some things? OK that was 2 questions.
Just very big egos (not saying mine isn't at this moment, but it is being humbled daily, getting ready for dissolution) - it must be hard being you guys.
rangrz
Bluelighter
I have no vested interest in proving anything to be bunk for it's own sake. I'd be just as interested in finding evidence which confirms it. It doesn't really matter to me. But, when I start thinking about it, and evaluating the evidence, and fitting into everything that is known, I see that it doesn't appear to be supportable. I've got no good evidence supporting it. I have a lot of things that contradict it, like it would require us to overturn things that we KNOW work. We know they work due to the phenomenal ability to use these theories to put Nuclear powered, computer operated robots on Mars that can do spectroscopic analysis of chemicals in the soil of Mars and beam the data back to us. In order for a lot of super-natural/paranormal/alternative/etc stuff to actually work, these already understood theories would need to be so RADICALLY different/would be so far removed from reality that we wouldn't be able to do that. But we obviously can. It works, bitches.
Homeopathy, to work, would have such radical implications that it would truly frighting to drink any water, ever.
Homeopathy, to work, would have such radical implications that it would truly frighting to drink any water, ever.
P A
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rickolasnice
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Yep.
Congrats. You found 1 that doesn't ALL fit you. It doesn't mean it doesn't fit most people. Generally with Barnum statements is that if it's positive, more people will see themselves in it. If it's negative, less people will see themselves.
And you're right I'm sorry.. I forgot health issues only affect 1/6 of the population (whether it be themselves or someone they know).
But your zodiac is wrong.. are you ignoring my links to the earths precession or what? And remember you are already looking at it from a biased stand point. Like you already said.. people will see what they want to see.
They are not sciences. You seem to have very little understanding of what science actually is.
And I am open minded. Not believing in something which has NO evidence to support it is not being closed minded. You seem to be closed minded in the way you can't admit you could be wrong.
Pot calling kettle black?
And remember how I told you that homeopathy dilutes it's solutions SO much that there is no "essence" of anything left? Find me one study that proves homeopathy is any more than a placebo and i will find you a handful that say it isn't. Even down to the way it's supposed to work.. it's like someone pulled an idea out of their ass and laughed as they got rich off the ignorant. But this isn't a homeopathy thread. Make your own.. I'll gladly contribute.
Btw i looked.. not 1 study find homeopathy to work.
Read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology#Lack_of_consistency
And the next couple of topics.. And the links they provide.
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B1tO'RoughJack
Bluelighter
I'm not convinced on it(homeopathy) but it's one thing I have chosen to hold off researching, because you have to go REALLY deep - I grew up with it, was never really convinced, until I grew up, lost my apathy and general attitude of ignorance, saw the validity of the gifts nature gaves us as medicines and guides on how to live our lives, and therefore I'm not looking at that one yet still - I'm totally on the fence between being a total skeptic, and someone who believes it works. Everything I have heard or seen about it is HEARSAY. So I cannot comment on it. I will look at it however because it seems to run along the same sort of concept as a "bhasma" from Ayurvedic/Siddha medicine.
Other things like astrology and palmistry, yoga, and the "paranormal"(etc blah blah list goes on) - I have seen first hand and anecdotal, and studied parts of these intensively, and am always looking for/open to discovering flaws in them too - Otherwise it cannot be called knowledge.
What I see in the world is most Christians are not happy - they got a kind compassionate attitude, but they generally appear burdened; hindus seem to know what's what - their attitude and buddhists - they're not cold or seperatist. They have the right idea as a sector of compassionate spiritual humans. Pretty Everyone else seems to have lost their humanity in varying ways - become detached from a natural way of living and reacting/relating to one another.
I can comment on you guys having massive egos, because I myself have a big ego still, hence why us 3 keep going "GRR" at each other - but at the end of the year, I'm planning to get rid of mine, so I couldn't give 2 shits, especially seeing as this whole world is absurd anyways...and I stated as a disclaimer mine was big!
Regarding the health issues thing - everyone's got health issues - everyone has an innate susceptibility to SOME condition, and a general innate resistance to others.
We can all give a statement/phrase a wanky name, after someone else with a big ego - Whoever this Barnum dude is - does not mean that the concept upon which the maxim of the statement is based, is a solid foundation on all levels of knowledge.
A barnum statement as you've flung at me before proves something happens SOMETIMES - it doesn't make it an ultimate truth, or a universal maxim you can apply to everything in the universe - it can be validly applied to some things. Big whoop.
I carried on and looked at a bunch more and they didn'#t work for me - even if I tried, for arguments sake - I'm not THAT unique, so that rule can be applied to most people.
ALl you have proved is that most of us have SOMETHING in common.
End of. Get out and leave us believers/those in the know, to get on with consulting the stars and elements *BRRRAAAP!!* in peace, ja boyo...
PS check this shit out hahaha - double checking my definition of para-normal and super-natural I stumbled upon this - http://occultandparanormal.webs.com/ Rick if ya still in LDN then this is fairly close. THought it would amuse.
Other things like astrology and palmistry, yoga, and the "paranormal"(etc blah blah list goes on) - I have seen first hand and anecdotal, and studied parts of these intensively, and am always looking for/open to discovering flaws in them too - Otherwise it cannot be called knowledge.
What I see in the world is most Christians are not happy - they got a kind compassionate attitude, but they generally appear burdened; hindus seem to know what's what - their attitude and buddhists - they're not cold or seperatist. They have the right idea as a sector of compassionate spiritual humans. Pretty Everyone else seems to have lost their humanity in varying ways - become detached from a natural way of living and reacting/relating to one another.
I can comment on you guys having massive egos, because I myself have a big ego still, hence why us 3 keep going "GRR" at each other - but at the end of the year, I'm planning to get rid of mine, so I couldn't give 2 shits, especially seeing as this whole world is absurd anyways...and I stated as a disclaimer mine was big!
Regarding the health issues thing - everyone's got health issues - everyone has an innate susceptibility to SOME condition, and a general innate resistance to others.
We can all give a statement/phrase a wanky name, after someone else with a big ego - Whoever this Barnum dude is - does not mean that the concept upon which the maxim of the statement is based, is a solid foundation on all levels of knowledge.
A barnum statement as you've flung at me before proves something happens SOMETIMES - it doesn't make it an ultimate truth, or a universal maxim you can apply to everything in the universe - it can be validly applied to some things. Big whoop.
I carried on and looked at a bunch more and they didn'#t work for me - even if I tried, for arguments sake - I'm not THAT unique, so that rule can be applied to most people.
ALl you have proved is that most of us have SOMETHING in common.
End of. Get out and leave us believers/those in the know, to get on with consulting the stars and elements *BRRRAAAP!!* in peace, ja boyo...
PS check this shit out hahaha - double checking my definition of para-normal and super-natural I stumbled upon this - http://occultandparanormal.webs.com/ Rick if ya still in LDN then this is fairly close. THought it would amuse.
rickolasnice
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If I prayed to God that I would recover from an illness and I did and then went on to study the bible.. It doesn't mean that God exists and that the bible is a science.
If you know what a barnum statement is.. read horoscopes or zodiac signs and then tell me they're not full of them.
And I know I've mentioned James Randi before.. But why do you think he's never had to pay out the $1million? He's devoted a MASSIVE portion of his life looking for evidence.. He's every put up the $1million reward for anyone that can show him, yet nobody has.. doesn't that tell you something?
And if you actually knew me, you would definitely not consider me to have a massive ego. Far from it.
lol.
And you still seem to be ignoring my point about the earths precession, all knowing one.
Tell me if this fits you:
The things with things like this is.. You can test it.. And I don't mean read you're own horoscope and see if it fits.. Read someone else a wrong horoscope and see if it fits.. Or I could sit here and read you horoscopes without telling you what zodiac sign they're for and chances are you will guess the wrong one to being your own.. as has been proven time and time again (not by you.. just saying..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDhxcIaC23k
The video's put both horoscopes and zodiac signs to the test.
If you know what a barnum statement is.. read horoscopes or zodiac signs and then tell me they're not full of them.
And I know I've mentioned James Randi before.. But why do you think he's never had to pay out the $1million? He's devoted a MASSIVE portion of his life looking for evidence.. He's every put up the $1million reward for anyone that can show him, yet nobody has.. doesn't that tell you something?
And if you actually knew me, you would definitely not consider me to have a massive ego. Far from it.
lol.
And you still seem to be ignoring my point about the earths precession, all knowing one.
Tell me if this fits you:
NSFW:
The things with things like this is.. You can test it.. And I don't mean read you're own horoscope and see if it fits.. Read someone else a wrong horoscope and see if it fits.. Or I could sit here and read you horoscopes without telling you what zodiac sign they're for and chances are you will guess the wrong one to being your own.. as has been proven time and time again (not by you.. just saying..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDhxcIaC23k
The video's put both horoscopes and zodiac signs to the test.
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B1tO'RoughJack
Bluelighter
I have looked into all your research since our last conversation in PM in december/early jan - you have had nothing new to offer except some stupid questionnaires which do not prove anything, god knows who made them, and the videos - they prove nothing more than what I state below.
Rangrz - who says applying these "paranormal" sciences means we need to deconstruct/not apply maxims and rules of nature/physics we need to apply? They are all complementary.
Right - so regarding the precession - I'm sure this must've been taken into account by astrologers and astronomers in the past - PiP - any thoughts?
Regarding the High Laurie video - I have seen Hugh Laurie and would consider him an extrovert - he's an actor. Stephen Fry says he is not an extrovert - they are friends, but Stephen Fry is massive skeptic and he was not open, straight from get go, to the communication the astrologer offered - if he adjusted his body language his consideration and POV might change. MIGHT.
But that doesn't prove anything significant, it just proves exceptions to the rule(it doesn't even prove it, it just implies it) - it also suggests that subjective truth is not the same as universal truth - our perception of our reality is going to be skewed - personally, I have worked on myself a whole lot, my awareness of how things truly are has shifted a great deal and cosmically I am more in tune with the natural syncopations of the earth, nay - UNIVERSE...but it's still skewed to some unknown degree. Therefore I will of course disagree with some things that are stated about me - this is dependent upon current mood, state of mind, not STATE OF BEING.
Right - so regarding the precession - I'm sure this must've been taken into account by astrologers and astronomers in the past - Panic In Paradise/Mariposa - any thoughts or study you've done?
Rangrz - who says applying these "paranormal" sciences means we need to deconstruct/not apply maxims and rules of nature/physics we need to apply? They are all complementary.
Right - so regarding the precession - I'm sure this must've been taken into account by astrologers and astronomers in the past - PiP - any thoughts?
Regarding the High Laurie video - I have seen Hugh Laurie and would consider him an extrovert - he's an actor. Stephen Fry says he is not an extrovert - they are friends, but Stephen Fry is massive skeptic and he was not open, straight from get go, to the communication the astrologer offered - if he adjusted his body language his consideration and POV might change. MIGHT.
But that doesn't prove anything significant, it just proves exceptions to the rule(it doesn't even prove it, it just implies it) - it also suggests that subjective truth is not the same as universal truth - our perception of our reality is going to be skewed - personally, I have worked on myself a whole lot, my awareness of how things truly are has shifted a great deal and cosmically I am more in tune with the natural syncopations of the earth, nay - UNIVERSE...but it's still skewed to some unknown degree. Therefore I will of course disagree with some things that are stated about me - this is dependent upon current mood, state of mind, not STATE OF BEING.
Right - so regarding the precession - I'm sure this must've been taken into account by astrologers and astronomers in the past - Panic In Paradise/Mariposa - any thoughts or study you've done?
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rickolasnice
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lolwut? Yeah i bring up stuff we have discussed before but you are yet to come up with a valid rebuttal.
They're not.
No. It hasn't.. Astronomers, yeah.. Astrologers, no.
Give James Randi a call, I'm sure he'd love to see you.
Have you tried my experiment, yet?
B1tO'RoughJack
Bluelighter
No, but I will. I am open to it. WIll do it this weekend with my cousins are their friends - could lighten things up at a teetotallers birthday party!
Nothing you said can be proven, especially by you, so I don't really need to try and prove anything, I just want to make you see that you are not proving anything, all you are doing is trying to disprove something which actually helps some people (believers) with their day to day lives. *claps*
As I said I will do that test - in the interests of science - but they're barnum statements, it doesn't prove anything, if the experiment shows that people guess their zodiac wrong from a anonymous description, other than that there are some ambiguous statements (wow big revelation and discovery!) - subjective perception of self is not absolute knowledge, and people want to believe about themselves what they want to believe, at specific stages in their life, especially if they don't go through rigorous efforts to work themselves out.
I am not going to try and rebuttal anything you provide, as it doesn't prove anything - I will entertain and test anything though. you have obviously made your mind up about this - I will try and change your perception of compassion though, as that I feel is an attainable goal, and a duty.
Nothing you said can be proven, especially by you, so I don't really need to try and prove anything, I just want to make you see that you are not proving anything, all you are doing is trying to disprove something which actually helps some people (believers) with their day to day lives. *claps*
As I said I will do that test - in the interests of science - but they're barnum statements, it doesn't prove anything, if the experiment shows that people guess their zodiac wrong from a anonymous description, other than that there are some ambiguous statements (wow big revelation and discovery!) - subjective perception of self is not absolute knowledge, and people want to believe about themselves what they want to believe, at specific stages in their life, especially if they don't go through rigorous efforts to work themselves out.
I am not going to try and rebuttal anything you provide, as it doesn't prove anything - I will entertain and test anything though. you have obviously made your mind up about this - I will try and change your perception of compassion though, as that I feel is an attainable goal, and a duty.
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rickolasnice
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Get off your fckin high horse *all knowing master of the universe*
Finally.
Finally.
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Shrooms00087
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The only one on any high horse is the person who constantly goes into discussions unrelated to their fancy with the sole purpose to derail the discussion. Which is pretty suspicious if you ask me, why would you feel the need to do this? So they aren't in line with your thought...Move on, they aren't harming anyone and you're not defending anyone.
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rickolasnice
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I read a thread. OP asks for opinions. I give it. Shame.
I like a good debate. It's fun. It's educational.
I like a good debate. It's fun. It's educational.
B1tO'RoughJack
Bluelighter
PiP - Are you not going to offer anything into the debate? Come on dude...come play!
PS Rick for the sake of argument, aquarius is working quite nicely for me actually.
PS Rick for the sake of argument, aquarius is working quite nicely for me actually.
B1tO'RoughJack
Bluelighter
No no - everyone knows astrology is a science...deep down. What I mean is about the zodiac - the precession and all. I want other peoples takes on it. People who know much more about this than me.
B1tO'RoughJack
Bluelighter
Says the man in the astrology thread.
It's not your thing? I'm pretty sure i got messages in my inbox that would say otherwise. Regarding vedic AND western natal astrology etc.
I've looked into numerology in the past week actually. That's pretty funny you said that.
It's not your thing? I'm pretty sure i got messages in my inbox that would say otherwise. Regarding vedic AND western natal astrology etc.
I've looked into numerology in the past week actually. That's pretty funny you said that.
modelskinny
Bluelighter
I find both numerology and astrology fascinating. Astrology-wise I'm a Capricorn sun, Aries Moon, ascendant Aries. In numerology I think I am a four or seven. I can't remember. It's been such a long time.
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rickolasnice
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What? Are you saying you adjusted your sign according to the precession and you now fit that one? lol.. go figure 8)
B1tO'RoughJack
Bluelighter
^I'm saying I am trying it out. It's working so far. I haven't started looking at aquarius horoscopes yet though, I'll try that today - but horoscopes are pretty different if they're online or in the paper - they really are barnum statements mostly, to use your terms - still, always helps to get some positivity.