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benzofuran entactogens summary and comparison

ungelesene_bettlek

ungelesene_bettlek

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the benzofuran based entactogens have now been a big thing for several years. I have to admit that I haven't followed this development too closely, since my interest in entactogens is generally not too high. but now there are so much of these compounds out there, that I would appreciate if someone knowledgeable could give me a short introduction in a nutshell. sorry if this is a bit too much asking for spoonfeding, but I really don't have the time to go through all the existing threads...

so, as far as I have noticed, the following compounds of this class has already appeard on the market:
5-APDI (IAP)
5-IT (5-API)
5-APB
6-APB
5-APDB (EMA-4)
6-APDB (EMA-3)
5-MAPB
5-EAPB

(btw, a comment for the mods: many of those compounds already have a big&dandy thread, but not all of them are linked in the "psychedelic index". so, if one of you has too much time at hand...)

or am I something missing? could someone familiar with more of those compounds give a short and founded comparison? what I have gathered so far is that 6-APDI and 6-APDB are pretty selective serotonin releasers, 5-API is highly stimulating and toxic, 5-APB and 6-APB are well-appreciated MDA-like drugs, and 5-MAPB is often called a pretty good MDMA replacement (at least by the people trying to sell it). about 6-APDB I have heard nothing yet, I think it has not been on the market for too long now. 5-EAPB is the latest family member, brought to the light for legal reasons, and my gut feeling somehow tells me that it is probably a poor replacement for 5-MAPB.

now by straight forward molecular design, one could easily create the following compounds out of the ones above:
6-MAPB
5-MAPDB
6-MAPDB
6-EAPB
5-EAPDB
6-EAPDB
5-MAPDI

most likely none of them will ever see the light of the RC market because of the general UK ban. can someone give an educated guess if one of them could be a hidden gem, or would it all just be more of the same anyways?
 
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I'd love to see 5 and 6 MAPDB become available. Wonder what the effects would be.
 
Folley said:
^ It honestly terrifies me that people hope to see an untested substance released upon the mass public especially, if they have little to no idea of the effects it may have in humans.
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I see your point, but on the other hand I always picture this being done with at least some testing.
 
black53 said:
I see your point, but on the other hand I always picture this being done with at least some testing.
Click to expand...
There was an article in the Drug in the Media forum awhile back where there was an interview with one of the Chinese chemists who were producing the likes of NRG1, 2, 3 etc., and in it the chemist said he stopped producing some to the products after he tried them. In other words, he was producing compounds and shipping them to retailers without testing. I'm not sure if the retailers test them or not. Judging by some of the reports I've read on some of the shadier branded stimulants -- which included things like staying up for days feeling nasty and "cracked" out, but not very good, and then having strange side effects -- I don't think much testing is done. If a retailer stocked some minimum quantity that cost them a lot of money of some mystery compound it's going on sale. I think some retailers have tests conducted to confirm the identity and purity of the substances, and maybe some of them try it themselves to see what the subjective effects are before they sell it, but proper clinical trials cost a hell of a lot of money and I guarantee nothing remotely near scientific is being done to test the effects before the compounds are sold.
 
psood0nym said:
There was an article in the Drug in the Media forum awhile back where there was an interview with one of the Chinese chemists who were producing the likes of NRG1, 2, 3 etc., and in it the chemist said he stopped producing some to the products after he tried them. In other words, he was producing compounds and shipping them to retailers without testing. I'm not sure if the retailers test them or not. Judging by some of the reports I've read on some of the shadier branded stimulants -- which included things like staying up for days feeling nasty and "cracked" out, but not very good, and then having strange side effects -- I don't think much testing is done. If a retailer stocked some minimum quantity that cost them a lot of money of some mystery compound it's going on sale. I think some retailers have tests conducted to confirm the identity and purity of the substances, and maybe some of them try it themselves to see what the subjective effects are before they sell it, but proper clinical trials cost a hell of a lot of money and I guarantee nothing remotely near scientific is being done to test the effects before the compounds are sold.
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I find it worrying that people need to convince themselves of this. Nobody ever claimed these RC were ever tested, and THAT'S OKAY, we shouldn't be concerned about it: they simply are not. We are the testers, we (should?) know (guess?) the risks and potential benefits. The chemists who made them received a contract to just make them, and they do their jobs remarkably well! Good for them! "Not for human consumption" is NOT just a legal protection, these things were simply not made for human consumption. It has become very difficult to say that without sounding alarmist: I am not being alarmist, I am just reminding everyone of how this thing works. Stop trying to reassure yourselves by hoping that maybe someone tested them, and take this emphatic and warning tone to say that "well it is very likely that they are not tested". Saying things like that is dangerous, as it sets the general attitude towards the idea that anything should have been tested somewhere, somehow, by somebody, or else you wouldn't have it in your hands right now. So, stop trying to justify the possibility that they weren't tested. They simply weren't, and were never supposed to be.


There is another thing I want to add. It appears these chemists are oftentimes based in China, and nobody ever misses the opportunity to remind whomever about it, as if this would indicate an additional danger. I find this borderline racist as the vast majority of BL users (and similar HR boards) are European and North American. YES, these compounds are made in China, but just like pretty much ANY manufactured item around you, and for the EXACT SAME economic reasons. This isn't a question of asking some shady people as remote as possible to do the job, or at least not more than for the latest shiny StupidComputer with a picture of a fruit on it. Like it or not (I don't, really, but what can I do), the West comes up with ideas and designs, the Chinese manufacture them.
 
ZFC said:
I find it worrying that people need to convince themselves of this. Nobody ever claimed these RC were ever tested, and THAT'S OKAY, we shouldn't be concerned about it: they simply are not. We are the testers, we (should?) know (guess?) the risks and potential benefits. The chemists who made them received a contract to just make them, and they do their jobs remarkably well! Good for them! "Not for human consumption" is NOT just a legal protection, these things were simply not made for human consumption. It has become very difficult to say that without sounding alarmist: I am not being alarmist, I am just reminding everyone of how this thing works. Stop trying to reassure yourselves by hoping that maybe someone tested them, and take this emphatic and warning tone to say that "well it is very likely that they are not tested". Saying things like that is dangerous, as it sets the general attitude towards the idea that anything should have been tested somewhere, somehow, by somebody, or else you wouldn't have it in your hands right now. So, stop trying to justify the possibility that they weren't tested. They simply weren't, and were never supposed to be.


There is another thing I want to add. It appears these chemists are oftentimes based in China, and nobody ever misses the opportunity to remind whomever about it, as if this would indicate an additional danger. I find this borderline racist as the vast majority of BL users (and similar HR boards) are European and North American. YES, these compounds are made in China, but just like pretty much ANY manufactured item around you, and for the EXACT SAME economic reasons. This isn't a question of asking some shady people as remote as possible to do the job, or at least not more than for the latest shiny StupidComputer with a picture of a fruit on it. Like it or not (I don't, really, but what can I do), the West comes up with ideas and designs, the Chinese manufacture them.
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It has nothing to do with racism as chinese chemists will agree to this trend themselves because it is absolutely undeniable in the field of chemistry (and scientific peer reviewed articles on this very topic have been published as well).

People that are successful in china (chemists for example) did not get to where they are JUST from being decent chemists. The competition is just to fierce in china, due to the number of people overall and the number of students going into scientific disciplines VS jobs available. Success in china's basic academic research is largely based on cutting corners scientifically. This results in the much higher number of questionable publications, retracted scientific papers, papers not accepted by top journals and scientists that have not been properly or ethically trained....again these statistics are facts that have been documented, look them up, they result from the sorts of pressure researchers face (personal and government/funding) and research ethical standard in china.


most chemists do not even bother trying to reproduce chemistry published from chinese groups as it is usually misrepresented and not practically useful (ie yeilds will be 10% instead of 99% as published) or product selectivity is not for a single isomer as published.

Having worked with many chinese chemists, I'll say they are mostly very selfish, doing anything they can to put themselves ahead and put you behind them. They are not very fond of westerners, sure they are extremely polite to your face, but they are doing that just to get ahead. The probability that they are being extra careful not to poison a bunch of hedonistic, selfish, drug using, rich westerners (an ideal they despise) is VERY LOW.
 
ZFC said:
YES, these compounds are made in China, but just like pretty much ANY manufactured item around you, and for the EXACT SAME economic reasons.
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My impression is that this is incorrect.

RC manufacturing is a "gray" market, sometimes very gray. It is my impression that industry and general market chemical manufacturers, of which do *easily* exist in China with excellent quality, don't get into this marketplace. If someone can show me, to use an arbitrary manufacturing quality standard, a ISO 9001 certified chemical company that actually manufactures RCs, I will be very amazed. Certainly RC manufacturers don't go through the even more stringent technical regulation of the pharmaceutical industries in the US and Europe.

There is a better correlation to the general supplements market -- I don't think all supplements are always made with the best quality control, either. However, the couple of articles I've seen on RC manufacturers that actually go inside look pretty awful, worse than I imagine supplement manufacturers look (maybe).

China really isn't about race, it's about economic conditions. If chemicals were not regulated, you would see the same sort of thing going on here -- don't kid yourself, there's plenty of people that just care about the dollar, and actually some RCs I have heard *do* get manufactured in the US, Canada, various European locations, etc.

However, the chemical industry is quite tightly controlled in the US and Europe (probably almost *too* tightly controlled). It is not quite so controlled in emerging markets, and although China is the most prominent example (due to its education + lax regulation) other countries such as India have contributed to the RC market for the same reasons.

China also has a reputation. Where else would someone add melamine to infant formula to fraudulently increase protein content, poisoning 300,000 infants? Where else has "airpocalypse" level smog made face masks a fashion statement? There's some other offenders (pollution in India and other places like Mexico isn't exactly peachy) but China's become a symbol of sorts for capitalism without a soul, environment and lives and everything else be damned, it's all about the connections to The State Party and money and growth at all costs. It is what it is, the US and Europe went through phases just like this in a way.
 
PD -> MED.

blackr53 said:
I see your point, but on the other hand I always picture this being done with at least some testing.
Click to expand...

"Gee, I sure do hope these drug dealers whom I've never met and who give less than two fucks about my well-being will go to extra risk and expense to protect me"

Folley said:
^ It honestly terrifies me that people hope to see an untested substance released upon the mass public, especially if they have little to no idea of the effects it may have in humans.
Click to expand...

Hey, what's one more log on the fire? We can't burn the world down with these reasonable cautious attitudes :p
 
I think that most research chemicals are made in China not just because China has very little regulation of the production of chemicals for export but also because with few exceptions, precursors and intermediates are all legal in China as well as the end product.

European labs are much more limited, US labs are the most limited, and Indian labs don't really want to get all that involved after the mephedrone disaster.

The Chinese have always been extremely liberal when it comes to exporting drugs while going so far as to enacting execution penalties for domestic drug abuse. Hell look at what happened with ketamine. It was one of the largest "underground" export products that China ever had -- and it led to the public execution of a number of lab operators when the world governments got ticked about it. Now its on the rise again but still pretty hush hush and research chemicals now shine.

You can get anything that you want if you know the right person in China to talk to in order to get it synthesized and you have the right amount of cash. That's a fact.
 
Hi,

the only reason I am writing this post is to warn you about the 6-MAPDB effects.
The other benzofurans I took are just for comparison in effects.

I experimented with following benzofurans:

6-APB
5-APB
5-MAPB
6-APDB
and what a vendor claimed to be 6-MAPBD

6-APB and 5-APB are almost indistinguishable from each other. I tried them in combination and separately as 'pure' substance and branded pills.
Both are very close to MDA in effect for me. 5-APB being slightly on the trippy side. There's plenty written on those two, so I wont elaborate.

5-MAPB is very close to MDMA. I hate this comparison myself, but that is the best way I can describe it. This one is well documented as well.

6-APDB is very close to other benzofurans. The last time I took it was about 4 years ago. Don't remeber much.

I was not very impressed with 6-MAPBD to say the least.
Got it in late October of 2014 from a trusted Central European vendor which provided very nice phenethylamine class compound 1 year prior to this experience.
Visually It looked very much like 6-APB which circulated UK market before the ban. Slightly lighter shade of light brown I guess. The distinctive smell was present but milder.
I don't recall the exact quantity I took (~150mg divided in to two equal doses taken during the session), but what alarmed me that I got all the side effect associated with benzofuran use in high doses - sweating, minor bruxims and palpilations, bowel movement, etc., minus serotonin release. Slight dyshoria was present during experience together with what you might call 'brain zaps' which occurred during 7th or 8th hour in to experience. Falling asleep was difficult. Terrible headache the next day and I rarely get headaches at all. To sum up - I felt poisoned. In a piperazine poisoned way.
By the way, I flushed the powder after the second dosing.
I would exclude a possibility of drug interactions, because I did not took any. My tolerance is very low as I did not take any phenethylamines for 6 months prior to this experience.
That's no 'hidden gem' for sure.
I would recommend to be careful with this one or avoid it at all.

Thanks for reading.
Stafe safe.
 
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience. However, that does not prove 6-MAPDB is bad, or that you got bunk product. I know many people including myself who have gotten a similar experience from lab tested pure MDMA. Sometimes empathogens just makes you feel like shit. Perhaps it is a wake up call for something, I don't know what.
 
Sounds like you simply dosed too high. Cutting your dose in half would have been a start. Then working up to maybe 100mg, as you said you had not taken anything for 6 months. Any one compare this to 5-MAPDB?
 
5-EAPB is generally thought to be crap. I have only tried 6-APB, 5-APB and 5-MAPB - I might be in a minority but I think they are all half-assed. 6-APB is speedy slightly trippy and feel dirty unhealthy. 5-APB and 5-MAPB have a different feel and are somewhat similar - they are just a tired mongy feel with no real positives such as empathy or bonding or socialising. The 6/5-APB combo has a bit more swing but I think these benzoflurans are basically duff - methylone and mephedrone are much more joyous and fun and nice and piss all over them but really nothing has come within a mile of MDMA. Sure there are lots of possible benzoflurans but I won't be risking my heart values on them.
 
I wish rc's would disappear being replaced by a steady flow of real mdma, mda and lsd.


Dont get me wrong, Ive done some damn good rc's that compare to mdma and mda, but i think we're better off with the original material
 
I don't agree. All the originals are available and some of these are wonderful additions in their own right.
AL-LAD and 1P-LSD come to mind. Some prefer them over LSD-25.
 
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