Bioavailability/Half-life MEGA Thread

[Astavats]

^Is that true, smoking weed before snorting cocaine part? Also would that work for any intranasal/smoked combination, or is there something behind those two specifics? Sorry for asking so many questions, just curious.

 

[klowns]

ive got a question. anyone know the info on zolpidem> maybe i missed it but i didnt see it. i would like to know oral, nasal, and rectal if anyone has that info. also, if its not on here, i know the bios for doxylamine. 28.5 oral, and 70 nasal.
peace

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

intranasal bioavailability for methlyphenidate?

I've heard oral is 11-52% and intranasal is much higher maybe around 50-70% does anyone know?

Amphetamine bioavailability:

Intranasally: 75%
Orally: 25-50%
Plugging: 98-99%
IV/IM: 99-100%
Smoked: ???

anyone wanna fill me in on their opinions?

 

[adder]

I'm getting 1mg lorazepam real soon and one post says it's effective intranasally in 78% and I heard it takes up to an hour to kick in orally. So, I just wanted to make sure if it isn't a mistake because loprazolam can be snorted for sure and maybe someone mistook. Can't wait to try it as I'm reading mixed opinions. Also, I'd love to IV it. So, what reason do I need to get a script on vials?

 

[sonic]

I'm getting 1mg lorazepam real soon and one post says it's effective intranasally in 78% and I heard it takes up to an hour to kick in orally. So, I just wanted to make sure if it isn't a mistake because loprazolam can be snorted for sure and maybe someone mistook. Can't wait to try it as I'm reading mixed opinions. Also, I'd love to IV it. So, what reason do I need to get a script on vials?

Not sure where you got that info from. According to rxlist: It (lorazepam) is a nearly white powder almost insoluble in water.
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/loraz.htm

Water solubility is usually a good indicator whether a substance can effectively be snorted or not. There is some debate whether or not lipid(fat) soluble drugs can be snorted, but even if they can, it isn't efficient. If I were you I'd just take it orally.
Especially since you probably won't be getting pure lorazepam powder.

 

[klowns]

sonic could you please explain why then benzos work sublinugaully? because according your your logic, benzo wouldnt work subling. but i dont know anyone you takes them any other way than that. water soluability has shit to do with anything. zaleplon i completely insoluable in water i blieve and when you snort it you feel the effects in about 3-5 second. way before it would have time to drip into your stomache. also it is efficient, becasue whatever doesnt absorb iss going to drip down into your stomache anyways, so you arent wasting any drug. while id agree that its best not to snort pills, i just wanted to point out that it certainly does work.

 

[johanneschimpo]

Amphetamine bioavailability:

Intranasally: 75%
Orally: 2550%
Plugging: 98-99%
IV/IM: 99-100%
Smoked: ???

anyone wanna fill me in on their opinions?

damn! I'm taking all my amps orally from now on!

I'm getting 1mg lorazepam real soon and one post says it's effective intranasally in 78% and I heard it takes up to an hour to kick in orally. So, I just wanted to make sure if it isn't a mistake because loprazolam can be snorted for sure and maybe someone mistook. Can't wait to try it as I'm reading mixed opinions. Also, I'd love to IV it. So, what reason do I need to get a script on vials?

a damn good one (for a script for vials). but no, lorazepam isn't water soluble. Could you still snort it? I guess, if you really wanted to. But your best off taking it sublingually, and slamming your loprazolam. Jasoncrest may be able to assist you if you need help prepping it, I'm pretty sure he knows how to do it

 

[sonic]

sonic could you please explain why then benzos work sublinugaully? because according your your logic, benzo wouldnt work subling. but i dont know anyone you takes them any other way than that. water soluability has shit to do with anything. zaleplon i completely insoluable in water i blieve and when you snort it you feel the effects in about 3-5 second. way before it would have time to drip into your stomache. also it is efficient, becasue whatever doesnt absorb iss going to drip down into your stomache anyways, so you arent wasting any drug. while id agree that its best not to snort pills, i just wanted to point out that it certainly does work.

Benzos work sublingual because the membranes under your tongue aren't the same as the membranes in your nose. As I have mentioned many times before in almost any thread where this debate comes up, there is some debate as to whether or not lipid soluble drugs can be snorted. It is my belief that fat soluble drugs can be absorbed to a certain extent, it's just a question about how well they are absorbed, and usually the answer seems to be that it's not an effective method of administration.

I think it really depends on the drug in question. In the case of most benzos, lots of well experienced seasoned benzo experts (such as the infamous negrogesic) who have tried snorting many different pure benzo powders, just don't find it to be overly efficient.

Some of the powder will end up clogged in your nose and will never make it down your throat. Granted, if you irrigate your nose afterward this can be minimized and if you really feel like snorting a pure benzo powder, it probably isn't going to be a total waste.

In the case of sublingual administration even less of the powder gets wasted because whatever doesn't get absorbed, eventually will be swallowed.

One more thing: Water solubility IS a good indicator of whether or not a drug can be snorted successfully. Prove me otherwise.

 

[Crimethink]

While water solubility is certainly a good positive correlate for a sucessful snort the reverse isn't nessessarily implied. Xanax (Alprazolam), is a good example of a benzo that generally works better insuffalated.

I think a good deal of the perceived increase in strength/ effect with snorting when bioavailability is so similar (for the sake of discussion) b\t oral & insuffalation as to not account for the difference comes from active transport & passive diffusion from the nasal cavity, through the olfactory nerve bundles & to the brain.

See the following abstract on intranasal benzoylecognine yielding higher brain tissue to plasma ratios:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14091330

Transport & behavioral changes from intranasal GABA in mice:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p30v578tv2601l0t/

Substantially increased absorption of Nimodipine(not water soluble), after intranasal administration (1.17% to 64%?!) :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15066224&dopt=Abstract

Perhaps someone else can provide info on the solubilities of the last two compounds, I was unable to see with a cursory search whether nimodipine is lipid soluble or not.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

damn! I'm taking all my amps orally from now on!

25-50

 

[Crimethink]

I forgot to mention that with the direct nose-to-brain drug transport signifigantly higher drug concentrations can be acheived in the brain- particularly in the areas near where the olfactory nerve (nerves that carry scent signal) terminate in the brain. Parts of the brain near the olfactory nerve termination include areas involved in emotion, reward, goal directed behavior & more. This is good of course if you wanta get high, but if you're predisposed to addiction there is evidence that snorting may pose a non-trivial risk.

I was told by 2 board certified neurologists, one of whom worked with Glaxo Smith Kline doing the drug design of Imitrex that he'd rather see me getting 4-5 shots of IV or IM Demerol or Stadol per month, than have just 1 or 2 sprays of intranasal Stadol. I was puzzled, same drug- lower bioavailability I said, takes 5-15+ minutes versus total bioavail. with onset in seconds or a minute or two (IV, IM).
He explained that it was the mode of administration, & I verified this later in my own research.

I didn't listen. And I paid for it, dearly.

 

[klowns]

sonic, your logic is completely flawed and outdated. it has been showed numerous times throughout these threads and throughout med literature that a drug need not be water soluable to be snorted. this debate is so outdated its rediculous that you are still clinging to these notions. ill have to go do some research but basicaly, a drug has to be either water, or fat soluable to be effecient nasaly. of course water soluability is a good indicator it will work well snorted. but so is lipid soluability. i dont want to debate this further because the answer is already known; drugs need not be soluable in water to be snorted. also, many say that it will not work becasue only a few mg are in the pill.......well, that one to 10 mg or whatever is NOT located in just one part of the pill. it is evenly distributed throughout that pill, so any of the powder that comes into contact with mucous membranes will allow absorbtion. ill find some references.......

 

[supernatural29]

anyone found more detailed bioavailability info for dexmethylphenidate(focalin). ritalin (methylphenidate) stats will do because its so very similar

 

[klowns]

ill look right now on that supernatural29..... its got to be out there somewhere.

 

[sonic]

sonic, your logic is completely flawed and outdated. it has been showed numerous times throughout these threads and throughout med literature that a drug need not be water soluable to be snorted. this debate is so outdated its rediculous that you are still clinging to these notions. ill have to go do some research but basicaly, a drug has to be either water, or fat soluable to be effecient nasaly. of course water soluability is a good indicator it will work well snorted. but so is lipid soluability. i dont want to debate this further because the answer is already known; drugs need not be soluable in water to be snorted. also, many say that it will not work becasue only a few mg are in the pill.......well, that one to 10 mg or whatever is NOT located in just one part of the pill. it is evenly distributed throughout that pill, so any of the powder that comes into contact with mucous membranes will allow absorbtion. ill find some references.......

WTF are you talking about? I said a lipid soluble drug has the potential to be absorbed partially by your mucus membranes but that oral administration would be better. IME you shouldn't bother snorting most drugs that aren't water soluble, benzos at least. Sublingual administration is the way to go. Which kinda proved that fat soluble drugs are absorbed by different membranes in your body. I've read you have to mix something like PEG 300 to make a benzo like diazepam soluble and be able to snort it or use other methods of admin.

 

[Pegasus]

In the case of most benzos, lots of well experienced seasoned benzo experts (such as the infamous negrogesic) who have tried snorting many different pure benzo powders, just don't find it to be overly efficient.

Negrogesic was talking about diazepam specifically because there is no "rush" from any route... He mentions in the same post that you are referencing that he did get good effects from clonazepam nasally, and from experience I can say that alprazolam gives nice effects when insuffulated. Equally efficient, it may not be... but it does give effects that you do not get from oral admin.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

jcrest

librium (chlorodiazepoxide) is pretty worthwhile snorted plgged or iv'ed

it gives a rush , i know it has to bet metabolized in the liver or whateverb but the ffects aere instantenous and you get a small rush when plugging or decent one when iv'ing

i've snorted it before, BUT i did it in almost complete darkness, read online (drugs.com or rxlist.com) that its not stable if light contacts it, so i tried to keep it out of the light (don't know why, guess i didn't wanna snort an unstable drug LOL ) anyway, i DID get a rush, and have the other two times i've done it. its strange, glad to hear i'm not alone! i've snorted other benzos and did not get any rush, xanax, valium, klonopin, etc. librium is the only one i got a rush from.


and the bioavailabilities for Methylphenidate (Ritalin).....

intranasal: 55-72% (i believe, can't find the source at the moment)
oral: 11-52%
rectal: ?
IV: 99-100% ?
IM: ?


but it really does feel like 5mg insuffilated Ritalin = 8-10mg orally. at least IME

 

[soundthecymbals]

codeine 90% oral; 90% rectal

Rectal wouldn't work (or intranasal, and IV causes pulmonary edema). Codeine has to be metabolized into morphine to have any effect.

 

[phr]

^
When you take something rectally, about 60% of your dose bypasses the first pass effect. I guess you're right, you may be at risk of a pulmonary edema if that much makes it directly to your bloodstream.

 

[jscript]

Codeine has to be metabolized into morphine to have any effect.

isn't that a common misconception? im sure i have read that it isnt only its metabolism to morphine that gives it effect...