Best experience with a 4-subbed tryptamine

[TheAppleCore]

I've done extensive research on Lysergamides, and recently have found that either I have nothing more to learn from them, or, I just need a healthy break from all the paper eating. With that being said, I have very limited tryptamine experience and was wondering, what are your favorite 4 subbed tryptamines and why? Curious to hear firsthand experience

Oh man, it's so hard to pick a favorite! Lately I've been enjoying 4-HO-MPT more than anything else, and 4-HO-MiPT is wonderful in its own way, but for someone looking for a break from the lysergamides, I would recommend 4-HO-MET. The reason being, in my experience, it's more distinct from LSD than -MPT and -MiPT, so it will be a refreshing change of pace, but it's equally wonderful. The visuals are absolutely unparalleled, in my opinion: the best way I can describe them is to say that 4-HO-MET combines the vivid brilliance of DMT with more of a fluid, artistic flair. And it even has fascinating, bizarre auditory hallucinations for me.

4-HO-MET has a reputation for being cognitively "light", and some people even say that it's little more than a lightshow, but I find it to provide a very rich headspace nonetheless, and I have had some really memorable insights on it.


P.S., a couple honorable mentions: 4-AcO-DMT is also very powerful, and many people love this drug, but I personally cannot tolerate it, because it's simply too anxiogenic for me. 4-AcO-DET is very unique and deep in its own way, but it's not for everyone, as it has a bit of a delirious, dark edge to it -- which isn't necessarily a bad thing!

 

[Doclad]

Solipsis, maybe my affirmation has been a bit daring. I would like to deepen my comment.

It is true that within the family of Tryptamines there is a wide range of substances that can be separated from each other according to the affinity they have for different receptors. Some have affinity for 5ht1a and others do not, there are many examples. What I wanted to say is that if a person has nothing to learn from the Lisergamides, the pure Triptamines are not so different as to find something completely new.

If we compare the Triptamines with substances such as K or MXE (Arylcyclohexylamines), we can talk about the Tryptamines as a complete family, since the difference between them is strong and pushes the substances of the two families to see themselves under the same "light".
Everything depends on the perspective in which we observe it.
What do you think about my point of view?

Between Triptaminas and Lisergamidas I find it more difficult to find these differences, although evidently if we go deeper we will find something.
Anyway, adjectives like: deep, spiritual, fun ... for me, they are associated more with the mental state of the person than with the substance.
I have had very fun trips with 4-Ho-Met, and there are many people who would agree with me, however, my wife seems to find the reason for her own existence when she is under her effects.
Mushrooms and DMT (Ayahuasca), I did not find them fun at all, and again, many people are happy with mushrooms. My own experience and observation tells me that personal idiosyncrasy plays a very important role.
And what about of the power of suggestion? People read in the forum that DMT is profound, that 4-Ho-Met is fun ... to what extent do these generalized opinions play an important role in people's subsequent travel? It's just an idea.

On the contrary, the dose and the duration of the effects are much more objective.

I suppose this is part of our work in the forum, understand the character of each substance, collect the data and discover what patterns exist behind our experiments.
In any case, there will always be something that will be unique to each individual regardless of the substance that we study.
Each one of us has its own psyche that is unique in the universe.

Solipsis, thanks for responding to my previous post.


DocLad


Can someone tell me how I can send someone else's comment? When I click on "QUOTE" in a comment and make a post, the white box does not appear. Thank you

 

[mr peabody]

^^
On a PC, press & hold down your mouse button, drag the cursor over the text you want to highlight, press CTRL/C to copy it, then press CTRL/V to paste it into the response field.

 

[Doclad]

hahaha I did not mean that mr peabody.

When I want to respond to another user's comment I would like to quote it to be written with the white screen background, but it just does not happen that way.


DocLad

 

[Hilopsilo]

Solipsis, maybe my affirmation has been a bit daring. I would like to deepen my comment.<br>
<br>
It is true that within the family of Tryptamines there is a wide range of substances that can be separated from each other according to the affinity they have for different receptors. Some have affinity for 5ht1a and others do not, there are many examples. What I wanted to say is that if a person has nothing to learn from the Lisergamides, the pure Triptamines are not so different as to find something completely new.<br>
<br>
If we compare the Triptamines with substances such as K or MXE (Arylcyclohexylamines), we can talk about the Tryptamines as a complete family, since the difference between them is strong and pushes the substances of the two families to see themselves under the same "light".<br>
Everything depends on the perspective in which we observe it.<br>
What do you think about my point of view?<br>
<br>
Between Triptaminas and Lisergamidas I find it more difficult to find these differences, although evidently if we go deeper we will find something.<br>
Anyway, adjectives like: deep, spiritual, fun ... for me, they are associated more with the mental state of the person than with the substance.<br>
I have had very fun trips with 4-Ho-Met, and there are many people who would agree with me, however, my wife seems to find the reason for her own existence when she is under her effects.<br>
Mushrooms and DMT (Ayahuasca), I did not find them fun at all, and again, many people are happy with mushrooms. My own experience and observation tells me that personal idiosyncrasy plays a very important role.<br>
And what about of the power of suggestion? People read in the forum that DMT is profound, that 4-Ho-Met is fun ... to what extent do these generalized opinions play an important role in people's subsequent travel? It's just an idea.<br>
<br>
On the contrary, the dose and the duration of the effects are much more objective.<br>
<br>
I suppose this is part of our work in the forum, understand the character of each substance, collect the data and discover what patterns exist behind our experiments.<br>
In any case, there will always be something that will be unique to each individual regardless of the substance that we study.<br>
Each one of us has its own psyche that is unique in the universe.<br>
<br>
Solipsis, thanks for responding to my previous post.<br>
<br>
<br>
DocLad<br>
<br>
<br>
Can someone tell me how I can send someone else's comment? When I click on "QUOTE" in a comment and make a post, the white box does not appear. Thank you

I certainly agree that going down the subjective-adjective rabbit hole to describe the mental effects of a psychedelic is neither here nor there. And I think it comes down to really how different they actually are, and whether its worth pursuing a specific one for an expected difference in experience.

For example, through all my research I really don't have much interest in trying any of the other lysergamides since I have access to good LSD and I haven't really read anything that suggests that any specific LSD analog has anything to offer that LSD might not. It seems that unless you're incredibly experienced with all of them, it would be rather difficult to tell a meaningful difference between them (there was that thread on here where someone guessed which was which, but this was through lots of experience and some telling signs such as known/expected durations and strength of the effects at given doses). I haven't read anyone say "Oh you like LSD? You've GOT to try MAD-LAD". The LSD analogs available seem most useful to me in that they give a lot of people access to the LSD experience who otherwise might not have access to the highly illegal and in some places very rare LSD.

That said, I think it is worthwhile, for tryptamines at least, to try to quantify the "headfuck" rather than define the endless qualities of it. For me, 4-subs all screw with my head in the same manner, whatever that may be, a thousands words couldn't describe it, and it probably varies person to person. So I think it might be more useful to take a more simplistic approach:

Within 4-subs, I think it would be reasonable to sort them all by ratios of headfuck:visuals (maybe also bodyload?) while somehow controlling for their varying potency per mg. i.e. dose for dose, lets say 4-aco-dmt produces half the quantitative visuals and twice the quantitive "mindfuck" of 4-ho-met, a statistic like thats probably easier to nail down than definitively describing the qualitative difference in visuals and ways in which they are thought provoking, thats something you can define for yourself personally through experience.

In this way, 4-ho-met is interesting and useful to me in that it generally produces a more visual and less headspacey experience relative to other 4-subs (15mg of 4-ho-met still has me feeling pretty heady). To me, this difference is useful beyond the musings of psychedelic wine-tasters.

 

[pilopilot]

Are we aloud to source on here.. [no, sourcing is not allowed here at Bluelight, please read the user agreement - CFC]

 

[bindingaffinity]

Volsam, TheAppleCore, Doclad, Hilopsilo, and others with lots of different 4-sub experiences, I'm curious how you'd compare the 4-AcO's to the 4-HO's in general. Are they totally different experiences? Or qualitatively similar to each other with variances in pharmacokinetics?

Hilopsilo, I particularly like your idea of comparing the headfuck/visuals ratio of different 4-subs. Do you have a personal ranking of which 4-sub tryptamines you find the most headfucking, the most visual, or the most balanced?

 

[yepyepwoah]

Best 4 sub experience ever?

Plugging like 25mg each of 4 ho met and 2cd with maybe 50-100mg mxe. Repeating this maybe twice. Waking up the next day being off work. Dosing two more times and just laying in bed listening to music having a fucking blast. Nothing threatening or weird or crazy. Just pure fucking bliss.

I had some 4 aco met as well. I liked the ho met better. The 4 aco seemed..."buzzier". Like, more anxiety maybe? it just felt more wild like something could happen while 4 ho met is chill.

Combing 4 aco dpt with DPT was fun. Maybe "fun" isn't the right word, but it was something all right.

 

[yepyepwoah]

When I make tea from mushrooms, the couch lock is severely reduced. And this is working with psilocybe cyanescens I've picked myself in the wild, which are known for greater greater lock. I think a lot of the couchlock is your stomach having to deal with breaking down the mushroom fibers which causes nausea and stomach cramping/pains, thus causing you to become lethargic overall. Kind of like how I become lethargic after eating a big meal or anytime my stomach is upset by anything I've eaten.

For me eating mushrooms straight up is a thing of the past; so much nicer to grind them up, put them in an herbal teabag, reseal and enjoy. Tastes better feels better. If you make the tea right I don't think you lose any potency either.

The first time I made tea the trip totally snuck up on me. We made it from year old shrooms that had been stored questionably, and without the initial stomach discomfort I had no idea they were gonna work until visuals started setting in.

I've made tea with panaelous cyanescens (sp?) I pickedabout 3 1/2 years ago. I've been hunting a bit in this area over the years, usually find psilocybe cubensis. What a treat to find this little blue mushrooms. 1g dose and you are flying. Some of the most visionary shit I have ever experienced. I was on a 1 1/2 year psych break, but damn. I'd like to go back and get some more one day.

 

[Beenhead]

Yes sir. P. cyanescens is a fantastic mushroom.

I had this place about 16 years ago I named Mushroom Island. Could only get to it by boat and had P. cubensis that got to the size of dinner plates , and you could pick pounds of them in a 10 min walk.

Went out one July and found a nuce patch of cyanescens on the edge of the trees, in the grass, but away from most of the dung. We picked maybe an ounce of them, possibly more. We made a tea, and it was so much cleaner feeling than the cubensis, possibly due to less organic matter. Very visual. I watched a sea breeze thunderstorm flare up and the lightning was truly majestic. Timeless.

Turns out mushroom island was not, in fact, and island. It only appeared so from the interstate and from the boat. It now hosts a galling subdivision and where my precious field was now sits a large retention pond with, I believe, a fountain in the middle. I am not sure as it makes me sick to look over at that gawdy example of my states ruin.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Volsam, TheAppleCore, Doclad, Hilopsilo, and others with lots of different 4-sub experiences, I'm curious how you'd compare the 4-AcO's to the 4-HO's in general. Are they totally different experiences? Or qualitatively similar to each other with variances in pharmacokinetics?

My experience directly comparing 4-HO and 4-AcO variants is somewhat limited. But so far, they have been similar enough both qualitatively and pharmacokinetically that I can't discern any difference with 100% certainty. I have sometimes gotten the impression that the acetate is overall more stable in its effect, whereas the indolol presents more of the rocky, wavelike motion of waxing and waning intoxication. The more constant effect of the acetate makes it seem somewhat easier to settle in comfortably to the experience. But again, this is nothing more than just some vague speculation for kicks.

 

[Solipsis]

^ That does seem to make pharmacokinetic sense and I pretty much agree..

The free indolol will just be free to act which gives you one degree of freedom in terms of your body's metabolism and it's unique profile. An ester will add one layer of your unique profile to that, basically the rate of dissociating it. It should also delay the kinetics a little. In practice it may not always feel like that because it doesn't in each person in each case guarantee that there will be such a slow onset and come-on.

Am growing a fat planter of Ps. Cyan (not to be confused with pan cyan of course) right now :D I haven't tried any such woodlovers yet, the 'hawaiian' shrooms legal in my country years ago were Pan Cyan (labeled Copelandia Cyanescens). In any case, I think a lot of species of shrooms (not varieties of cubensis) may be better than Cubensis in their alkaloid profile. Just like 4-HO-DMT synthetic, and honestly DMT or LSD, Pan Cyan felt strong but clear while mushrooms usually feel more complicated, dirty or fucked up. And I have read way too many accounts wholly consistent with that sentiment. Probably near perfectly consistent.

In any case my best exp was with 4-HO-MET and later I also smoked weed without tolerance. I also redosed the 4-HO-MET before that and within the hour, from 20 to 40 mg. Like other experiences with 4-HO-MET it increased the intensity but it didn't screw me up too much mentally even despite the weed. Gave me really nice and intricate CEV and OEVs some of which inspired cartoons and drawings i made later.

 

[Volsam]

Volsam, TheAppleCore, Doclad, Hilopsilo, and others with lots of different 4-sub experiences, I'm curious how you'd compare the 4-AcO's to the 4-HO's in general. Are they totally different experiences? Or qualitatively similar to each other with variances in pharmacokinetics?

There was a little thread a while ago, where I thought it would be interesting to compare subjective experiences of 4 subbed Acetoxy and Hydroxy tryptamines - http://bluelight.org/vb/threads/821...oxy-VS-Hydroxy-Subjective-general-differences

 

[Doclad]

I can only compare 4-aco-met with 4-ho-met.

In summary 4-ho-met is more playful, euphoric and visual. 4-aco-met is deeper, introspective and transcendent.


DocLad