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Opioids Best non narcotic drug for dealing with opiate withdrawal joint pains

I have been going through withdrawal. From opiates lately, and let me tell u, take enough kratom, the purple package of the royal Bali strain, and it eliminates withdrawal. It hits your opiate receptors like opiates, I didn't believe it until I tried it. Crazy.
 
my Dog used 20mg adderall cut into 5mg dosages every 4-6 hours and found it extremely successful compared to cold turkey. He had no previous stim usage at all and a heavy opiate habit each time. He rates the adderall method used 8/10 and cold turkey 0/10. So you can see the draw to this method.

Have at least 6-7 days of adderall saved up calculated at what you think your dog may need, maybe he will need more or less, my dog just can give u account of what worked for stim naive canine such as him.

My dog dosed every 4 -6 hours setting 5-6 days of dosages out with planned times in a clear area with a clock and a stop watch to be doubly sure. He was really strict on himself and dosed no more after he knew first 5mg dose took most of edge off. He would guess it takes away 80% of bad symptoms in its peak.. and it drifts down to maybe 40% when he felt it wearing off... It helps him also by making time go really fast, which is useful as my dog didn't even realize 3 hours has past till it stops peaking (he just focused on a task he found fun like poker). Because my dog mentally knows he can repeat exp too it gives him extra courage to squeeze out 30 more mins or an hour often extra between dosages.. My dog suggests doing as much gaps as you can tolerate between dosing...so the payment later is also painless.

So he wouldn't call it sailing.. but it was MUCH easier than a cold turkey and that's only exp my dog can compare too... in days 6 and 7 he suffered equally and his body was drained even more so maybe after adderall method, so I think your body still feels everything underneath. But VERY useful if your loved one is too weak willed or addictied to quit cold turkey... I think most humans /canines could make it through doing this with great success 90% rate if its done right and they have any desire to quit legit at all. Just be careful not to run out and crash down during a day 3 opiate withdrawl... my dog read that's hell. Totally worth the risk for the increased chance of success if you plan well and research all posts and articles on it... cold turkey is not for everyone, enjoy additional exp my dog can provide on this topic. Let him know if his method helped you at all, curious to see if it can help other puppies. Peace! and gl!

I see people add xanax.. I don't think its needed... but if it helps people who suffer from anxiety during withdrawl, go for it! My dog never felt he needed it!
 
I have a script for Celebrex that I can swear by.
I woke up and could barely move.
It felt like the flu but only joint pain.
Serious joint pain. So, that evening I took a Celebrex. The next day was the first day I felt any relief.
 
Regarding taking Aspirin for hypertension...

If you have high blood pressure you should only take aspirin if you have an increased risk of a heart attack or stroke and only when your blood pressure is well controlled.

Aspirin affects the way your blood clots and is therefore more likely to cause bleeding from the stomach and intestines. Aspirin may also be linked to an increased risk of strokes from bleeding directly into the brain.
 
I tried mega dosing with vit c last time I went though wd, however, i think i only did it two days with no results, maybe i should have tried longer

god restless legs is the WORST. it is the worst part of wd in my opinion, keeps me up all night long, the only thing that helps is taking a really hot bath though out the night with bath salts. when i get out i'm so relaxed sometimes i can fall asleep, mostly not.

ive also tried xanex, ambien, magnesium, multi vitms, bc powders, eating mustard (tried that last night) did not work, drinking pickle juice, putting a bar of ivory springs soap under my sheets. nothing has worked.
 
alicejane said:
I tried mega dosing with vit c last time I went though wd, however, i think i only did it two days with no results, maybe i should have tried longer

god restless legs is the WORST. it is the worst part of wd in my opinion, keeps me up all night long, the only thing that helps is taking a really hot bath though out the night with bath salts. when i get out i'm so relaxed sometimes i can fall asleep, mostly not.

ive also tried xanex, ambien, magnesium, multi vitms, bc powders, eating mustard (tried that last night) did not work, drinking pickle juice, putting a bar of ivory springs soap under my sheets. nothing has worked.
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you might try Quinine. Its a well known remedy for leg cramps that is said to help RLS symptoms as well.
 
Unlucky_stoner said:
Anti-diaharea. (Loperamide) takes away all WD symptoms for me
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The problem with loperamide is that it's an opioid itself and has it's own withdrawals, so at high enough dosages it will take you out of withdrawal, but you're really just switching opiates. The good thing about loperamide is that it's very long lasting, so it should be easy enough to taper from. However it's probably best used at lower dosages that don't have a chance of crossing the BBB, basically used just for GI issues.

I strongly believe clonodine is the best non-narcotic/non-benzo/gabaergic drug to help with withdrawal issues. A lot of the perceived pain from opiate withdrawal is from raised blood pressure, and clonodine lowers it. It won't have you feeling great, but it does allow you to get sleep, and if you take it often enough you can pretty much sleep through the worst withdrawal symptoms. Gabapentin and Lyrica are good too.
 
i swear by gabapentin, i have a script for the 600mg pills, to be taken 3 times a day but i actually take like 1200mg's every 4-6 hours and the withdrawals are so minimal that you don't notice them when taking the gabapentin. i plan to take them only for about 7-10 days then start lowering my dose.
 
mazda01 said:
i swear by gabapentin, i have a script for the 600mg pills, to be taken 3 times a day but i actually take like 1200mg's every 4-6 hours and the withdrawals are so minimal that you don't notice them when taking the gabapentin. i plan to take them only for about 7-10 days then start lowering my dose.
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Kind of off topic, but do you think high dosages like the ones you take would help with benzo withdrawals? My doctor prescribed me both clonodine and gabapentin for my taper, but I really only take the clonodine now. My gaba dose is 600mg 2x a day, but he wouldn't have a problem raising it. I just wonder about it's efficacy, it works great for opiate withdrawals, but at the low dosages I'm prescribed it doesn't seem anything to help with the benzos, in fact it doesn't seem to do anything at all. I'm considering to get him to try and up my dose exponentially though because I also want to try and take a break from the kratom to lower my tolerance.
 
What's helped me out most was baclofen. Some people say it doesn't work but it helped me. 10mg is enough for me. I tried 20mg right off the bat and got nauseas and almost threw up. And then benedryl at night. 3 tabs and some cannabis puts me out. It's weird cause I can't take 2mg of xannax and wake up innthenkiddl of the night due to my WD. I tried gabapentin yesterday and it worked but I just felt super weird like I had no depression or mood swings but I felt a little drunk.
 
I've read the thread and various suggestions and was curious about what symptom of withdrawal they help, dosages and nobody mentioned the depression/fatigue.

What I think and suggest:


Buprenorphine is by far the best approach. Doctor will provide a sublingual dose that matches whatever opiate you were using and at what dosage and you will have no withdrawal at that point. Buprenorphine sublingual can easily be slowly tapered over 1-2 months by reducing the dosage weekly by breaking sublingual tab. An 8 mg tab can be slowly cut down until switching to a 2 mg tab. A 2 mg tab can easily be broken down to 1.5 mg, then 1 mg, then .5 mg and then .25mg ( roughly). Then you can just quit and have modest withdrawal or doctor can have tronches of .5 mg compounded. Then these which are much larger than the sublingual tabs, can be easily broken to .25, then .2, then .15, then .1, then .05 and then quit with almost no significant symptoms.

The Buprenorphine can be dosed once a day with below 2 mg having barely any noticeable affect. It will also block a small dose of an opiate if you screw up. It has a stronger affinity for receptors. It can however be overwhelmed by a large dose. Its impossible to overdose on buprenorphine since it’s a mixed agonist/antagonist and simply won’t shut down respiration.


Withdrawl medications that help:

Ibuprofen, Aleve, Osteo BiFlex for joint Pain

Gabapentin 600 mg x 3 or Lyrica for pain and ??

Valium 5- 10 mg or Clonazepam 1-2 mg, and Clonidine .1-.2mg ( or patch) every 6 hours while monitoring blood pressure for anxiety and pain

Baclofen for muscle cramps

L-Phenylalanine, L-Tyrosine, Magnesium and iron supplement such as Hema-Plex ( boost ferritin ) to help synthesize Dopamine which is low

Mirapex ( Pramipexole ) .125 - .375 mg 1hr before symptoms start ( dopamine agonist) relieves Restless Leg Syndrome - works 100%

Memantine 10-20 mg and or DXM Dextromethorphan 15-60 mg as NMDA antagonist to reduce NMDA->glutamate excitation



Pot/Canabis for pain and lessen awareness of symptoms. Symptoms seem to heighten as it wears off although.

Vitamin C and other supplements why? How much? Generally good.

Do any of these interact in a bad way?

Low Dopamine causes depression and severe fatigue. Its quite bad on fourth day after 6 months on pain meds and fast taper and quitting. The withdrawal wasn't all that bad helped with Clonidine, Valium, Ibuprofen, DXM, memantine, Mirapex

Mirapex is a miracle for RLS. It should be taken in minimum working dosage and works always but should be tapered after a few weeks to see if RLS is gone as your natural dopamine production has normalized from good diet, exercise, Amino Acids L-Phenylalanine, L-Tyrosine, Magnesium and an Iron supplement such as Hema-Plex to boost ferritin. Ferritin is intracellular iron and is essential for dopamine synthesis in your brain.

But pain in joints and muscles is bad at night and the depression/fatigue is awful.

How long does pain in joints and muscles is bad at night and the depression/fatigue last?

What can be used for the depression/fatigue?

I've thought of Selegeline since it is both MAO-A and MAO-B so prevents Dopamine breakdown so helps maintain synaptic dopamine that's there although that may be inadequate. But at least it isn't lost to metabolism. It does interact with many other drugs so must be used with some caution. Works quickly. Doesn't take typical 3-4 weeks of some anti-depressants.

What about anti-depressants - although they take weeks to work... Anything quicker like the Selegeline above.


Coffee does nothing.

Thoughts on this or anything above?
 
pgrovetom said:
Memantine 10-20 mg and or DXM Dextromethorphan 15-60 mg as NMDA antagonist to reduce NMDA->glutamate excitation
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Really liking this suggestion ^, even for tolerance prevention before/during opioid use. Rest of your list seems solid as well. Welcome to BL and esp OD :)
 
Yes, I was searching PubMed and found where NMDA antagonists were being explored to reduce opioid tolerance buildup and Methadone was used for hyper-analgesia because it has NMDA antagonist properties along with opioid receptor activity in one drug. NMDA and its activation of glutamate is suspected as a component of hyper-analgesia and Methadone does seem to minimize its affect. Combining an NMDA antagonist such as DXM, memantine ( used for Alzheimers ) or Ketamine with an opioid can help with hyper-analgesia. NMDA receptor -> glutamate is also suspected as a component of withdrawal since glutamate is an excitory neurotransmitter. NMDA antagonists block this activity lessening the affects. Hard to tell if it helps since so much is going on but memantine and DXM in clinical doses have few side affects and interactions and are available and not controlled or risky.


I've not yet seen mirapex suggested for RLS. It works 100% and is a miracle and that should be advertised since none of the others work very well. Its a dopamine agonist and stops the loss of leg nerve->muscle-> return nerves feedback control loop that loses its fine control due to lack of dopamine. It must be taken a few hours before the symptoms begin which is often in the evening between 8-9PM. So taking .125mg - .375mg at 6 PM will completely prevent RLS. Studies suggest stopping after a month works and prevents any dopamine agonist problems if taken too long in high doses. .125 mg is a minuscule dosage that is a few percent of what is given for Parkinson's.


I'll post updates if any of the supplements help.
 
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