Blending kratom

[Mike logan]

I've ordered 3 different strains of red* white*green kratom. I hear that each strain has its own qualities red for more sedating effects green is I think like a mixture of red an white stimulating an focus. Am white which is more stimulating than coffee. I've yet to try each batch but a thought just occurred to me what if I mix a bit of red an white together will I feel like I've had a codeine with some caffeine, will it feel sorta like that? Has anyone mixed their different strains together to bring out a bit of each other

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Are they still on the way ? or received already otherwise patience a bit more.

Kratom is on of my most benign list so forgiving for me. Way less sharp edges then Weed or Alcohol, and easier available. Love it. Before busting out biased conclusions on the perceived effects online. Sipped the last of 2.2 gr. Super Red Borneo [SRB]. Think its staring now. Almost to much Empty iron stomach ...

edit in the Alkaloid profile this one was nausseating ther are 3 types of RVB

Super Red Borneo
Mitragynine 0.641
Speciociliatine 0.206
Paynantheine 0.144
Speciogynine 0.0830
7-HydroxyMitragynine <0.800
Isorhynochophylline <0.0473
Mitraphylline <0.0473
Total Alkaloids 1.04 %

Nausea is round the corner. Settling nice so far pushed the dose to get a feel normally i ll stay lower. My vendor asked a review on the product. Finding the sweet spot. Besides SRB: red/ brown color. Borneo Red Vain: green, less bright then Matcha. Classic Red Borneo. According to the info the differences are between Young leaves: white vein and Older: green and red vein.



Fermentation processes used giving different alkaloid ratios. Along factors like the age of the Trees and specific genomic of the subspecies. Maybe the freshness plays part to ? Used to buy from the same source but then from the source. One doing orders could write Dutch so we corresponded a while for fun. And the leaves where harvested from the wild as well plantations. But all products about ~double as headship stuff.

All the products came from Indonesia or indo. Borneo/ Hulu/ Sumatra ... and also Bali is a part of the archipel. Afaik & the vendors here claim. One does sell it but its grown in Kalimantan. Historically no Kratom on Bali. Just a naming like 'Maeng da' which is a strong local variety from Thailand. Just like the Malay/ Malaysian types og-ed there.

There different trees or they made up White Elephant. referring to a big leaf variety. but i had good greens, whites and reds. And they all varied from red/ brown through green till white/ green. Still none felt exactly the same strength/ effect/ nausea ratio.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Kratom vendor had the last batch lab tested
using HLPC-UV, AOAC 2017.14

Red Vein Borneo [Green in color]
Mitragynine 1.28
Speciociliatine 0.302
Paynantheine 0.199
Speciogynine 0.140
7-HydroxyMitragynine <0.800
Isorhynochophylline <0.0493
Mitraphylline <0.0493
Total Alkaloids 1.92 %

They also did the others if there is interest i ll post them.

 

[chippermonk]

Kratom is kind of mysterious to me the way the effects can vary from time to time and batch to batch. I know what they say regarding white vs green vs red but I'm not persuaded that it it is altogether true. I am curious though about how levels of the various alkaloids vary from batch to batch. I also really feel like there are subtle effects, from some of the lesser alkaloids perhaps, that continue to affecting me even after the high part wears off.
However, I have to say, kratom has reached a point where it's kind of uninspiring to me and I don't think upping the dose is going to help. Less is more in my mind

 

[General alcazar]

I really don’t feel a difference between strains. I always order an assortment, but they all have the same effects for me. I don’t mix them though, always hoping the next bag will be different. So far not really. I do feel that effects can vary from one use to the next. I assume it has more to do with absorption, like a full or empty stomach, etc

 

[emkee_reinvented]

White Elephant Kratom

Mitragynine 1.61
Speciociliatine 0.296
Paynantheine 0.276
Speciogynine 0.188
7-HydroxyMitragynine <0.800
Isorhynochophylline <0.0461
Mitraphylline <0.0461
Total Alkaloids 2.37 %

Speciociliatine seems to have about 3 fold activity compared with Mitragynine
Paynantheine & Speciogynine have affinity for 5-HT1A and 5-HT2B subtypes

Maybe the ratios can explain some of the differences. But classing them like Stimulating, painkilling, sedating sounds bit like the Sativa vs Indica with Cannabis BS.

 

[chippermonk]

I really don’t feel a difference between strains. I always order an assortment, but they all have the same effects for me. I don’t mix them though, always hoping the next bag will be different. So far not really. I do feel that effects can vary from one use to the next. I assume it has more to do with absorption, like a full or empty stomach, etc

Yeah, agreed, though I think some batches are just plain not that good

 

[chippermonk]

Among the many questions with no really satisfying answers about kratom I have is, I have read that it is a pretty strong inhibitor of CYP2D6 and CYP3A4. Apparently this can cause a lot of possible interactions with other drugs, both psychoactive and non, as the majority of drugs are metabolized by them, leading to a lot varied side effects maybe varying from day to day. It would slow down the metabolism of many drugs, maybe prolong their effects or conversely cause them not to work at all ( codeine and tramadol probably), maybe build up to dangerous levels if they aren't be eliminated, maybe damage the liver because it's working harder.
There are a lot of common drugs in our everyday lives that could be affected ( and therefore might also affect the kratom high)
(But I make zero claims to knowing shit about the subject)

 

[Rabbit]

You should familiarize yourself with each strain (and each batch) before mixing them. Yes the difference colors of kratom has different effects depending on batch/vendor/grower/supplier and if they're being truthful about what they're labeling each batch as. Furthermore, I dislike whites, greens are semi-okay and I prefer "reds" depending on the brand/batch. For me: Reds better for after a day of hard work where I require sleep after a few hours. Greens are better for when I'm doing hard work in the sun all day with maybe a bit of a red to help with pain killer effects (reds seem better at controlling chronic pain for me).

Yes kratom can greatly extend the effects of extracts, stuff like 7-oh (and the many spin-offs) and even other opioids. BUT you need to be careful with this because can it further over work your liver and many of these 7-oh pills and their many spin-offs are not what they claim to be and who knows what else they might have in. This is true as kratom as well. Got many a batch of headshop crap over the years that was everything from really good pure kratom, to kratom mixed with some kind of RC or pure bunk. On the bunk front, both times it came from brands that I'd bought many times before that I know for a fact are/were good. But those particular batches were either something like diatomaceous earth they'd been cutting the stuff with and one particular bag got filled with all diatomaceous earth by mistake with no real kratom and/or the kratom within it was very old and no longer active. Maybe because it was the bottom of a large batch they were putting in bags for shipments and all the crap had fallen to the bottom. Both times this happened to me the owner of the store was more than willing to trade me for a fresh bag. Since at the time I was buying from his local source every week for many months/years and it was obvious the batch was bunk because I was in full blown withdrawal and felt nothing from it (plus the taste/texture made it obvious something was very off).

You should also be aware that no matter where you source kratom: You have no idea how it was harvested, prepared before being bagged and shipped. In other words: You could be getting some leaves that weren't allowed to full mature, were dried incorrectly, sat on the ground for a long time before being collected and could be filled with all manner of things you do not want to be consuming. Like parasite eggs and many other stuff you don't want. Then there is the fact that the person(s) that were touching it might have not done basic things like wear gloves, wash their hands after smearing poop all over them or even did something like pissed on the leaves just because they know people are making massive profits off of it both overseas and within their own country while they're working as a slave and/or for slave wage long hours in the sun for weeks without a break. You can't blame such people for "sticking it to the man" by doing something nasty out of anger. Even if that anger is misplaced.

Be aware with 7-oh getting banned in several states a lot of horrible RCs are popping up on the market now that are frankly really bad for your health. They cause dependence and withdrawal symptoms on-par or worse than some pharma opioids including some like methdaone. I got talked into trying some non-7-oh pills from a vendor I won't name last week. That made me feel horrible and lasted WAY longer than 7-oh/kratom should have. The w/d from it was not pleasant. Way worse than 7-oh which I can easily cover with some small kratom dose the next morning if I want. Using sublingual dosing with those pills I tried even burned my mouth and tasted freakin' awful. The worse part? The company selling those pills have packages labeled "contains 7-oh" or "contains MGM15 (or whatever)" on the front of the package. But flip it over and read the ingredients where it clearly states "<x company> alkaloid". If you search on the web you'll get like 5 pages total asking about them and no one has any idea wtf really in them.

Now I was stupid and shouldn't have taken them. But I stupidly trusted what it said on the front of the package (I know...) and really hurt that day. So I put one under my tongue as normal and knew right off something was up. I searched the web and some people were concerned about it not really being 7-oh but there were mixed reviews. Some said it did nothing. Some said it was better and lasted way longer. So I took the gamble and took the other half of the pill. Bad idea. I did nod (for the first time in years!) and felt good for maybe an hour. But the next 6 hours? Constant headaches and the nod was quickly gone. I had to take an aspirin to stop the headache and threw the other 3 pills in the garbage. I go into the tobacco shop today and the guy is trying to sell me more pills because now he thinks I'm hooked I guess. I told him I didn't like the ones he sold me last week. He said "no worries my friend!" and pulls out packages of like 5 different "brands". All of which said the exact thing on the back: same proprietary alkaloid". Obviously, the same company selling the same mystery RC under different "brands" all claiming 7-oh or pseudo or MGM-whatever and all the other crap on the market now. I declined.

Guy keeps assuring me "very strong my friend! these are all good!". Only reason I bought pills from him 5 weeks ago for the first time is because he sold me a bottle of legit 7-oh pills (30 count bottle) for a very low price. They were the best I'd ever tried so far. Since similar pills are super expensive locally. We can't discuss prices here but let me put it this way. mg for mg I bought that 30 count bottle for what 2-3 similar pills mg wise would got double compared to paid this guy I'd been buying tobacco from for 25+ years.

He's been promising me for 3 weeks now he'd get more of those 30 count bottles in soon and sell them to me for the same price he did before. But every week when I go in to pick up my weekly 6oz of loose tobacco he claims he hasn't got stock yet. Then he tries to give me a "good deal" on this other crap. Which I'm starting to suspect he can't move at all because 7-oh isn't banned in my state and the crap he's trying to sell me only exists to dodge the recent bans in other states.

Meanwhile, the place where I buy kratom that stocks legit 7-oh (and other RC correctly labeled) have jacked up their prices on all that shit every month for the last 6 months. Used to be you could walk out of there for almost no money and get enough pills to last someone with a non-blown out tolerance a week or more. Now the same products despite not changing at all have quadrupled in price. You'd have to be grocery money to sustain even a mild habit. Before you could sustain a habit on gas money (before gasoline recently increased so highly in price).

Again not trying to violate price discussion rule. I just wanted to point out: These smoke shops are taking advantage of people that they've gotten hooked on this stuff. I know it isn't the suppliers. Since I've seen what these stores are paying to stock this stuff. But I suppose I should be happy the price of kratom itself hasn't skyrocketed like this.

Now you may think I'm an idiot for not buying online anymore. But here is the the thing: I know I could get something like 7-oh and even kratom much cheaper online. But I want to pay cash for it. I want to support my local business(s). More importantly: I don't want my purcahse of substances tracked by all the tech companies/Government. Yes, they can track your purchases. Even if you use crypto. I don't care what kind. I've said before but when the gift card thing stopped I lost interest in purchasing a lot of stuff online. You can't use the visa/mastercard cash cards like that anymore. You can't even sign-up for stuff like streaming services with them now (I tried just today for someone. It was straight rejected because it wasn't a real credit/debit card). I don't want to deal with the pain in the all that comes with crypto or pay the huge upcharge for transfer fees over the network+fees for using things like bitcoin ATMs and more importantly I know attempting to their origin through tumbling them or transferring them into another form of crypto is useless. Since the Five Eyes see everything.

Back on topic: You need to be careful with kratom as well. I have been hooked on it going on a decade now. I wish I wouldn't have started. Since I got on it after going cold turkey on methadone twice and later bupe. It wasn't worth getting started.

Now I have horrible chronic pain and I'd be lying if I said it really didn't help me function day-to-day. However, it has caused me all sorts of health problems. I susepct a kidney stone from chronic use. It has caused problems for my hair (it breaks easily and started within 2 weeks of starting my kratom use). Not being able to sleep more than 4-6 hours due to both is short duration and effect of keeping you slightly "wired" post-dosing (even reds) really really sucks. It makes you sweat like nothing else when you try to work out in the hot weather. It has a bunch of problems like that including doing stuff turning your hair white. Oh and it really does a number on your liver and kidneys. I could go on if you want.

Waking up at 2am after falling asleep at 10pm because your body started going into withdrawal and you need to swallow that nasty pre-measured dose you left on the nightstand just so you can hopefully sleep a few more hours is horrible. So is managing to sleep 6-7 hours when you're lucky only to wake up horrible sweating, running nose, eyes, need to shit RIGHT NOW and the coughing fits isn't great either. Oh and kratom makes you smoke tobacco/nicotine like a frieght train like no other drug out there (harder opioids included). Never mind the daily massive number 2s you'll be dropping first thing in the morning and all throughout the day if you maintain a decent diet. I'm talking logs so big they'll clog a high flow toilet if you aren't careful. Then now and again you'll get some rock hard massive lumps that might as well be what rabbits poop on the daily.

I know this got long and I know kratom is a god send for people that need something OTC for pain and to help steer clear of harder opioids. But do not delude yourself into thinking it's NOT and opioid. In many ways it's worse withdrawal wise to opioids like oxycodone because it hits so many different receptors in the brain. W/d from it is on a different level due to its anti-depressant effects.

But it's certainly much better than things like methadone/bupe. For many reasons. The most important one is not having to piss in a cup all of the time, showing up at 6am for your morning dose of juice, ruining your teeth with the bupe strips and stuff like methadone lasting so long that w/d from it hurts down to your bones and can take 1.5-2 weeks just to pass the acute phase (if not longer, it took me 1.5 weeks on 10mg a day when I jumped to pass acute withdrawals).

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Being a bit weary of pollutions that can get in heavy metals or on the product like hair shit and earth particles glad they do seem to have been working on it. Besides homogenizing the products being tested and sterilized with some sort of food like protocols.

Vendor : "kratom batches are sterilized by food-grade gamma irradiation. This is the same technique used in the food and pharmaceutical industries to kill bacteria, fungi, and other microorganisms, insects, and pests. It is a non-chemical method that does not change the alkaloid profile. After sterilization, the kratom is clean and free of microorganisms."

Red Borneo Classic

Mitragynine 0.994
Speciociliatine 0.262
Paynantheine 0.177
Speciogynine 0.138
7-Hydroxymitragynine < 0.800
Isorhynchophylline < 0.0481
Mitraphylline < 0.0481
Total Alkaloids 1.57

Arsenic (As) 0.118 mg/kg (ppm)
Cadmium (Cd) 0.022 mg/kg (ppm)
Lead (Pb) 0.384 mg/kg (ppm)
Mercury (Hg) 0.016 mg/kg (ppm)


Aerobic Plate Count AOAC 2015.13 < 100 CFU/g
Total Coliform Bacteria AOAC OM 2018.13 < 100 CFU/g
Enterobacteriaceae AOAC 2003.01 < 100 CFU/g
Escherichia coli AOAC OM 2018.13 < 100 CFU/g
Staphylococcus aureus AOAC 2003.07 < 100 CFU/g
Yeast and Mold AOAC RI 121301 < 100 CFU/g
Salmonella spp. AOAC 081201 (BAX® PCR) Negative /25 g
Shiga toxin-producing E. coli AOAC 091301 (BAX® PCR) Negative /25 g

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Testing the White Elephant Kratom. So technically a white Vein variety from a tree type that has bigger leaves. The actual color of the product green but not as light as the Red Vein Borneo my current favorite. Thats a bit like Matcha but less Chlorophylic.

The total Alkaloid 2.37 vs 1.92 % bit of difference in the ratios of the Alkaloids. But what i like about this strain its green color. Seems i favor the grren looking ones a bit. Biased ?

2 gram should be about 2.3 of RVB lets go ingesting as of now