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Best experience with a 4-subbed tryptamine

PsychaStevic

PsychaStevic

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Aug 25, 2016
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I've done extensive research on Lysergamides, and recently have found that either I have nothing more to learn from them, or, I just need a healthy break from all the paper eating. With that being said, I have very limited tryptamine experience and was wondering, what are your favorite 4 subbed tryptamines and why? Curious to hear firsthand experience :)
 
If you think you have nothing to discover in the lysergamids, do not expect to find the Holy Grail in the tryptamines or in any other type of psychedelic. Although they are different families (closely related in many ways) it does not want to say that you can find that "magic" again. They are psychedelic alike, they work in a similar way, in fact, under my experience, the most notable difference is the dose and duration. You have to know that lysergamides already contain the form of tryptamine within their molecular skeleton.
If this type of chemicals no longer provide you with new stimuli or interesting experiences, simply get away from any 5ht2a agonist for a long time and eventually you will recover the "psychedelic magic". I always say the same thing: If you don't let your tolerance grow (consumption) in every experience there is always something new to learn.
I know this was not your question, but I write all this in favor of harm reduction.

To give an example: if due to my tolerance to Ethylphenidate (a Piperidine) I no longer receive euphoria, I probably will not find those effects in Hex-En (Catinone) or in any other stimulating compound. Why? Because all this compounds are NDRI.
For issues of tolerance and "loss of magic" not only have to look at the chemical family, the pharmacological profile of the substance is very important.
If you have bored with spaghetti, do not opt ​​for macaroni, look for something else.

Well, having said that, for me, the most playful triptamine par excellence is 4-ho-Met, and the most dark is DMT. There is no reason that can be objective, simply this has been my personal experience.


DocLad
 
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Everything DocLad said is valid.

I will say that receptor polymorphism means your mileage may vary. For me, lysergamides have not produced deep or insightful states. 4-HO-DMT (mushrooms) and 4-AcO-DMT have all taken me much further than LSD had ever been able to, so they may be worth looking into.

I've heard good things about 4-AcO-DPT and 4-HO-MPT, but they seem far, far less reliable.

Outside of 4-sub-Ts, ayahuasca and cacti have been comparably useful allies in their own ways.

Finally, you may have learned all that you need to for now. As the saying goes, "when you've gotten the message, hang up the phone."
 
Doclad said:
If you think you have nothing to discover in the lysergamids, do not expect to find the Holy Grail in the tryptamines or in any other type of psychedelic. Although they are different families (closely related in many ways) it does not want to say that you can find that "magic" again.
DocLad
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Maybe I should rephrase that a tad better, it's not necessarily that the 'magic' isnt there anymore, as I take doses ranging from 200-1000mics, and I can always push it past 500 to get that magic experience, but I guess it's that I'm becoming bored with the lysergamide experience. Even on the higher doses, it's an extremely deja vu-esque feeling of familiar territory. I was, more or less, looking to see if any of these have a unique experience to it. I understand psychedelics are psychedelics and they all act in the same manner, but the experience you'd get with Aya vs something like ETH LAD or something of the sorts is extremely different.
 
Pfafffed said:
Everything DocLad said is valid.

I will say that receptor polymorphism means your mileage may vary. For me, lysergamides have not produced deep or insightful states. 4-HO-DMT (mushrooms) and 4-AcO-DMT have all taken me much further than LSD had ever been able to, so they may be worth looking into.

I've heard good things about 4-AcO-DPT and 4-HO-MPT, but they seem far, far less reliable.

Outside of 4-sub-Ts, ayahuasca and cacti have been comparably useful allies in their own ways.

Finally, you may have learned all that you need to for now. As the saying goes, "when you've gotten the message, hang up the phone."
Click to expand...
I have had Ayahuasca before, truly mind blowing experience. What did you mean by DPT and MPT being far less reliable?
 
I think the best place to start is whole Mushrooms, then go into the rest of the 4-substituted tryptamines. The 4-substituted mipt, dmts are generally referred to as the deepest.

Unless you are interested in pharmacology, or the structure activity relationships, I have not found trying all the different analogs, just for the sake of it, to be all that rewarding. Now this is me personally.

I have stuck to just a couple from each category. LSD, 2CE, and Psilocybin, DMT. They agree with me very well and the analogs are either indistinguishable, have crap side effects, or are not good enough to be worth the short history of human use. However, I do feel that 4-substituted tryptamines are probably safe physiologically at useful doses, and will not lead to any lasting long term effects.
 
Tryptamines are really awesome drugs, they feel a lot more adult than anything else. Feels like tryptamines penetrate you down to your soul a lot of times and may be used as powerful spiritual tools.

My favorites are:

Mushrooms - my first psychedelic teacher, awesome all around. Hard to dose right and have some stomach queasiness but offer a deep wholesome experience with pronounced OEVs, CEVs and very altered mental processes. Very good, very spiritual. About 8-10 hours long.

4-AcO-DMT - very similar to mushrooms after the peak starts subsiding, IME this one is more phlegmatic than mushrooms, also might make you sleepy. I like it's "electricity" and deep nature, very easy to dose, access to spiritual realms, more CEVs than OEVs. About 6-8 hours long.

4-AcO-DET - one of my all-time favorite. Highly transcendent, deeply reaching, surprisingly euphoric in anti-hedonistic way. Good medicine. Harder than usual to dose right, outcome may be surprising. Awesome mental state, possible deep samadhi moments, great for meditating and doing spiritual work. About 3-6 hours long. 4-HO-DET is also pretty good but I prefer the AcO version of this one.

4-HO-MiPT - another gem of a chem. Great for euphoria, hikes, friends hang out, movies, dinner, anything! Very versatile and energetic. Careful with dose as it gets pretty strong and crazy if you push it - 35mg might "destroy" a virgin mind but an introductory 10-12mg will be perfect. Careful combining this one with ANY stimulant - strong potentiation of stimulation, feels adrenergic. Lasts from 6 to 10 hours. 4-AcO-MiPT is also very good, being more electric in its nature and HO being earthier and darker.

4-HO-EPT - a king of analysis! I feel so smart and so contempt on it. Great for mixing with other trypts or phens too. Love reading and writing on this one - clarity, insight, sharp mental skills, clear mind. Never took a large dose of it as I think this one shines more in smaller doses. Perfect psychedelic to take when you are lonely - it will make you very contempt and warm being by yourself, something very reassuring comes with it. By itself lasts about 4-5 hours.

4-HO-MET - colorful, may become pretty deep. Very beautiful OEVs and CEVs but quite light on mental processes in that it doesnt overthrow everything but still melts your ego. I like it but by itself I rarely take it. Mixes sublimely with 4-AcO-DMT, I also like to take it with MDA or 6-APDB. By itself lasts about 5-6 hours.

4-AcO-MET - my favorite mixer of them all! Extremely versatile chem, by itself feels very electric, weirdly stimulating, can get pretty visual and somewhat dissociating. Mixes with everything nicely, perfect topper! Lats longer than its HO brother, about 8 hours or so.

4-HO-MPT - cool and short, melts your ego and gives you OEVs and CEVs. Perfect if you want to trip but are limited in time (eg need to go to sleep due to work next day). Last only 3-4 hours but during the period you will have a classic tryptamine feel, quite strong with higher dosages, leaves you refreshed at the end. Nice stuff IMO.

I also very much appreciate 4-MeO-MiPT but not as a psychedelic and rather as a feel-good chem that will make your day off even smoother and pleasurable, it also has nice benefits on erotic side for me.

Neither 4-HO or 4-AcO-DPT impressed me at all, but gave me a lot of body load.

DMT is amazing but not a 4-subbed tryptamine, and so is DPT, MPT and MET. MET freebase is fun, MPT is an alright mellow. DPT is... complicated stuff but you might really like it.
 
For me by the king of tryptamines is DPT and the best 4 subbed tryptamine is 4-AcO-DPT...it and 4-ho-dpt actually produced zero body load for me and the head space reached far deeper than any lysergamide ever has but that's me.
I cannot recommend for and 4 subbed DPT enough based on my personal experience with them.
 
Personal idiosyncrasy, honestly.
Each one of us has his own "psychedelic kings", that's good.

I love the psychedelic democracy. 8)


DocLad
 
Yeah, that is a good summary. One thing about it, why put the duration of 4AcO-DMT at 6-8 hours? I have never tried it, but my wife has, and I have some and will do so soon. I am highly experienced with Mushrooms though and I would say the duration is closer to 4-6 hours.

Is 4-AcO-DMT noticeably longer acting than its hydroxylated/phosphorylated counterpart?
 
For me all 4-ho / 4-aco substances last the same.

By the way, has anyone taken IMAO with these? They are always used with DMT or fungi, I do not see what problem there would be with the other analogues, but the literature around these mixtures is practically nil and I do not know why.


DocLad
 
I understand what you mean. With LSD and lysergamides it seems as though the message, although always changing is usually pretty clear. This reminds me of Alan Watts advice being once you receive the message hang up the phone. Not to say it isn't incredible to revisit these familiar realms, or that the message is always the same.

With tryptamines and DMT the message isn't always as clear, so you may not fully understand what it is you are hanging up from. Lysergamides are more fun whereas Tryptamines to me appear to have more depth and mystery to them. Not to say acid isn't very deep or that trypytamines are not fun, because they are...it's just fair to say in my experience I can walk away from mushrooms feeling incredibly enlightened but maybe not fully understanding why and still having more questions left unanswered. Tryptamines feel more alien and mystical to me I suppose. Whereas with lysergamides it is easier to process the trip and understand what was good or bad about it, and what I took away from it. The experience feels more concrete.

It doesn't get much better than 4-aco-DMT :) very similar to mushrooms. Anytime my fiance and I dose up we usually spend the ready of the night cuddling under blankets and kissing listening to something chill but beautiful like Mazzy Starr. It is also possible to take a lowish dose like say 5 mgs and go out in public with a goofy grin plastered on my face and light but noticeable visuals with feelings of overwhelmingly perfect content. Pure bliss my friend.

DPT is more complex and that is definitely one I would dose in the safety of my own home with one other person that I feel very close to. This and DMT are the only drugs where I swear I truly did make contact with spiritual entities that I could communicate with telepathically. They just knew. They knew me.
 
Doclad said:
By the way, has anyone taken IMAO with these? They are always used with DMT or fungi, I do not see what problem there would be with the other
analogues, but the literature around these mixtures is practically nil and I do not know why.
Click to expand...

Only combined them with LMAO, excellent combo, highly recommended.
 
I've only tried 4-aco-dmt and 4-ho-met, and neither that expensively. But the biggest plus for me with these substances is the lack of the couch-locking stomach and bodily discomfort I get from mushrooms.

This past weekend I took ~15mg of 4-ho-met while beach camping. I climbed this huge rock on the ocean and from atop it I could see very far across the ocean, it was amazing just watching the waves create patterns as well as the patterns in when the waves come. Some surfer friends were there explaining the patterns and how to find where good waves might come, which was very interesting but I was completely lost in a trance of the white frothing waves. The sea foam from the waves looked like smoke as it billowed and dispersed, quite mystifying.
 
I'm not sure if I agree with doclad.. there are clearly differences between psychedelics which apparently have to do with things like 5-HT1a efficacy, so it wouln't be strange if some lysergamides or tryptamines have more potential for producing spiritual and meaningful experiences compared to other shallower ones.

The list of 4-sub trypts doesn't end with DMT and MET analogues. There are plenty less common ones so I wouldn't be so quick to say there are few differences between how deep or worthwhile they are. I'm interested in compounds like 4-xO-DPT, 4-xO-MPT and others but am not so focused any more on trying new ones and also have my money reserved for different things now..

As for lysergamides: something like AL-LAD is definitely more fun but quite a bit less hardcore than LSD and ETH-LAD, similarly 4-HO-DIPT seemed to have a softer edge to it and you can afford to be a little looser with the dosage.

So far I think 4-xO-MiPT is pretty damn good, I love 4-HO-MET and I think the DMTs and DPTs and in teneral the xMTs (except for aMT of course) are pretty profound.

I agree though that there is a generic quality shared by psychedelics, I guess from the 5-HT2a activity.. however especially different classes may cause more different downstream effects (functional selectivity).

@ couchlock from mushrooms: it's pretty interesting that there is this difference, I don't get that couchlock from synthetic psilocin, nor any of the other 4-HO trypts in quite that same way.
 
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Forgot all about 4-HO-MET. To me it seemed like the AL-LAD of tryptamines. Laid back, euphoric, with interesting digitalized visuals. Only got to try this one time but intend on ordering more asap.

"It doesn't get much better than 4-ACE-deemz."

- Laika
 
Solipsis said:
@ couchlock from mushrooms: it's pretty interesting that there is this difference, I don't get that couchlock from synthetic psilocin, nor any of the other 4-HO trypts in quite that same way.
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When I make tea from mushrooms, the couch lock is severely reduced. And this is working with psilocybe cyanescens I've picked myself in the wild, which are known for greater greater lock. I think a lot of the couchlock is your stomach having to deal with breaking down the mushroom fibers which causes nausea and stomach cramping/pains, thus causing you to become lethargic overall. Kind of like how I become lethargic after eating a big meal or anytime my stomach is upset by anything I've eaten.

For me eating mushrooms straight up is a thing of the past; so much nicer to grind them up, put them in an herbal teabag, reseal and enjoy. Tastes better feels better. If you make the tea right I don't think you lose any potency either.

The first time I made tea the trip totally snuck up on me. We made it from year old shrooms that had been stored questionably, and without the initial stomach discomfort I had no idea they were gonna work until visuals started setting in.
 
Hilopsilo said:
When I make tea from mushrooms, the couch lock is severely reduced. And this is working with psilocybe cyanescens I've picked myself in the wild, which are known for greater greater lock. I think a lot of the couchlock is your stomach having to deal with breaking down the mushroom fibers which causes nausea and stomach cramping/pains, thus causing you to become lethargic overall. Kind of like how I become lethargic after eating a big meal or anytime my stomach is upset by anything I've eaten.

For me eating mushrooms straight up is a thing of the past; so much nicer to grind them up, put them in an herbal teabag, reseal and enjoy. Tastes better feels better. If you make the tea right I don't think you lose any potency either.

The first time I made tea the trip totally snuck up on me. We made it from year old shrooms that had been stored questionably, and without the initial stomach discomfort I had no idea they were gonna work until visuals started setting in.
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Also I think it has something to do with the conversion of Psilocybin to Psilocin, which party happens when you make the tea and / or make a liquor, compare to eating them plain dry, so it speeds up the process, eliminate some nausea and make the trip shorter and more visual. IIRC there is a thread on Reddit about theoretical conversion of 4-AcO-DMT to 4-HO-DMT as well.
 
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