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Bernie Sanders

Here is what I do know. He raised has a great family, he is not bought by the Koch brothers, no double speak as he speaks his mind, and he surrounds himself with smart people( not politicians). We already know Hilary is corrupt and we know she is a chickenhawk out to crush liberty in the name of "social justice" and political correctness. There is only one option here big guy.
 
Droppersneck said:
Here is what I do know. He raised has a great family, he is not bought by the Koch brothers...
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great. he has that in common with tens of millions of other men in the u.s.

president obama has raised a great family and is not bought by the koch brothers - are you a fan now?

Droppersneck said:
...no double speak as he speaks his mind
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trump supporters go on and on about how he speaks "his mind". except he doesn't. he lies freely and frequently. you have no idea what's on his mind because he'll tell you anything, even if it's completely untrue.

like i say, such fail.

alasdair
 
Speaking of fail...that foreign policy speech today. Yikes. Donald Trump reading a teleprompter.
 
If Sanders does lose to Clinton, he should open up his own private charity with the goal of redistributing wealth to poor communities and such. The guy has shown his ability to raise a ton of money that does not discriminate across tax brackets. If he can get millions to donate $27 to his campaign, how about a call for people to "donate $27 per month to the Bernie Sanders completely transparent wealth redistribution effort." It could be the biggest charity in America and give his supporters something to feel good about in the aftermath. And it could be much more efficient than the government at helping people.
 
About the foreign policy issue. America is the major superpower now. But that won't be Always so. If america decides to bully other nations now, there will come a day that china or india are gonna bully america. Establishing some kind of international way of dealing with issues, like taking the UN more seriously, no matter what a bore it is, will pay itself back in the future. I know people are gonna yawn, calling me whatever for saying this, and believe that invading countries at will, like in the case of Iraq is just much more fun, but again...america, like britain, france and spain before it, will at some point be dwarfed by some other major power or powers. That could realy become an extremely unpleasant experience, when things like ignoring international law becomes the norm.
 
alasdairm said:
such fail.

alasdair
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If Trump wins, what's going to happen? It's obvious he will shake up the Republican party but what after that? Congress won't take him seriously. It will be 4 years of gridlock and nothing done. The sheep might finally look up. The people who got the country into this mess in the first place (poor voting choices, economically and environmentally destructive lifestyles) might realize the US is messed up and most people under the age of 40 don't have a chance of enjoying the prosperity their parents enjoyed. The 2020 election will be the time for real change.

With Hilary, on the other hand, expect 8 more years of Clinton policies and scandals but with a love of war that will make Bush/Cheney look like doves.
 
socko said:
If Trump wins, what's going to happen? It's obvious he will shake up the Republican party but what after that? Congress won't take him seriously. It will be 4 years of gridlock and nothing done. The sheep might finally look up. The people who got the country into this mess in the first place (poor voting choices, economically and environmentally destructive lifestyles) might realize the US is messed up and most people under the age of 40 don't have a chance of enjoying the prosperity their parents enjoyed. The 2020 election will be the time for real change.

With Hilary, on the other hand, expect 8 more years of Clinton policies and scandals but with a love of war that will make Bush/Cheney look like doves.
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This. Oh my god this.
 
Dracarys said:
About the foreign policy issue. America is the major superpower now. But that won't be Always so. If america decides to bully other nations now, there will come a day that china or india are gonna bully america. Establishing some kind of international way of dealing with issues, like taking the UN more seriously, no matter what a bore it is, will pay itself back in the future. I know people are gonna yawn, calling me whatever for saying this, and believe that invading countries at will, like in the case of Iraq is just much more fun, but again...america, like britain, france and spain before it, will at some point be dwarfed by some other major power or powers. That could realy become an extremely unpleasant experience, when things like ignoring international law becomes the norm.
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Replace UN with NATO and I agree :D

I will tell you that I have a had time imagining the Indians or Chinese getting up enough balls to come over to the US to start bullying. It would make the US's forays into the middle east look like an easter egg hunt.
 
RedLeader said:
If Sanders does lose to Clinton, he should open up his own private charity with the goal of redistributing wealth to poor communities and such. The guy has shown his ability to raise a ton of money that does not discriminate across tax brackets. If he can get millions to donate $27 to his campaign, how about a call for people to "donate $27 per month to the Bernie Sanders completely transparent wealth redistribution effort." It could be the biggest charity in America and give his supporters something to feel good about in the aftermath. And it could be much more efficient than the government at helping people.
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Haha, this is a great idea. Especially in the face of the super wealthy abusing charities as money laundering facades. It would give people something real to donate to if it would stay transparent.
 
I love that idea - I've been thinking about that a lot as the possibility of him winning the nomination gets lower. There's still so much energy and MONEY behind him, there are so many possibilities as to what it can go towards. I guess for now we keep fighting and getting as many delegates as possible.


Anyway I'm finally going to see Bernie today in Springfield, OR and I'm super excited =D
 
socko said:
If Trump wins, what's going to happen? It's obvious he will shake up the Republican party but what after that? Congress won't take him seriously. It will be 4 years of gridlock and nothing done.
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good question.

firstly, i think he tries to make good on his immigration plans and that will cost the u.s. a huge amount. from The American Action Forum. The Budgetary And Economic Costs Of Addressing Unauthorized Immigration: Alternative Strategies

the implications of immediately and fully enforcing current law, and find that it would be fiscally and economically costly. The federal government would have to spend roughly $400 billion to $600 billion to address the 11.2 million undocumented immigrants and prevent future unlawful entry into the United States. In order to remove all undocumented immigrants, each immigrant would have to be apprehended, detained, legally processed, and transported to his or her home country. In turn, this would shrink the labor force by 11 million workers and reduce real GDP by $1.6 trillion.
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then he cuts taxes hugely, favoring the rich. sure, gdp goes up but the federal budget deficit goes nuts. he has said that he'll cut spending but, alike so many of his plans, he has not begun to indicate how he would actually do it beyond "yeah. yeah. we'll take a look at that."

then i assume he tries to repeal obamacare: HEALTHCARE REFORM TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

too bad he's done a complete 180 (i think we call that a massive flip-flop) from the donald in 2000 when, in his book the america we deserve, he was all about universal healthcare.

oh well. as with so many trump issues, who knows what he really believes on the issue.

fuck only knows what happens to the country socially but i think it will be a shit show with his racist rhetoric fueling racist violence and backlash all over the u.s.

alasdair
 
I agree ali my man and you make some good points. still wonder about his motives in all of this tbch. why does he REALLY want to be potus? does he...really?

I fear hillary just as much tho in the grand scheme of things and I think she might be worse in the long haul. she isn't a leader and is too scared to stand up for anything that isn't already pre approved. she doesn't have an original idea or thought in her body. we need some creativity this day and age. we need a strong leader that doesn't just use lip service to get votes and then keep things as usual. This country can't afford things as usual anymore imho.
 
I read a great article about recent prosperity they have seen since they demagnetized the state of ax to illegals.fixing immigration isn't the answer to all of our problems, but it is a step in the right direction towards being economically viable again. We shouldn't deport anyone or build a wall rather consistently fine those that hire illegals with very stiff penalties. Once cheap labor becomes scarce big business will be forced to either use more technology but mainly come to the table and offer a market wage to make undesirable positions palatable. Not rocket science, it just doesn't fit into the political mold ATM
 
^ What do you have to say for Trump's rhetoric on Wall Street (basically looking to undo the regulations that have been put in place to prevent 2008-style disaster from happening again.) Amidst all of the talk about Trump, I don't see much discussion on the fact that he is literally advocating for less regulation of Wall Street.
 
I would definitely vote for Clinton if it came down to it (which it is certainly looking like it will). Clinton is a shape shifting politician for sure, but her constituency is such that she is promising to continue on Obama-era policies and I feel that this is certainly better than the alternative. Bernie would have been perhaps a better choice for many of us due to his clear dedication to his populist moral philosophies, but at the same time, the last thing I want to see is the country slip back into another conservative era. Just look how much more liberal the country is today than it was eight years ago. Gays are marrying, marijuana is becoming legalized, women are pushing towards ever greater equality... Race tensions are somewhat high but finally being addressed. On the economic side, there was a major crash just before Obama's inauguration stemming from excessive risk in the finance markets that has been at least partially addressed during his tenure and right now the economy is without a doubt the strongest in the world. This is how I view the Obama era. As we move towards its end, if the choice of successor is between Clinton and Trump, I know that I want the politician who is appealing to continue Obama's policies.
 
Droppersneck said:
I read a great article about recent prosperity they have seen since they demagnetized the state of ax to illegals.fixing immigration isn't the answer to all of our problems, but it is a step in the right direction towards being economically viable again. We shouldn't deport anyone or build a wall rather consistently fine those that hire illegals with very stiff penalties. Once cheap labor becomes scarce big business will be forced to either use more technology but mainly come to the table and offer a market wage to make undesirable positions palatable. Not rocket science, it just doesn't fit into the political mold ATM
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Hey congratulations man that's pretty much Bernie's position, maybe you should stop swallowing the stuff about him being a communist who's going to give away free stuff and be more open. Wonder why a "socialist" consistently gets the most conservative people in his home state to vote for him.
 
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