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Mental Health Benzos: How bad are they long term?

nznity

nznity

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Jan 24, 2017
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Hey guys,
I've got a couple questions, I'm currently on 20mg diazepam AM and 1-2 2mg clonazepam depending if im relaxed enough to just sleep on one cause I'm going through a rough time atm and sometimes I need 2 to knock me out and stop my racing thought.
Well, I don't plan to be taking this much for a really longggg timeeeee, ill cut off the diazepam and then slowly taper off the clonaz but im scared of WDs, I have plenty of experience with opi and pentinoids wds but I've read BENZO WDS are the WORST. So, sometimes I think of just staying on clonaz indefinitely plus they sell it OTC iny country.
OK, anyway what I wanted to know is:
How detrimental are benzos long term?
Are they hepatoxic or nephrotoxic?
I know they fuck up with memory and shit sometimes but I feel comfy on them and can be productive/functional on them(unlike Opiates)
IM AWARE EVERY DRUG TAKES ITS TOLL ON THE LONG RUN but what if I have an infinite supply and don't really abuse em.
That's pretty much it,
Thanks in advance
nico
 
Addictive. Withdrawals can be life-threatening. Other than that depending on your age they can accelerate the onset of dementia and the normal decline in cognitive abilities. But I take between 1.5 and 2 mg a day of Klonopin and I'm not particularly worried at age 52. Although I always break the pills and like taking less
 
I astonish myself at in my mind a relative lack of cognitive decline, vs what I would envisage.

Benzos alone. Not too longterm but silly amounts (2 years now) like still 10 mg's Etizolam daily is simply insufficient before long to serve purpose.

And those crazy accidental overdoses. Prices paying atm ofc but somehow, it's not upsetting me feeling any significant cognitive struggle at least.

I know what it feels like, to experience sudden mental retardation. Directly from MDMA.

That is reason 2 I don't plan to risk taking MDMA again.

All the LSD in the world and my imagination and speech, vocab, ease there is as crisp and effortless as ever.

Much moreso in truth. Since really embarking on the work. No social anxiety, struggle at all. Pure ease. Pure natural too.

One single MDMA dose I would expect to notice a reduction in my general communication, vocal especially, and perfect ease having any old line of talk any time, like thinking to speak doesn't exist.

MDMA would mess with that immediately.
 
Apart from suggestions about dementia in my little mind and imagination the two worst things about benzodiazepines are side-effects while you are on them and withdrawals and long-lasting psychological disruptions when you get off them.

And the potential dangers involved both physical and mental if the situation is highly unstable and volatile.

For example in my own case if I was only going to live until next year then I don't really need to address my benzodiazepine addiction and as long as I am covered for supply then reducing usage would pay off but apart from that as long as I don't feel too rough I could continue for another year because it would make it harder in the long run coming off and there are supply factors as well.

But apart from that...
 
AutoTripper said:
Apart from suggestions about dementia in my little mind and imagination the two worst things about benzodiazepines are side-effects while you are on them and withdrawals and long-lasting psychological disruptions when you get off them.

And the potential dangers involved both physical and mental if the situation is highly unstable and volatile.

For example in my own case if I was only going to live until next year then I don't really need to address my benzodiazepine addiction and as long as I am covered for supply then reducing usage would pay off but apart from that as long as I don't feel too rough I could continue for another year because it would make it harder in the long run coming off and there are supply factors as well.

But apart from that...
Click to expand...
What about hepatoxicity? Because I kinda constantly mix em up with alcohol, not to the point of blacking out but still dunno.
Same with my kidneys, so far from what ive read about benzos they have mínimal damage on your organs.....mhmmm what do u think?
 
Not particularly hepatotoxic or nephrotoxic.

They are associated with cognitive decline, and can permanently desensitize GABA receptors to the effects of endogeneous GABA even after discontinuation. This is a form of brain damage, I've certainly been a victim of this.

There is also some speculation that they may be carcinogenic to some degree, specifically increased rates of brain cancers and i believe colorectal cancers if i recall correctly. Supposedly the 7-nitro benzodiazepines are the most carcinogenic (for example clonazepam).
 
nznity said:
What about hepatoxicity? Because I kinda constantly mix em up with alcohol, not to the point of blacking out but still dunno.
Same with my kidneys, so far from what ive read about benzos they have mínimal damage on your organs.....mhmmm what do u think?
Click to expand...
I actually honestly don't think it's a concern because I've put these matters to the test I don't go in blind but with some trust and intuition and cautiously at first and I was actually watching this and with various health monitors as well.

Also, as I picked up daily Kava use the same time 2 years ago, which must not be combined with alcohol as kava disables some key enzymes which take out those liver toxins, so hepatotoxicity is guaranteed if continued.

So I was aware Etizolam is processed by the liver, therefore mindful.

All has appeared a false alarm in that actual significant toxicity ever to any damage, even with overdoses effectively equivalent to 700 mg's Diazepam, by accident, as also lots of Kava greatly potentiates the benzos, vice versa, like a doubling of effect to take either in addition.

I reckon Kava surely extends the half life too. It increases plasma and slows clearance.

So with Kavalactones permanently in the system, it's just like having taken more Etizolam.

So in my mind, it's no different.

Like more weed smoked, never held in for a second. Silly analogy, stoned! (Not smoke though.)

I was very assured seeing this because I had not expected it.

I am using the pure powder atm, so no idea exact amounts.

But once I have a visual gauge there's no chance I would take 35 mg by accident when capable of measuring by eye as with solution.

Still today ended up being an unexpectedly stressful affair a number of times with some really bizarre universal interventions just to speak me out a little bit.

Sending me into quite a state of stress which I was in prior after loads of other things on a big journey somewhere.

So I was seeking a dose I would normally use on such an occasion which would be 10 to 15 mg but I had already taken an unknown amount maybe 8 mg.

The first scoop I took I reflected and considered it might be 20 mg or more which I can't risk now I just can't risk another blackout fullstop.

I was outside so I just quickly found a grassy patch and spat it out I normally only ever split into a drain religiously when I am out.

I then re-dosed more several times and judging by affects I think in total I had taken probably 30 mg but I did not blackout for lose consciousness just felt a bit rough and like I just needed to be in bed for a long time. Heavy.

One redose tonight, prob 5 mg's.

I will have to weigh out a new solution. Just be sure to stir always properly, then shake. No settle then.
 
I know I'm fucked basically but then there's so many contributing factors to that.

It's remarkable I'm not a lot more fucked and if I just was not physically dependent for a start to the point where I did not have to suffer the physical discomfort of withdrawals.

Then I do have this maybe misplaced faith in the strength of the mind and imagination in the long term and what we are able to overcome it's silly to me still that I managed to overcome the MDMA abuse neurosis decades ago and recover speech and communication not just to the level it was beforehand but a significantly easier more natural and more developed one but then LSD has been instrumental in this particular developmental work.

But if I'm basically just not very wasted I could so easily act and play the part of somebody who has never touched a single drug in their life and be very creative and convincing and imaginative about it answering questions denying stuff I reckon I could do that down to a tee and be very believable.

It totally does not display at all cognitively or intellectually in first person going about in the world and speaking to people and communicating that I am on in my estimation quite a ridiculous amount of Benzo permanently. (As in 24/7/365)

So I believe it's also a phenomenon the same one with a different drug so I'm hoping that in the long run if there is one my mind and imagination and consciousness could in time be unaffected to a degree.
 
The big test will be if you can sleep without them, taking benzos every night to knock yourself out to sleep is the most detrimental aspect of benzo addiction.

If you can't sleep long term after tapering off perhaps try a anti psychotic med like Olanzapine or Seroquel.

I was addicted to benzos and GHB to put me to sleep 35 years ago and to this day I can't sleep for shit.

And I did the right thing and weined myself off them both in a hospital setting.

But I can sleep now, it just takes me 4-5 hours to drift off to sleep. Suxs but I'd rather not be dependent on benzos and GHB to sleep.
 
negrogesic said:
Not particularly hepatotoxic or nephrotoxic.

They are associated with cognitive decline, and can permanently desensitize GABA receptors to the effects of endogeneous GABA even after discontinuation. This is a form of brain damage, I've certainly been a victim of this.

There is also some speculation that they may be carcinogenic to some degree, specifically increased rates of brain cancers and i believe colorectal cancers if i recall correctly. Supposedly the 7-nitro benzodiazepines are the most carcinogenic (for example clonazepam).
Click to expand...
Dammm dude, ty. That's the kinda Info I was looking for, such a bummer cause clonaz is my fav benzo but well ill have to tough it out once again then......eventually...
 
Boku_ said:
The big test will be if you can sleep without them, taking benzos every night to knock yourself out to sleep is the most detrimental aspect of benzo addiction.

If you can't sleep long term after tapering off perhaps try a anti psychotic med like Olanzapine or Seroquel.

I was addicted to benzos and GHB to put me to sleep 35 years ago and to this day I can't sleep for shit.

And I did the right thing and weined myself off them both in a hospital setting.

But I can sleep now, it just takes me 4-5 hours to drift off to sleep. Suxs but I'd rather not be dependent on benzos and GHB to sleep.
Click to expand...
Damnnnnn....
 
AutoTripper said:
I astonish myself at in my mind a relative lack of cognitive decline, vs what I would envisage.

Benzos alone. Not too longterm but silly amounts (2 years now) like still 10 mg's Etizolam daily is simply insufficient before long to serve purpose.

And those crazy accidental overdoses. Prices paying atm ofc but somehow, it's not upsetting me feeling any significant cognitive struggle at least.

I know what it feels like, to experience sudden mental retardation. Directly from MDMA.

That is reason 2 I don't plan to risk taking MDMA again.

All the LSD in the world and my imagination and speech, vocab, ease there is as crisp and effortless as ever.

Much moreso in truth. Since really embarking on the work. No social anxiety, struggle at all. Pure ease. Pure natural too.

One single MDMA dose I would expect to notice a reduction in my general communication, vocal especially, and perfect ease having any old line of talk any time, like thinking to speak doesn't exist.

MDMA would mess with that immediately.
Click to expand...
Sounds like what you're saying is etizolam has lost the plot. And ecstasy is toxic compared to desoxyn. Maybe there is a conspiracy when it comes to drugs
 
darvocet21 said:
Sounds like what you're saying is etizolam has lost the plot. And ecstasy is toxic compared to desoxyn. Maybe there is a conspiracy when it comes to drugs
Click to expand...
MDMA is not more toxic than meth by some measures. For instance meth is better at causing damage to dopamine neurons than MDMA.

Neither one is good long-term.
 
nznity said:
Hey guys,
I've got a couple questions, I'm currently on 20mg diazepam AM and 1-2 2mg clonazepam depending if im relaxed enough to just sleep on one cause I'm going through a rough time atm and sometimes I need 2 to knock me out and stop my racing thought.
Well, I don't plan to be taking this much for a really longggg timeeeee, ill cut off the diazepam and then slowly taper off the clonaz but im scared of WDs, I have plenty of experience with opi and pentinoids wds but I've read BENZO WDS are the WORST. So, sometimes I think of just staying on clonaz indefinitely plus they sell it OTC iny country.
OK, anyway what I wanted to know is:
How detrimental are benzos long term?
Are they hepatoxic or nephrotoxic?
I know they fuck up with memory and shit sometimes but I feel comfy on them and can be productive/functional on them(unlike Opiates)
IM AWARE EVERY DRUG TAKES ITS TOLL ON THE LONG RUN but what if I have an infinite supply and don't really abuse em.
That's pretty much it,
Thanks in advance
nico
Click to expand...
Fuck. I just wrote a post about my own hellish withdrawal, only 3 days after I ran out of xanax. I have also been on the pins (clonazepam), and know they have a much longer half-life. Dude, I cannot WAIT to be off this shit. And I'm a almost 20 year heroin vet. Been only at 1mg xan for over a year. NO FUCKIN FUN.
 
simstim said:
MDMA is not more toxic than meth by some measures. For instance meth is better at causing damage to dopamine neurons than MDMA.

Neither one is good long-term.
Click to expand...
Only by the measures that count. A single exposure to an active dose: ~110-135 mg MDMA v. ~5-15mg Desoxyn. Of course I'm not referring to Chronic abuse that's a poor standard to compared the safety and efficacy of drugs. Which one has resulted in (permanent? probably not..?) damage to the dendritic structures in the brain and brain stem. MDMA. What's the supposed to be with lsdu was going to be only better. Where are the relationships that saved hey where all the lives transformed into selfless Buddhas. Why did MDMA resurface in huge quantities 70 years after it was first synthesized and studied. Why was it sold out of bars and nightclubs in Texas of all places at the very moment the drug war was ratcheting up in the late seventies/ early 80s. Don't get me wrong I don't I'm not down on MDMA. I had probably the best experiences of my life on it.

IF it could be obtained pharmaceutical meth would be benign in the recommended dose range. But then who gets to take Pharma quality kryptonite except establishment politicians, military leaders, their wives and lovers?
 
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The recommended dosages you pointed out are a pretty good indicator that MDMA is far LESS toxic than meth. That's primarily because mg for mg METH is a much more potent stimulant. In every way.

In all of the neurotoxicity studies I have read the doses of meth administered to experimental animals to induce neurotoxicity is a much lower mg/kg than the neurotoxic doses of MDMA.

All of that points to meth being far more toxic. Not MDMA.

I can tell you from personal experience that 120mg of meth up the nose is far more stimulating than 120mg of MDMA. It is also more neurotoxic and lasts way, way longer.
 
darvocet21 said:
Only by the measures that count. A single exposure to an active dose: ~110-135 mg MDMA v. ~5-15mg Desoxyn. Of course I'm not referring to Chronic abuse that's a poor standard to compared the safety and efficacy of drugs. Which one has resulted in (permanent? probably not..?) damage to the dendritic structures in the brain and brain stem. MDMA. What's the supposed to be with lsdu was going to be only better. Where are the relationships that saved hey where all the lives transformed into selfless Buddhas. Why did MDMA resurface in huge quantities 70 years after it was first synthesized and studied. Why was it sold out ofrs and nightclubs in Texas of all places at the very moment the drug war was ratcheting up in the late seventies/ early 80s. Don't get me wrong I don't I'm not down on MDMA. I had probably the best experiences of my life on it.

IF it could be obtained pharmaceutical meth would be benign in the recommended dose range. But then who gets to take Pharma quality kryptonite except establishment politicians, military leaders, their wives and lovers?
Click to expand...
Man, mdma is fucking medicine for the soul. I've been depressed for the last year and the other day my bro visited me with a bag of some proper good dutch HIGH DOSE MDMA pills. I hadnt rolled in a year and a half. FUCK ME, THOSE PURPLE PILLS HIT ME SO HARD. I felt fucking alive again.dam I love MDMA
 
Single doses of MDMA cause more evidence of serotonin depletion than MA (methamphetamine). Which is why I think you think it is more toxic.

However the opposite is true when you look at the damage caused to dopamine neurons. Meth clearly causes more damage and at a fraction of the dose when compared to MDMA.

Meth is also a much more potent cardiovascular stimulant (again comparing mg to mg) making it more toxic to the heart and blood vessels than MDMA.

That is why I said meth is less toxic on some measures. The only measure where MDMA is more toxic than meth is serotonin depletion from a single dose.

For certain mg to mg meth is a more potent toxin otherwise their recommended dosages would be the same.
 
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