• HEALTH & RECOVERY
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules Thread Directory 1 Thread Directory 2
    Mindfulness Links Addiction & Mind
    Sober Living Partner Program (SLiPP)
  • H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist

Best methods for dealing with upcoming Kratom withdrawal

pfi23

pfi23

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 15, 2024
Messages
13
I have a very bad back, but stopped taking any Opiates a few years ago. Kratom has been able to mostly deal with the pain, though I have never really gotten any sort of high from it. I was also not very sensitive to opiates in that way. My usual intake of Kratom is about a tablespoon every 4 to 5 hours. If that's high, it's probably due to my general tolerance for things like opiates.

Thing is, I think it's time to stop. I don't like needing this substance all the time, and while I fear my back pain, I would like to find other ways to deal with it. Along with that... I have an overseas trip to China with my family coming up in September, and Kratom is prohibited there.

I have noticed as a specific withdrawal I get from Kratom once I have passed too many hours without... I get a really uncomfortable restlessness in my legs. This is the first huge concern, as it is fairly unbearable. I assume that some of the other known withdrawal symptoms would follow this.

My plan is to set aside a number of days to force a complete detox, but I wonder if there are any known drugs or methods to helping ease the leg thing. I welcome any advice for the rest of withdrawals as well, but the leg thing is the only one that messes with my head a bit. Does cannabis offer any relief?

Also, is it a better plan to just start cutting my doses down over time... or just do it in one shot? Any advice would be very welcome. I had considered cutting each dose first to 2 teaspoons... then to a single... etc. I have never been through any of this, so I welcome any and all advice. Thank you!
 
Cutting down doses is just a giant cocktease. Cut out the kratom alltogether. Comfort meds like clonidine can really help with the restless legs. Plus it's pretty easy to get and is not addictive.
 
I don't think that's a generally high amount. How long on opioids? How long on kratom?

Honestly, kratom isn't dangerous like pharma opioids are, but you can get off of it if you really want. Unfortunately the best pain meds are still opioids. As for cannabis, it might or might not, and if you don't have a mental illness maybe it would help that. Dunno.

People have different experiences getting off of substances, some like to barrel into it, others to take their time.
 
AlphaMethylPhenyl said:
I don't think that's a generally high amount. How long on opioids? How long on kratom?

Honestly, kratom isn't dangerous like pharma opioids are, but you can get off of it if you really want. Unfortunately the best pain meds are still opioids. As for cannabis, it might or might not, and if you don't have a mental illness maybe it would help that. Dunno.

People have different experiences getting off of substances, some like to barrel into it, others to take their time.
Click to expand...
I had been on opioids for at least 5 years. My tolerance being insane, I was on hydromorphone, and could easily take 30+mg at a time. The doctor dropped me after I tested without the drug in my system, which was all sorts of BS... but I just decided to stop. No issue stopping at all. I have been on the Kratom for at least 5 years now. I just worry about my liver/kidneys, as I read that can be an issue... but I am mostly going to be in serious trouble come october when I am in China for 2 weeks. It is banned there, and they don't fuck around. I need to get off of it in any case. Getting opioids to replace it might be a challenge, as I tend to need a lot, and doctors are terrified of giving any out these days.

I have used Cannabis, and only occasionally like it. Was just curious about it's impact on the leg thing. It doesn't help my back much, unfortunately. I am looking for work right now, so I am trying not to take it unless I have to. As far as quitting the Kratom, I am leaning towards just doing it all in one shot.
 
I know the restless leg / limb problem very well. It has become my dominant and most unbearable opiate withdrawal symptom. I've been on kratom/subox for half a year after harder stuff and it's been very difficult to go fully abstinent.

What helps: gabapentin, mucuna puriens dopabean (otc supplement), cannabis, clonidine, mega doses of liposimal vitamin C, black seed oil, NAC n acetyl cistene, ibuprofen, safe muscle relaxants like tizanidine or Methocarbamol.

Also there are dopaminergic meds for RLS like ropinirole
 
I'm gonna be that guy. Just pretend it isn't real, cause it damn near isn't. I've been there, it's 90% in your head. How many grams do you take per day? It's pretty easy to Taper kratom down at like 1-5 grams at a time because you're never actually getting a calculated dose. Eat some other bitter powder when you jump off, like agmatine, which will help with withdrawal (and replace the habit sort of). Rls is the only physical symptom for me, and then there is anger, insomnia, lethargy, worse pain. Ibuprofen will help with that and the other symptoms should be easily mitigated with phenibut, gabapentin, or Lyrica. Hope this helps some. If its very bad see if you can get clonidine or guaifensen. If not there is Afrin, which is otc and has very similar method of action to clonidine. Kratom wd lasts like 3 days, and some herbs like valerian, scullcap, vervain, passionflower, blackseed, Chamomile, Hops, mulungu will help you sleep.

Two things that might help that work on opioid receptors, naltrexone (im sure you know of) which you can get for heavy drinking and will cancel out the kratoms effects, and akuamma, which is a seed from Africa used for everything we use opioids for, it's confirmed to contain agonists and antagonists.
Edit: also DLPA, turmeric, and myrrh, all of which also work on opioid systems and are otc
 
Loperamide (Brand name Imodium) is an OTC antidiarrheal medication that works on the opioid receptors in your stomach, so it’s really helped reduce diarrhea, stomach pain, and nausea during withdrawal. I’ve personally never withdrawn from kratom, but it worked for me with Vicodin and Oxy
 
daturetard said:
I'm gonna be that guy. Just pretend it isn't real, cause it damn near isn't. I've been there, it's 90% in your head. How many grams do you take per day? It's pretty easy to Taper kratom down at like 1-5 grams at a time because you're never actually getting a calculated dose. Eat some other bitter powder when you jump off, like agmatine, which will help with withdrawal (and replace the habit sort of). Rls is the only physical symptom for me, and then there is anger, insomnia, lethargy, worse pain. Ibuprofen will help with that and the other symptoms should be easily mitigated with phenibut, gabapentin, or Lyrica. Hope this helps some. If its very bad see if you can get clonidine or guaifensen. If not there is Afrin, which is otc and has very similar method of action to clonidine. Kratom wd lasts like 3 days, and some herbs like valerian, scullcap, vervain, passionflower, blackseed, Chamomile, Hops, mulungu will help you sleep.

Two things that might help that work on opioid receptors, naltrexone (im sure you know of) which you can get for heavy drinking and will cancel out the kratoms effects, and akuamma, which is a seed from Africa used for everything we use opioids for, it's confirmed to contain agonists and antagonists.
Edit: also DLPA, turmeric, and myrrh, all of which also work on opioid systems and are otc
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response.

I use one tablespoon per dose, which weighs out at right about 7g. I take this 5 to 6 times a day. Roughly every 4 to 5 hours. I used to take a much more overflowing tablespoon, but tapered down to this a few months back. It still helps with my back pain, and my RLS issues, so it seems to be the base dose that keeps me ok. I don't actually like the taste, so I don't think I'll need to worry about another bitter powder for the habit. That part doesn't have much of a hold on me. I welcome less of that part.

It's interesting to me that when I read literature on this, I rarely see ANY mention of RLS... but in places like this with actual users, it is very common. Seems like a big thing for more official literature to overlook. I don't tend to get angry or anything, but when I have run out and started going towards withdrawal, I have definitely noticed a lot of the other noted symptoms. It sucks, but I can deal with all the pain, sweat, discomfort, fever... knowing it will all go away. It's the leg thing that drives me crazy.

As far as the phenibut, gabapentin, clonodine, guaifensen... these are for the RSL in particular, or for the other symptoms? Do you have any specifics regarding which things these address, which are the best, and how much I'll need to take? I might have some clonidine and gabapentin around. No idea how to approach using them in this case.

Given all of the above, if you were going to quit tomorrow... what would your plan be regarding all of the above to get through the worst of it?
 
pfi23 said:
I have a very bad back, but stopped taking any Opiates a few years ago. Kratom has been able to mostly deal with the pain, though I have never really gotten any sort of high from it. I was also not very sensitive to opiates in that way. My usual intake of Kratom is about a tablespoon every 4 to 5 hours. If that's high, it's probably due to my general tolerance for things like opiates.

Thing is, I think it's time to stop. I don't like needing this substance all the time, and while I fear my back pain, I would like to find other ways to deal with it. Along with that... I have an overseas trip to China with my family coming up in September, and Kratom is prohibited there.

I have noticed as a specific withdrawal I get from Kratom once I have passed too many hours without... I get a really uncomfortable restlessness in my legs. This is the first huge concern, as it is fairly unbearable. I assume that some of the other known withdrawal symptoms would follow this.

My plan is to set aside a number of days to force a complete detox, but I wonder if there are any known drugs or methods to helping ease the leg thing. I welcome any advice for the rest of withdrawals as well, but the leg thing is the only one that messes with my head a bit. Does cannabis offer any relief?

Also, is it a better plan to just start cutting my doses down over time... or just do it in one shot? Any advice would be very welcome. I had considered cutting each dose first to 2 teaspoons... then to a single... etc. I have never been through any of this, so I welcome any and all advice. Thank you!
Click to expand...

Are you still unwilling to take any opioids? 'Cause OTC co-codamol (and CWE) would help.
 
pfi23 said:
Thanks for the response.

I use one tablespoon per dose, which weighs out at right about 7g. I take this 5 to 6 times a day. Roughly every 4 to 5 hours. I used to take a much more overflowing tablespoon, but tapered down to this a few months back. It still helps with my back pain, and my RLS issues, so it seems to be the base dose that keeps me ok. I don't actually like the taste, so I don't think I'll need to worry about another bitter powder for the habit. That part doesn't have much of a hold on me. I welcome less of that part.

It's interesting to me that when I read literature on this, I rarely see ANY mention of RLS... but in places like this with actual users, it is very common. Seems like a big thing for more official literature to overlook. I don't tend to get angry or anything, but when I have run out and started going towards withdrawal, I have definitely noticed a lot of the other noted symptoms. It sucks, but I can deal with all the pain, sweat, discomfort, fever... knowing it will all go away. It's the leg thing that drives me crazy.

As far as the phenibut, gabapentin, clonodine, guaifensen... these are for the RSL in particular, or for the other symptoms? Do you have any specifics regarding which things these address, which are the best, and how much I'll need to take? I might have some clonidine and gabapentin around. No idea how to approach using them in this case.

Given all of the above, if you were going to quit tomorrow... what would your plan be regarding all of the above to get through the worst of it?
Click to expand...
Clonidine and related (gaunfacine, not gauifensen, otc cold med) will help with everything. Sleep, rls, mood, pain, and everything else withdrawal related. Adrenergic receptors used to be classified as opioid receptors. Gabapentinoids are specifically for rls and will help with anxiety as well as sleep. I'd use the gabapentin when you get rls, I've taken 4.5 g in one day, so it's difficult to overdose on gabapentin. And the clonidine when you need sleep or are feeling the worst of it
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
Are you still unwilling to take any opioids? 'Cause OTC co-codamol (and CWE) would help.
Click to expand...
I am totally willing to take Opioids. It's just a pain to find a doctor that will prescribe them in amounts that do much of anything for me. What you mentioned isn't OTC here in the states, so it isn't really any more accessible than the more potent stuff I was on before.
 
pfi23 said:
I am totally willing to take Opioids. It's just a pain to find a doctor that will prescribe them in amounts that do much of anything for me. What you mentioned isn't OTC here in the states, so it isn't really any more accessible than the more potent stuff I was on before.
Click to expand...

You can't get anything with codeine OTC in the US at all? Like Codeine/Acetaminophen, Codeine/Ibuprofen, Codeine/Aspirin etc?
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
Damn, sorry to hear that, that sucks.
Can you not complain of something like severe migraines or similar and get prescribed something like Vicodin or Percocet? Or even just Codeine,
Click to expand...
US doctors are terrified of prescribing most opioids nowadays, even in ppl without any history of addiction whatsoever. With Migraines, the most they’ll do for you is give a vic or two and then prescribe you a triptan (which in my experience don’t even work :D). The US healthcare system is truly a joy to behold
 
BrdWithHats said:
US doctors are terrified of prescribing most opioids nowadays, even in ppl without any history of addiction whatsoever. With Migraines, the most they’ll do for you is give a vic or two and then prescribe you a triptan (which in my experience don’t even work :D). The US healthcare system is truly a joy to behold
Click to expand...

And you'll probably have to pay hundred of dollars to have a doctor refuse to prescribe you pain meds.
 
daturetard said:
I'm gonna be that guy. Just pretend it isn't real, cause it damn near isn't. I've been there, it's 90% in your head.
Click to expand...
I noticed with kratom withdrawal that it has a ceiling effect. Only gets so bad. And goes away fairly quickly. But because it is not as bad as other opiates does not make it easy. Cigarette (tobacco) withdrawal does not cause bad physical effects but mentally it is one of the hardest things to quit.

I have been on and off since 2005. Since 2012 daily. Down to 22 gr a day. Just had my physical. I am 60 years old. Blood work was perfect. Liver/kidney and even cholesterol were in a great range. I don't understand that as I can eat slop. It could be the fiber from the kratom being a benefit.

When I am ready to quit I will keep tapering. If I just put a gram less a week (even by eye) it could be painless. Gabapentin and cannabis help with sleep and comfort. But when that time comes I will go like this. A day or two off kratom. A gabapentin day, then two more days without. Then another gabapentin day. Slowly let the body heal.
 
JackARoe said:
I noticed with kratom withdrawal that it has a ceiling effect. Only gets so bad. And goes away fairly quickly. But because it is not as bad as other opiates does not make it easy. Cigarette (tobacco) withdrawal does not cause bad physical effects but mentally it is one of the hardest things to quit.

I have been on and off since 2005. Since 2012 daily. Down to 22 gr a day. Just had my physical. I am 60 years old. Blood work was perfect. Liver/kidney and even cholesterol were in a great range. I don't understand that as I can eat slop. It could be the fiber from the kratom being a benefit.

When I am ready to quit I will keep tapering. If I just put a gram less a week (even by eye) it could be painless. Gabapentin and cannabis help with sleep and comfort. But when that time comes I will go like this. A day or two off kratom. A gabapentin day, then two more days without. Then another gabapentin day. Slowly let the body heal.
Click to expand...
Do you get the RLS from Kratom withdrawal? If so, is that included in your "goes away fairly quickly" comment? I don't know why, but out of all the unpleasant withdrawal elements... that is the main thing that really gets to me.
 
pfi23 said:
Do you get the RLS from Kratom withdrawal? If so, is that included in your "goes away fairly quickly" comment?
Click to expand...
I get RLS bad from regular opiate withdrawal. I get if from kratom withdrawal but it is not set in deep. I can quell it with gabapentin. Sometimes even cannabis gets rid of it.

I can't stress how much gabapentin gets rid of kratom withdrawal. I imagine pregabalin is the same.

Keep in mind all, I talk about kratom as the plain leaf powder when I address it. When people talk about strong extract shots I think that is something different. I can't speak to it. To me kratom is the powdered leaf. The shots of extract could be anything. I mean, all we see is stuff misrepresented these days.
 
pfi23 said:
Do you get the RLS from Kratom withdrawal? If so, is that included in your "goes away fairly quickly" comment? I don't know why, but out of all the unpleasant withdrawal elements... that is the main thing that really gets to me.
Click to expand...
Oh yea for sure. If I’m taking kratom a lot of days in a row & then stop, I’ll get pretty bad RLS. It’ll keep me up thrashing around in bed all night.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top