Stimulants Blood pressure 199/101, and HR 117

[Ksa]

I'm using amphetamine, which most likely isn't meth-. That doesn't exist on the street where I'm from. Does this make any difference?


AND: why did the ambulane personal not take me seriously then? If I was in such a mortal danger, why did they just tell me off as If i were wasting their time and the tax payers' money?`I had to ask several times to even take an EKG-test. They were like "well of course your pulse and BP is high, you've taken amphetamine, but there's nothing wrong with you" and then I started holding my breaeth and my pulse raised to 175 to show them that this is not right. They told me to stop playing with their machines.

Meth and amphetamines have similar cardiac effect so I wouldn't sleep on the street amp pillow. Although meth might be a bit more cardiotoxic, still nothing compared to cocaine.

CFC, I can't access your most important links, but, if you wana play the currency of non-fatal cardiac cases, then I say: If meth allows people to discover their cardiac defects when they're 30, meth is doing them a favor! It's better than to discover those defects when you're 60 and nothing can be done about it! And the study on the rats...let's be serious, if you would dissect the heart of a marathon runner after his 40km run you would find the same amounts of focal inflammatory infiltrates with abundant monocytes and occasional necrotic foci. That's 100% harmless.

And try proving that the aorta ruptured due to meth use and not due to an inherent genetic flaw. You'll have a hard time. You're just not comfortable with the idea that a drug can be a tool of natural selection.

 

[CFC]

I'm using amphetamine, which most likely isn't meth-. That doesn't exist on the street where I'm from. Does this make any difference?

It wouldn't appear to greatly, no. Cocaine (especially plus alcohol) is traditionally considered one of the worst of the common stimulants, particularly for its tendency to cause cardiomyopathies leading to acute cardiac episodes, but amp and meth have a much more prolonged duration of action, which is also harmful. Others like MDPV would almost certainly also be included as well. Much of what makes these drugs harsh on the cardiovascular system is their basic and prolonged sympathomimetic characteristics, which is common to most strong stimulants.

AND: why did the ambulane personal not take me seriously then? If I was in such a mortal danger, why did they just tell me off as If i were wasting their time and the tax payers' money?`I had to ask several times to even take an EKG-test. They were like "well of course your pulse and BP is high, you've taken amphetamine, but there's nothing wrong with you" and then I started holding my breaeth and my pulse raised to 175 to show them that this is not right. They told me to stop playing with their machines.

You're looking at the concept of risk in terms of absolutes, which is not how to understand this. If I hand you a gun loaded with one bullet, and you don't know which chamber it's in, but you fire it at your head anyway, the chances are that you won't blow your brains out, despite it being risky. If, instead, I put two bullets in, the chances are still that you won't die, but the risk is going up, mirroring repeated binge-like usage of drugs like meth.

When do you decide the risk is too great? Because at any moment your luck may run out and you could die. However, the likelihood is you could repeat what you've been doing dozens of times and you'll probably recover ok each time. Which is not to say you won't be causing cumulative damage to the heart, but simply that you probably won't develop v-tach, VF, an MI etc from an single instance of usage, despite knowing that each time you do, you're effectively adding another bullet to the gun.

When you begin to appreciate how risky the game you're playing is - that one unfortunate run of bad luck and you could be in serious trouble or even die - it should help you put the risk of harm into a more appropriate perspective.

As for paramedics (and ER/A&E doctors and nurses, for example) they're hardly known for their sympathy to recreational drug users. As far as they're concerned you are wasting their time and taxpayers money - you're choosing to do something that puts your health at risk while many others they treat don't have that choice. I'm not saying their attitude is right, btw. In cases like yours and that of drug addiction, clearly it's difficult to make the right choices, which is why you're seeking help in the first place.

 

[CFC]

If meth allows people to discover their cardiac defects when they're 30, meth is doing them a favor!

You're just not comfortable with the idea that a drug can be a tool of natural selection.

I'm going to pretend you don't actually believe this.

 

[Båtmannen]

It wouldn't appear to greatly, no. Cocaine (especially plus alcohol) is traditionally considered one of the worst of the common stimulants, particularly for its tendency to cause cardiomyopathies leading to acute cardiac episodes, but amp and meth have a much more prolonged duration of action, which is also harmful. Others like MDPV would almost certainly also be included as well. Much of what makes these drugs harsh on the cardiovascular system is their basic and prolonged sympathomimetic characteristics, which is common to most strong stimulants.



You're looking at the concept of risk in terms of absolutes, which is not how to understand this. If I hand you a gun loaded with one bullet, and you don't know which chamber it's in, but you fire it at your head anyway, the chances are that you won't blow your brains out, despite it being risky. If, instead, I put two bullets in, the chances are still that you won't die, but the risk is going up, mirroring repeated binge-like usage of drugs like meth.

When do you decide the risk is too great? Because at any moment your luck may run out and you could die. However, the likelihood is you could repeat what you've been doing dozens of times and you'll probably recover ok each time. Which is not to say you won't be causing cumulative damage to the heart, but simply that you probably won't develop v-tach, VF, an MI etc from an single instance of usage, despite knowing that each time you do, you're effectively adding another bullet to the gun.

When you begin to appreciate how risky the game you're playing is - that one unfortunate run of bad luck and you could be in serious trouble or even die - it should help you put the risk of harm into a more appropriate perspective.

As for paramedics (and ER/A&E doctors and nurses, for example) they're hardly known for their sympathy to recreational drug users. As far as they're concerned you are wasting their time and taxpayers money - you're choosing to do something that puts your health at risk while many others they treat don't have that choice. I'm not saying their attitude is right, btw. In cases like yours and that of drug addiction, clearly it's difficult to make the right choices, which is why you're seeking help in the first place.

Tyvm for your long answer, but I still don't get what you mean by "VF", since I have gotten fast. irregular heartbeats every time I have OD'd like this.

My heart rate after 1 gram amphetamine probably looks something just like Wikipedia's example of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventricular_fibrillation#/media/File:Ventricular_fibrillation.png

"Ventricular fibrillation results in cardiac arrest with loss of consciousness and no pulse.^[1] This is followed by death in the absence of treatment"

And I've had this for hours and hours without dieing and most of the time I don't even have chest pain or much problems at all.

How come?

 

[CFC]

What many people develop when using a stim like meth is atrial fibrillation (afib/AF). You can read about it more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrial_fibrillation

It's still pretty dangerous, particularly for the development of small clots (due to stagnant eddies in the heart chambers), which can subsequently dislodge into general circulation and get stuck in the cardiac arteries, deep veins, or brain, and cause an embolism, stroke, heart attack etc.

Repeated periods of AF often leads to it becoming a permanent condition, requiring life-long treatment with blood thinners and cardiac surgery to ablate some of the heart's nerves.

VF is a more severe form of fibrillation, where electrical behaviour in the lower chambers loses all organisation. It's far more immediately lethal.

 

[CFC]

Wow. This might be one of the best posts I've ever seen. Thank you for an extremely thorough report CFC

That's a good point with the BP too. Repeated incidents of high blood pressure may continually increase your risk of having a aneurysm

Thanks mate, glad it made sense. I'm not trying to exaggerate the risks, but clearly the more people are aware of them, the more motivated they may be to limit their exposure.

 

[Psychedalienation]

I'm going to pretend you don't actually believe this.

At this point I think he is just trying not to "lose". I think he likes the anti-hero role.

 

[Ksa]

I'm going to pretend you don't actually believe this.

Taking two sentences out of context and putting them together is not a good argument. They are in separate paragraphs for a reason.

Tyvm for your long answer, but I still don't get what you mean by "VF", since I have gotten fast. irregular heartbeats every time I have OD'd like this.

My heart rate after 1 gram amphetamine probably looks something just like Wikipedia's example of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventricular_fibrillation#/media/File:Ventricular_fibrillation.png

"Ventricular fibrillation results in cardiac arrest with loss of consciousness and no pulse.^[1] This is followed by death in the absence of treatment"

Stop googling bullshit, there's nothing wrong with you. Get off the Internet for a while.

And I've had this for hours and hours without dieing and most of the time I don't even have chest pain or much problems at all.

How come?

Good question! If you had all that, how come you're still here? Because? It's bullshit! Surprise! There was never anything wrong with you!

What many people develop when using a stim like meth is atrial fibrillation (afib/AF). You can read about it more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrial_fibrillation

It's still pretty dangerous, particularly for the development of small clots (due to stagnant eddies in the heart chambers), which can subsequently dislodge into general circulation and get stuck in the cardiac arteries, deep veins, or brain, and cause an embolism, stroke, heart attack etc.

Repeated periods of AF often leads to it becoming a permanent condition, requiring life-long treatment with blood thinners and cardiac surgery to ablate some of the heart's nerves.

VF is a more severe form of fibrillation, where electrical behaviour in the lower chambers loses all organisation. It's far more immediately lethal.

He didn't devellop anything wow...how dare you reply to him like that in absence of fact? You're just trying to scare amphetamine users out of using amphetamines. Is this what this site has become? I've had 175 heart rate on 5,000 different occasions, I can't even count the amount of times that what the op describes occurred to me...thousands of times over a decade and my health is better than ever. I may not have had high BP but that heart rate at rest is nothing but normal for amphetamines. The fricken ambulance dude confirmed that!

I'm not sure you understand what using amphetamines implies in terms of physical effects. That energy doesn't come out of nowhere, the body has to work harder to produce it, and all those effects are a direct result of a sped up metabolism. The same fricken thing occurs if you run 40km: Your heart rate is 175, skipping beats, maybe not beating exactly as it should...and the heart rate doesn't go down for a while. NORMAL.

You're trying to sell the Russian Roulette analogy for amphetamine use as well? Because you know OP's amphetamine-induced paranoia makes him vulnerable to buying that bullshit? He's actually googling that bullshit instead of chilling and watching a sitcom. What you do here is unfair. You take advantage of his current mindstate to advance your own anti-drug agenda.

Do not lower your dose, that is dangerous. It creates sensitation. This makes certain parts of the process fuck up your head. And nervous system

True, that is, if he's that far gone. It's hard to tell how far he's gone but if he's really that far gone, that's decent advice.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Chill or thread gets closed. Less reactionary posts would also be appreciated. You know who you are.

 

[Psychedalienation]

Taking two sentences out of context and putting them together is not a good argument. They are in separate paragraphs for a reason.




Stop googling bullshit, there's nothing wrong with you. Get off the Internet for a while.



Good question! If you had all that, how come you're still here? Because? It's bullshit! Surprise! There was never anything wrong with you!



He didn't devellop anything wow...how dare you reply to him like that in absence of fact? You're just trying to scare amphetamine users out of using amphetamines. Is this what this site has become? I've had 175 heart rate on 5,000 different occasions, I can't even count the amount of times that what the op describes occurred to me...thousands of times over a decade and my health is better than ever. I may not have had high BP but that heart rate at rest is nothing but normal for amphetamines. The fricken ambulance dude confirmed that!

I'm not sure you understand what using amphetamines implies in terms of physical effects. That energy doesn't come out of nowhere, the body has to work harder to produce it, and all those effects are a direct result of a sped up metabolism. The same fricken thing occurs if you run 40km: Your heart rate is 175, skipping beats, maybe not beating exactly as it should...and the heart rate doesn't go down for a while. NORMAL.

You're trying to sell the Russian Roulette analogy for amphetamine use as well? Because you know OP's amphetamine-induced paranoia makes him vulnerable to buying that bullshit? He's actually googling that bullshit instead of chilling and watching a sitcom. What you do here is unfair. You take advantage of his current mindstate to advance your own anti-drug agenda.



True, that is, if he's that far gone. It's hard to tell how far he's gone but if he's really that far gone, that's decent advice.

Running long distances does not make your heart beat irregularly. Ingesting toxic chemicals at overdose quantity after long periods of abuse does.

It is a KNOWN FACT that amphetamine abuse is unhealthy for the heart among many other organs. Denying that is just ignorance or, what I believe, is you so deep into justifying your own amphetamine abuse that you actually believe that it is healthy.

Which is fine! I don't have an issue with you believing your own fantasy. But going on these long tangents to try and advocate OP that it's okay to continue using amphetamines is cruel. It's cruel because amphetamine is a seriously addicting thing as you probably know. And the more you try and convince him that's it's alright, the less likely he will want to receive help of any kind in the future.

This is a HARM REDUCTION site. Not a promotion, advocation, or explaining why toxic drugs aren't unhealthy site.

Please do not close this thread toothpaste, good advice can still be given for OP.

 

[BurritoJimmy]

A nice rule of thumb if you use meth is to always assume chest pain is dangerous. You are on a very dangerous drug and will likely die within a few years of usage, 7 years is the average, so dont write it off as panic because the drug is in fact damaging your heart.

 

[RDP89]

A nice rule of thumb if you use meth is to always assume chest pain is dangerous. You are on a very dangerous drug and will likely die within a few years of usage, 7 years is the average, so dont write it off as panic because the drug is in fact damaging your heart.

Where are you getting this 7 years figure? Pulling it out of your ass?

 

[keeping]

A nice rule of thumb if you use meth is to always assume chest pain is dangerous.

fwiw he isn't on meth, he's just taking amphetamines.

 

[Ksa]

Running long distances does not make your heart beat irregularly. Ingesting toxic chemicals at overdose quantity after long periods of abuse does.

It is a KNOWN FACT that amphetamine abuse is unhealthy for the heart among many other organs. Denying that is just ignorance or, what I believe, is you so deep into justifying your own amphetamine abuse that you actually believe that it is healthy.

Are you ware that amphetamines are prescribed for ADHD and for many it's a lifetime medication that's much safer than Tylenol? Amphetamines are only toxic in toxic doses.

It is fairly easy to abuse amphetamines for a lifetime without ever crossing into toxicity. Abuse does not equal toxicity. Lack of knowledge does.

Which is fine! I don't have an issue with you believing your own fantasy. But going on these long tangents to try and advocate OP that it's okay to continue using amphetamines is cruel. It's cruel because amphetamine is a seriously addicting thing as you probably know. And the more you try and convince him that's it's alright, the less likely he will want to receive help of any kind in the future.

This is a HARM REDUCTION site. Not a promotion, advocation, or explaining why toxic drugs aren't unhealthy site.

Please do not close this thread toothpaste, good advice can still be given for OP.

I don't encourage the OP to take toxic doses. I advocate knowledge, research and safe use of drugs, in safe doses. That's what this site is about: Providing a safe modus operandi to reduce harm. That's why there's CWE topics, IV topics etc. Not to advocate against drugs, but to promote safe drug usage through knowledge, research and a sincere effort to reduce harm.

As far as the OP is concerned, there is no evidence that he took a toxic dose. If he did I urge him to revise his dosing methods and quantities. However, since he is googling things like "heart attack" or "heart failure", this is evidence enough to suggest that OP is having a panic attack, and that's not fueled by amphetamine toxicity, but by baseless assumptions made by many in this topic.

 

[gmlifer]

Not trying to step in the middle of anything but this thread has some seriously knowledgeable people gathered so I'm going to take advantage of that and ask a question.

What would a not safe/toxic dose of vyvanse or adderall be? I like to play with both of them from time to time. Also, I take oxycodone at the same time every time I take them.

 

[keeping]

^ follow the directions on the label

 

[gmlifer]

^ follow the directions on the label

Lol, that was funny bro. You follow the directions on your labels? ;-)

 

[Psychedalienation]

Not trying to step in the middle of anything but this thread has some seriously knowledgeable people gathered so I'm going to take advantage of that and ask a question.

What would a not safe/toxic dose of vyvanse or adderall be? I like to play with both of them from time to time. Also, I take oxycodone at the same time every time I take them.

According to an old bluelight post, the LD50 (the dose that will kill 50% of the people taking it) for amphetamines in rats is 5mg/kg. Taking amphetamines with opiates simultaneously can be very dangerous for the heart. I would suggest not doing that.

 

[Psychedalienation]

Are you ware that amphetamines are prescribed for ADHD and for many it's a lifetime medication that's much safer than Tylenol? Amphetamines are only toxic in toxic doses.

It is fairly easy to abuse amphetamines for a lifetime without ever crossing into toxicity. Abuse does not equal toxicity. Lack of knowledge does.




I don't encourage the OP to take toxic doses. I advocate knowledge, research and safe use of drugs, in safe doses. That's what this site is about: Providing a safe modus operandi to reduce harm. That's why there's CWE topics, IV topics etc. Not to advocate against drugs, but to promote safe drug usage through knowledge, research and a sincere effort to reduce harm.

As far as the OP is concerned, there is no evidence that he took a toxic dose. If he did I urge him to revise his dosing methods and quantities. However, since he is googling things like "heart attack" or "heart failure", this is evidence enough to suggest that OP is having a panic attack, and that's not fueled by amphetamine toxicity, but by baseless assumptions made by many in this topic.

Many in this forum are trying to help an amphetamine addict who is having chest pains out. You are the ONLY person telling him he is fine.

Don't you think that if by some chance, you are right, that it is better safe than sorry? The OP already stated he takes OD doses.

I am not advocating against drugs. I do them myself and have no problem with anyone else doing them. I'm here to help people form killing or harming themselves.

 

[RDP89]

Taking amphetamines with opiates simultaneously can be very dangerous for the heart. I would suggest not doing that.

Do you have a legitimate source for this? I'm genuinely curious, and I'm unable to find anything other than speculation.