Best methods for dealing with upcoming Kratom withdrawal

[pfi23]

I get RLS bad from regular opiate withdrawal. I get if from kratom withdrawal but it is not set in deep. I can quell it with gabapentin. Sometimes even cannabis gets rid of it.

I can't stress how much gabapentin gets rid of kratom withdrawal. I imagine pregabalin is the same.

Keep in mind all, I talk about kratom as the plain leaf powder when I address it. When people talk about strong extract shots I think that is something different. I can't speak to it. To me kratom is the powdered leaf. The shots of extract could be anything. I mean, all we see is stuff misrepresented these days.

I only take the plain leaf powder as well. I am pretty sure that I had some gaba somewhere in a drawer that was among the many different attempts by my doctor to address my back without the opiates. Sounds like a goldmine for this if I find it! That's great advice.

Right now, it looks like the plan will be to use the gaba (if I find it) and the clonodine (i have a bunch of 0.1mg pills) to deal with the RLS. For other discomforts, it looks like Imodium and Ibuprofen, and maybe some edible cannabis to take the edge off.

I have an office visit with a new doctor who I will tell my entire history to in the next few weeks. If I am lucky, I can get some opiates, as all of this is going to do something fierce for my physical pain. I have no solution for that yet. Baby steps, I guess.

 

[pfi23]

Oh yea for sure. If I’m taking kratom a lot of days in a row & then stop, I’ll get pretty bad RLS. It’ll keep me up thrashing around in bed all night.

That sounds miserable.

 

[Hrecoveryfool]

Just went back on Kratom for a month (35 days to be exact)…extracts then powder the last 14 days of it. It’s wild how much even that short amount of time and not heavy uses (at most during that time 30gpd. Last two days after a fast taper have been, 3.5g 1 dose in AM, then used small small amounts of 7oh at night, 2ml with a dropper. Then today 2.5g 1 dose in AM, then again small small amounts of 7oh at night. My thought is, if finally just not using Kratom powder, then just dosing small amounts of 7oh, I feel like that’s better as my body gets rid of the 40 other alkaloids. Still with that amount, low energy, sneezing, runny nose, some anxiety, and just that blah feeling. I’m taking DLPA, Tumeric, Cats Claw, PEA, black seed oil (that mix was great in past), exercising as best as I can. But it’s just always crazy how just coming down from extracts to powder was an actual thing, even with that short while. Then lowering from 10gpd, then 8, then 5, then the 3.5, and now 2.5. Anyone ever try to use low low dose of 7oh at the end? I know the harshness of that extract by itself and know it operates on the mu receptor. I research like a mo fo. Any suggestions I’m missing? You guys and this forum has been huge

 

[Hrecoveryfool]

hope everyone is well. No Kratom 25 hours on the dot…I posted the previous one, above, for reference. My plan was to remove Kratom to get rid of all the 40 different alkaloids, while still barely hitting the mu receptor with small small 1ml doses of 7oh extract. I know the horror stories associated with that and it was wild coming off even regular does of that after a few days, so I’m totally aware what it’s doing and what it can do. But so far, no Kratom, and woke up this morning and decided to do something different, I went to the gym to say fuck it, let me just walk a bit…I do work out a ton already but this was a huge move to replace that experience instead of sulking around waiting in anxiety about the day, trying to feel something from my coffee in hopes to get me to do something later haha. So I did it, no Kratom, no 7oh. Last dose of 7oh(1ml) was 10 hours ago. It has an extremely fast half life and is pretty much out of the body around 6-10 hours. So a small dose 1ml, spaced out, barely does anything for that “feel good”, if at all, just puts 1-2 withdrawal symptoms at bay and maybe allow you to eat and make sure you drink fluids!!! In mornings I take, probiotic/prebiotic, tumeric, dlpa, l-vitamin c mega dose, cats claw, PEA, BSO, water, then coffee. Lots of that is continued through day, at night ashwaghanda. I’ve watched every YouTube, scoured reddits, blue lights, clinical articles (I have a doctorate so I’m use to that jargon), and spent time researching all supplements. And the most incredible thing and also frustrating, that I’ve learned, everyone is different and reacts different. Different to Kratom, different to supplements, different foods. Our biochemistries are all different. So if looking to quit, tapper, lower tolerance, journal your use, how you feel, and understand that if you lower a dose let’s say on Monday, those slight WD effects if you hold at that same amount will be the same for 2-3 days, maybe longer but not shorter usually. So as you taper, you will feel not great, but understand, that’s the process. Your not wrong, there just is no magic plan. Try not to dose until you feel 3-4 we symptoms (easier said then done). Mine is tired, yawning, runny nose, sneezing. Best wishes everyone and will update again probably tomorrow. Again, no Kratom for me 25 hours, and last small small dose (1ml) 7oh was about 10 hours ago.

 

[pfi23]

hope everyone is well. No Kratom 25 hours on the dot…I posted the previous one, above, for reference. My plan was to remove Kratom to get rid of all the 40 different alkaloids, while still barely hitting the mu receptor with small small 1ml doses of 7oh extract. I know the horror stories associated with that and it was wild coming off even regular does of that after a few days, so I’m totally aware what it’s doing and what it can do. But so far, no Kratom, and woke up this morning and decided to do something different, I went to the gym to say fuck it, let me just walk a bit…I do work out a ton already but this was a huge move to replace that experience instead of sulking around waiting in anxiety about the day, trying to feel something from my coffee in hopes to get me to do something later haha. So I did it, no Kratom, no 7oh. Last dose of 7oh(1ml) was 10 hours ago. It has an extremely fast half life and is pretty much out of the body around 6-10 hours. So a small dose 1ml, spaced out, barely does anything for that “feel good”, if at all, just puts 1-2 withdrawal symptoms at bay and maybe allow you to eat and make sure you drink fluids!!! In mornings I take, probiotic/prebiotic, tumeric, dlpa, l-vitamin c mega dose, cats claw, PEA, BSO, water, then coffee. Lots of that is continued through day, at night ashwaghanda. I’ve watched every YouTube, scoured reddits, blue lights, clinical articles (I have a doctorate so I’m use to that jargon), and spent time researching all supplements. And the most incredible thing and also frustrating, that I’ve learned, everyone is different and reacts different. Different to Kratom, different to supplements, different foods. Our biochemistries are all different. So if looking to quit, tapper, lower tolerance, journal your use, how you feel, and understand that if you lower a dose let’s say on Monday, those slight WD effects if you hold at that same amount will be the same for 2-3 days, maybe longer but not shorter usually. So as you taper, you will feel not great, but understand, that’s the process. Your not wrong, there just is no magic plan. Try not to dose until you feel 3-4 we symptoms (easier said then done). Mine is tired, yawning, runny nose, sneezing. Best wishes everyone and will update again probably tomorrow. Again, no Kratom for me 25 hours, and last small small dose (1ml) 7oh was about 10 hours ago.

Thank you for this detailed breakdown. Congrats on the progress you have made so far!

 

[Hrecoveryfool]

Thanks man, felt good writing on the board. Today still no Kratom and again small 1ml dose 7oh morning (6am) and 2ml dose 4pm. The bottle is 30ml, and “suggested” is 5ml per dose. We all know tho, we do half bottles or whole bottles haha. So what I’m using is basically nothing and again, don’t yield that “good feeling” just enough to take away some of the minor WD. The supplements the first few days of tapering felt like it wasn’t doing much but by the time jumped off today, I can see how they worked. Much more energy today and also rushes of just normal feeling which then feels amazingly good. Tomorrow will be another taper of lower 7oh and no Kratom. Those alkaloids in Kratom, not just the mu hitters, which there are a total of 40, certainly effect serotonin, dopamine, and other area in brain that control CNS. My thought was just to zero in on the mu receptor, allow all the other peripheral alkaloids to clear out or at least be not efficient enough left in my body to be doing anything. Then now I’m just dealing with small doses hitting that mu receptor. That took significant restraint to not do more but when I tapered, I was so fuckin done with it all and maintained a journal. Noticed a lot of things were behavior/routine. That’s the blessing with Kratom it does not have the grab that heroin did. Yes, I craved more, yes I was in enough WD that it haunted every thought of mine…but I kept saying I do more now, and that shit has a half life of 24 hours so that’s another day of just prolonging this. Where as the 7oh half life is just 2-6 hours…I have a fast metabolism and it’s such a little amount that it almost feels like placebo of just doing “something”. But everyone is different and our bodies handle things different. I do not have any other cross addictions (heroin recovery was 4 years ago) and besides this Kratom, haven’t touched any other substance, just the Kratom. So that may help too, not battling anything else. Sorry for long reply but super appreciate the feedback. Always here if need anything and will continue to report over the next several days. I know how it was scouring these forums to find just a glimpse of hope.

 

[pfi23]

Thanks man, felt good writing on the board. Today still no Kratom and again small 1ml dose 7oh morning (6am) and 2ml dose 4pm. The bottle is 30ml, and “suggested” is 5ml per dose. We all know tho, we do half bottles or whole bottles haha. So what I’m using is basically nothing and again, don’t yield that “good feeling” just enough to take away some of the minor WD. The supplements the first few days of tapering felt like it wasn’t doing much but by the time jumped off today, I can see how they worked. Much more energy today and also rushes of just normal feeling which then feels amazingly good. Tomorrow will be another taper of lower 7oh and no Kratom. Those alkaloids in Kratom, not just the mu hitters, which there are a total of 40, certainly effect serotonin, dopamine, and other area in brain that control CNS. My thought was just to zero in on the mu receptor, allow all the other peripheral alkaloids to clear out or at least be not efficient enough left in my body to be doing anything. Then now I’m just dealing with small doses hitting that mu receptor. That took significant restraint to not do more but when I tapered, I was so fuckin done with it all and maintained a journal. Noticed a lot of things were behavior/routine. That’s the blessing with Kratom it does not have the grab that heroin did. Yes, I craved more, yes I was in enough WD that it haunted every thought of mine…but I kept saying I do more now, and that shit has a half life of 24 hours so that’s another day of just prolonging this. Where as the 7oh half life is just 2-6 hours…I have a fast metabolism and it’s such a little amount that it almost feels like placebo of just doing “something”. But everyone is different and our bodies handle things different. I do not have any other cross addictions (heroin recovery was 4 years ago) and besides this Kratom, haven’t touched any other substance, just the Kratom. So that may help too, not battling anything else. Sorry for long reply but super appreciate the feedback. Always here if need anything and will continue to report over the next several days. I know how it was scouring these forums to find just a glimpse of hope.

All of your detail, plus some of the other answers in this growing thread, are all super helpful to me. As you likely read, I am planning on coming off the Kratom for the first time in years. I have already gone from the heaping tablespoon of powder I used to do every four hours, to an exact tablespoon. That's at least 1/3 down. That went ok. Still, I feel like hell without it, so I am just working myself up to picking the day I start to start cutting hard towards zero. All of this information is helping me sort out my approach. The only part that I worry about, other than the RLS from the WD, is the very real back pain that I will suddenly have nothing to help with. I may just have to live with that. I just have no idea now how crippling it might be. Hopefully not!

 

[Hrecoveryfool]

All of your detail, plus some of the other answers in this growing thread, are all super helpful to me. As you likely read, I am planning on coming off the Kratom for the first time in years. I have already gone from the heaping tablespoon of powder I used to do every four hours, to an exact tablespoon. That's at least 1/3 down. That went ok. Still, I feel like hell without it, so I am just working myself up to picking the day I start to start cutting hard towards zero. All of this information is helping me sort out my approach. The only part that I worry about, other than the RLS from the WD, is the very real back pain that I will suddenly have nothing to help with. I may just have to live with that. I just have no idea now how crippling it might be. Hopefully not!

If no rush, slow and steady is what the overall consensus is, feel free to write on here and I’ll be checking. Not alone, it’s do able. When people use to say that would piss me off cause I was not convinced nor did I think they truly understood how I felt, or I was different body make up or some shit. It’s a process not a rush

 

[pfi23]

If no rush, slow and steady is what the overall consensus is, feel free to write on here and I’ll be checking. Not alone, it’s do able. When people use to say that would piss me off cause I was not convinced nor did I think they truly understood how I felt, or I was different body make up or some shit. It’s a process not a rush

Well, slow would be ideal, but I am running out of time, as in a few months, I will be in China for a few weeks where it is illegal. I can't risk taking it in.

 

[Direwolf131]

I am totally willing to take Opioids. It's just a pain to find a doctor that will prescribe them in amounts that do much of anything for me. What you mentioned isn't OTC here in the states, so it isn't really any more accessible than the more potent stuff I was on before.

You're not gonna find that doctor anymore, next to impossible, my pain clinic shuttered last November in Mlps MN, I live 145 miles north of Mlps and still drove down there every two months for ten years. They shuttered and I found it literally impossible to replace them as none exist anymore, its now all Interventional (steroid injections and the like), you'll never find that doctor.

 

[pfi23]

You're not gonna find that doctor anymore, next to impossible, my pain clinic shuttered last November in Mlps MN, I live 145 miles north of Mlps and still drove down there every two months for ten years. They shuttered and I found it literally impossible to replace them as none exist anymore, its now all Interventional (steroid injections and the like), you'll never find that doctor.

I've had the injections. The steroids, the branch block...etc. Did exactly zero. Pain management is a freaking joke now.

 

[Hrecoveryfool]

Last dose Kratom was 50 hours ago, the above posts are how it got here. Able to sleep through the night with aswghanda, helps control CNS and gives a slight slight calming effect, enough that it smooths out the edges. I am still taking small/almost micro amounts of 7OH. Again the above posts describe that protocol. Basically taking ultra low doses of 7oh every 10-12 hours to keep WD at a minimal. Some people may need more than that, but CAUTION, 7oh is a nasty, very quick addicting, and tolerance building liquid. Had no idea a month ago. It was so bad that if I didn't at least have half the bottle, every 4 hours I was in full panic/aniexty mode and heavy WD. It is powerful and should be respected. At like 2 milliliter does, it's almost like a step above Advil, which is wear I want for the time being. Just enough to keep some of the WD symptoms at bay, but not nearly enough to give me a "good feeling". By tomorrow morning, all kratem alkaloids will be out of my system (I bet 90% is out of me already at 50 hours). Then I move into just focusing on the mu receptor instead of the list of effects that also come with kratem (CNS, Dopamine, Serotonin, and others). For those trying supplements, I have actually cut back on DLPA, cats claw, vitamin C mega dosing, PEA, and BSO. Not by choice but rather just felt I didn't need as much and just didn't take them as much yesterday. So no Kratem, less supplements, but kept the same 7oh schedule. Truth, I do feel better, I am eating more, I do have more energy and slight more desire to do things. I catch myself every once in awhile being like oh shit, I don't hate everything right now this is cool haha. I do get agitated at small things that a normally don't randomly, so I try my best to just understand this is the process and thank god I am upright, moving around, and just participating in life better. I also try to just cut myself some slack which is not easy, that much progress has been made and more still needs to be done. So when those moments come where it's like fuck this shit, I take inventory real quick of reality of where I am at. This to shall pass...usually gets me another 2-3 hours away from those thoughts.

 

[pfi23]

Last dose Kratom was 50 hours ago, the above posts are how it got here. Able to sleep through the night with aswghanda, helps control CNS and gives a slight slight calming effect, enough that it smooths out the edges. I am still taking small/almost micro amounts of 7OH. Again the above posts describe that protocol. Basically taking ultra low doses of 7oh every 10-12 hours to keep WD at a minimal. Some people may need more than that, but CAUTION, 7oh is a nasty, very quick addicting, and tolerance building liquid. Had no idea a month ago. It was so bad that if I didn't at least have half the bottle, every 4 hours I was in full panic/aniexty mode and heavy WD. It is powerful and should be respected. At like 2 milliliter does, it's almost like a step above Advil, which is wear I want for the time being. Just enough to keep some of the WD symptoms at bay, but not nearly enough to give me a "good feeling". By tomorrow morning, all kratem alkaloids will be out of my system (I bet 90% is out of me already at 50 hours). Then I move into just focusing on the mu receptor instead of the list of effects that also come with kratem (CNS, Dopamine, Serotonin, and others). For those trying supplements, I have actually cut back on DLPA, cats claw, vitamin C mega dosing, PEA, and BSO. Not by choice but rather just felt I didn't need as much and just didn't take them as much yesterday. So no Kratem, less supplements, but kept the same 7oh schedule. Truth, I do feel better, I am eating more, I do have more energy and slight more desire to do things. I catch myself every once in awhile being like oh shit, I don't hate everything right now this is cool haha. I do get agitated at small things that a normally don't randomly, so I try my best to just understand this is the process and thank god I am upright, moving around, and just participating in life better. I also try to just cut myself some slack which is not easy, that much progress has been made and more still needs to be done. So when those moments come where it's like fuck this shit, I take inventory real quick of reality of where I am at. This to shall pass...usually gets me another 2-3 hours away from those thoughts.

Thanks for all that. Great to hear of the journey. Sounds like you are getting to a better place.

My plan is to do without any 7oh as I get off the Kratom. I've never taken it, and don't want to start now. Will probably lean on the gaba and clonidine bottle remnants I still have... plus some cannabis gummies at night to help distract me and knock me out. Going to look into some of the supplements mentioned in this thread as well, but not sure about the plan there yet.

Lucky for me, I guess, is that I get zero buzz from the Kratom. Never have really. It helps make my back pain more manageable, and now keeps the RLS symptoms under control. So I won't be missing any sort of high. I just hope to get past the RLS as soon as possible, and deal with the other physical WD stuff as best as possible.

 

[Hrecoveryfool]

Leaving this here for hope, posted the above and after a slow tapper off Kratom, then small low doses of 7oh (2ml, like 2.5mg), spread out 12 hours a time at the end…then nothing for 24 hours, because of the fast half time of 7oh (92min!), I was well past anything being in my body. 7oh is a partial not full on opiate receptor. I took naltrexone at 5mg, low dose. I was going to use ultra low dose but know my body and what I was feeling like at the 24+ hour nothing mark. No precipitated WD, in fact it’s proven at even Low Dose, 2.5-5mg, naltrexone does the opposite of larger does.
“LDN refers to daily doses of Naltrexone that are within 1 to 5 mg - a tenth of the typical FDA-approved treatment dosage. Studies have shown that naltrexone exhibits paradoxical properties such as analgesia and anti-inflammatory, or antioxidant effects via upregulation of endogenous opioids at lower doses.”

Caution, if dependent, as most likely we are when dosing per day, multiple times a day…this is not for those times!!!!!! U flushed my system and also tapered off Kratom for 4 days, let all the alkaloids come out. The 7oh, although metabolized by Kratom, is one alkaloid…compared to the 40 known in Kratom powder. So I tackled 1 alkaloid, but very very carefully because of how addicting it is and also potential for tolerance increase. But the half life is so incredibly fast, hence we we dose that every 2-3 hours usually. Or feel like we need to I should say. Every 2 hours or less, it eliminates half of the dose. For instance, you do 7.5mg 7oh, 2 hours later, roughly 3.75mg is left, 4 hours 1.875, 6 hours .93….to give reference, in Kratom powder, there is only like .04, not anything but enough to give effect. So you can see that 7.5mg is a lot!!! And some of us, me including we’re doing 30mg per day!!! So that’s the disclaimer. Do not do neltrexone until you do the math with that half life! Best of luck to all, I’ll continue to update. Just wanted to leave some hope, cause sifting through all the forums, we don’t get the final it can be done. I have a vivitrol shot lined up Wednesday so we are doing it

 

[pfi23]

My doctor gave me Ropinirole (Requip) for the restless leg thing. Anyone here have any experience with that? Is it pretty reliable?

 

[pnillyg]

How long does kratom w/d last and what are the worst symptoms? Are there that comparable to full agonists or buprenorphine?

 

[Hrecoveryfool]

How long does kratom w/d last and what are the worst symptoms? Are there that comparable to full agonists or buprenorphine?

It always depends on total usage, how often, and the persons biochemistry, age, weight, if you exercise, etc.. Kratom has a long half life of 24 hours+/-. Example, 10g Kratom leaf powder, at 24 hours would be 5g, another 24 hours 2.5g and so on. So depending on the amount, would affect the duration. Typically, 24 hours, yawning/tired, just foggy feeling. 36 hours, anxiety, maybe body temp feels elevated, maybe some slight sweating, no appetite. 48 hours is typically the “peak”. Cravings are high, everything might annoy you because your restless but have sleep disruptions. 48-72 hours you feel slightly better. Maybe have small urge to eat. Each day gets better physically. Mentally, due to all the other 40 alkaloids, and them no longer hitting all the other receptors, motivation is low….now, the intensity of those, and the horror stories of vomiting, diarrhea, muscle spasms, sleepless nights, and time table of start to finish with the acute WD phase all gets effected by how long the use, how much u use, how frequent the use is, if you exercise, age, weight. But the above are a “typical” person.

That’s why it’s worth tapering, letting body adjust, get magnesium, black seed oil, tumeric, l-thenine, ashwghanda, DLPA, hydrate, get some snacks you like before hand. You won’t want to at all but get a walk in or get on treadmill.

I personally, got a bottle or two of straight 7oh and used a dropper (1ml) and stayed super disciplined to do 1-2mg of 7oh. Day 1 no Kratom, was 5g 7oh, then 4, 3, 2,1. It allowed to clear out all alkaloids. I was in “wd” with Kratom powder, felt off but could function. I craved more 7oh for sure but was super pumped not buying any more Kratom. On day 5 no Kratom, I stopped 7oh and took 1mg of naltrexone. Day after I took 2mg, then 5mg. It gave me crazy good energy( research ultra low dose naltrexone) and when to take it. Hope this helps

 

[Fire&Water]

Find a buncha antique lamp stands strip & re paint
best therapy for kratom w/drawal