Opioids Bizarre and maddening effect of Kratom comedown

[IamMe90]

Hi all, I'm currently experiencing one of the most frustrating side effects I've ever experienced from a drug. I used kratom 3 times yesterday, once at 2pm, once at 9pm and once at 10pm. The doses were not too high, 3g, 3g, 5g, pretty ordinary kratom. The actual effects of the kratom were consistent with past experiences.

Right now I feel totally cracked out and unable to sleep and it's been a good 8 and a half hours since I've taken any kratom. I feel insane in a particularly bizarre and frustrating way. When I am conscious and doing something like typing this message or reading, I can maintain lucidity just fine. But when I close my eyes and try to go to sleep, as soon as I start losing consciousness I'll hallucinate vivid images of random things like people, cars, etc, and start producing an absolutely incoherent and wild train of thought about them. It's like as soon as I start to fade out I start having uncontrollable thoughts that make no sense, and it wakes me up. I've been laying here doing this for about 5 hours. I'm hydrated, have eaten in the last 5 hours and nothing else seems to be particularly wrong.

Has anyone else experienced anything quite like this? This seems like a bizarre side effect of kratom, something more along the lines of stimulant psychosis from a large binge, but I would not call what I did a "binge" and kratom has never produced pronounced comedown effects like a stimulant does for me. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could get rid of this or go to sleep? I have no access right now to any useful drugs like benzodiazepines, synthetic opiates or alcohol. Appreciate any input, thanks.

 

[badjaja]

I have experienced this multiple times, always in connection with serotonergic drugs. What concerns me is that the drug that always did this to me is O-desmethyltramadol. This was used to spike an earlier kratom product called Krypton, and caused many overdose deaths in Sweden.

As for how you get rid of this effect, i always just let it play out, you'll fall asleep eventually.

 

[Putingrad]

As a regular user of kratom, I can attest that the drug is at it's weirdest when you're laying down and trying to get to sleep. The imagery can get very strange indeed, and it's often accompanied by a very physical "jerking awake" that can go on for an annoyingly long time sometimes. Additionally, there was a period of time where I would often come close to panic attacks during this stage, complete with racing heart, etc.

I am plagued by these problems very infrequently these days because I've learned the doses that work for me. The single biggest factor that causes these negatives of kratom to come out is dosing too high, and the plant is notoriously hard to gauge in terms of dose, even for seasoned users but especially for those newer to it. One interesting thing about kratom is that it will never stop surprising you and you'll experience very paradoxical things on it at times.

My advice to avoid the problem you're having now is to try and dose a bit lower and never dose past 6 or 7PM (this is a personal rule of mine to help avoid the kratom sleep weirdness).

As an aside, there's definitely a certain SOMETHING to kratom that I and others have described as serotonergic, although little in the pharmacological profile of its alkaloids supports the notion that this is a big contributor to the experience, despite the alkaloids' close relation to yohimbine. In any case, whatever's going on there outside of mu agonism can be very fickle and always puzzling.

 

[Badstones]

Does anyone think this could just simply be the speedy effect of opioids just playing itself out ? If I dose close to bed I can damn near guarantee these effects, I have to wait until my buzz mellows out before I can go to sleep. Smoking weed sometimes helps, but generally just makes things even more bizarre and irritating. The only thing that has ever helped me with this feeling is benzo's or alcohol, and there is a downside to using those as well.

-Sunshine.

 

[Dexed]

I get this too, with all opiates. Methinks sleep paralysis and/or hypnagogic hallucinations.

 

[sekio]

Opioids are known to induce "dream states", I remember reading about it even in Confessions of an Opium Eater.

Kratom in particular is also an adrenergic stimulant.

 

[Woodsong]

I used to get the same thing when I first started taking kratom... I always thought it was kinda cool, actually. I got to where I could either manipulate whatever 'hallucination' I was having, or provoke whatever sort of lucid dream I wanted to have. I eventually stopped getting this side-effect after (ab)using it for a while... Try a melatonin+valerian root combo. You can get both of these at plenty of grocery stores in the vitamin section or at a vitamin/supplement store.

 

[ErgicMergic]

Like others have said, opioids cause these kind of hypnagogic dream states, and the adrenergenic stimulant effects of varieties like Thai, MD, Sumatra, and other White Veined Kratom can really be quite physically stimulating, hence the "cracked out" feelings.

I would not use Kratom or any other opioid in the last 6-8 hours before bed if you can help it, especially not a stimulating variety, as all opioids tend to diminish sleep quality and are all stimulating to a degree due to released dopamine. Try Bali Kratom instead, it is quite sedating.

Badjaja, O-Des is quite expensive to cut plain leaf Kratom with, just doesn't make sense from a vendor's perspective. Krypton, which wasn't even a legitimate Kratom product, has been the only one reported to contain it, so don't worry. Plain leaf Kratom is a delightfully weak, medicinal, miracle plant.

 

[MaxWebXperienZ]

Thanks for the thread. I've been taking powdered leaf 3x/daily in coffee up until pretty late in the evening, I think I'll shift it back to late afternoon at the latest.

Kratom is good stuff really. My friend has fibromyalgia and a methadone prescription, she liked the Kratom 2mg/3x daily better. Good pain relief and far less problems with balance, easier wd's, etc...

 

[helium-4]

Opioids disturb your sleep patterns and can even make it harder to sleep. Though of course when you nod out you can sleep for a little bit, but a lot of the time once the high goes away you wake up and don't fall asleep/stay asleep as easy. Its a frustrating side-effect as I have problems sleeping already and I have to take clonazepam with my methadone so I can actually stay asleep.

 

[Opanaking]

I had this same thing happen to me. Like a full on panic attack from kratom during withdrawal. that's why it's not even worth it to me to use it as a withdrawal aid anymore. Use kratom very sparingly, even then it has really random effects. I took it when I felt normal one time and felt like shit after taking it. Other times it's given me a nice boost like a mild hydrocodone high.