Benzodiazepine Question for People Who Never/Rarely Abused Their Prescription.

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Is it worth it to take a benzo long-term if the dose is kept reasonably low? Will there be eventually simply no relief whatsoever from this dose, or will it just be a lot weaker? Basically, I'm asking if benzodiazepines are a complete sham--simply create addiction--or if they indefinitely work in a therapeutic way once any "euphoria" or what have you passes in several months. Long-term, barring any continued abuse, might it work? Could one simply be on it for life in the same way as heroin addicts in the United Kingdom are given their fix into eternity?

I'm pretty sure that this question has been vaguely answered but I searched for and couldn't find a thread specifically about this, and nevertheless want more opinions. Thanks.

 

[gaktattack]

You know, I have tried abusing them and have found that they really aren't a fun high, if a high at all. The relaxation is nice, and i wouldn't mind having a stash for job interviews etc, but taking it long term sounds like too much hassle(the withdrawal profile alone should make people less inclined to use them). My friend is a speed freak, and he says "Benzos cut my broccoli". Meaning, they stunt his thinking, which is actually true. Long term studies basically show that benzos cause brain damage and cognitive impairment.

My best time with benzos was when I had gotten about 5 ounces of liquid clonazepam from mexico. I would just take a sip(in the beginning it only took 4 drops or so) and relax. Every other benzo I actually tried to get high off of I either took too little to be pleasantly high, or blacked out. Based on opiates, GHB, and Soma, I think I would have been a huge barbiturate/methaqualone fan had I been born in another time, Hell, I should make some chloral hydrate and give it a whirl.

To actually address your question, I think that everyday use is bad. I am sure they will lose their effectiveness and you will be left with just another addiction. If your supply is interrupted, you run a severe risk of status epileptics. I think it is definitely not worth getting addicted to.

 

[RobotRipping]

i think it is still disputed as to whether benzos cause long term cognitive damage or not. They do make me incredibly stupid when i abused them but my memory and cognitive abilities returned a few months after quitting. Now if i have to take valium at a therapeutic dose i don't notice any impairment.

This is a question i struggled with when i was trying to figure out how to deal with my anxiety. For some people they can stay at the same dose for years and years and it is still effective. Other people seem to keep upping their dose until it ends up in disaster but it's hard to say whether they occasionally abused their meds or not. I never ended up with a clear answer. In the end i think there are better ways to deal with anxiety, therapy and having a benzo on hand for peak anxiety or panic attacks is probably the best solution.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Benzodiazepines are not good to take on a continuous long-term basis, they almost always decrease in effectiveness and eventually stop working, and frequently greatly exacerbate the symptoms you were using them for in the first place. Perhaps if you continually raised the does you might retain some level of effectiveness for a period of time, but IMO the adverse effects are not worth it. Long-term use is really not recommended due to the adverse psychological and physical effects, drastic decrease in effectiveness and because benzodiazepines cause tolerance, physical dependence, and, upon cessation of use after long term use, severe withdrawal symptoms.

Aside from the physical dependence/withdrawal aspects, the long-term use of benzodiazepines generally causes a deterioration in physical and mental health that increases with time. The known adverse effects can include: cognitive impairment, affective and behavioural problems, feelings of turmoil, difficulty in thinking constructively, loss of sex-drive, agoraphobia, social phobia, an increase in anxiety, an increase in depression, loss of interest in life, an altered perception of self, environment and relationships, or an inability to experience/express feelings.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

i think it is still disputed as to whether benzos cause long term cognitive damage or not.

I think the only thing that is disputed is whether or not the damage lasts for a long time after you stop taking them. If you take them long-term you will have adverse effects while you are taking them and for a period of time while are withdrawing from them. Researchers just aren't in agreement yet as to whether the cognitive changes last even after a person has stopped taking benzos (and completed withdrawal if they were dependent). There just hasn't been enough research yet on that aspect.

 

[ErgicMergic]

Coming from someone who never abused their 5mg (and later 10mg) BID/TID Valium script, and used his 0.5mg Xanax script only for panic attacks in 0.25mg doses, benzodiazepine therapy will lose effectiveness at the 3-4 month mark, and become almost useless at the same dosage the 5-6 month mark.

Rather, you will be physically dependent on benzos, with interdose withdrawal and a simple returning to regular, pre-benzo levels of anxiety upon dosing your benzos. Eventually, even those dosages will not be enough, and you will be caught in periods of severe anxiety and panic between doses, and not-so-bad-but-still-fucking-bad levels of anxiety upon dosing your benzos.

Benzos are meant for short term use only (2-4 weeks), any longer and they lose effectiveness and your body and brain becomes heavily dependent. Alleged cognitive impairments are believed to be completely reversible if your benzo therapy lasts 6 months or less.

 

[gaktattack]

For some people they can stay at the same dose for years and years and it is still effective.

Don't you think it is possible that the people who it works for are just experiencing a placebo effect, and that their symptoms of anxiety are not gone from the sedative quality of the drug, but just the linus blanket of taking any drug at all?

Benzos are meant for short term use only (2-4 weeks), any longer and they lose effectiveness and your body and brain becomes heavily dependent. Alleged cognitive impairments are believed to be completely reversible if your benzo therapy lasts 6 months or less.

I realize that they are merely hoping that the damage isn't permanent and that the brain can overcome the destruction. For me, all of the evidence is just damning for the whole class of drugs at this point. I think that the dangers of overdose from barbiturates are more desirable than the broccoli cutting of benzos.

 

[RobotRipping]

I think the only thing that is disputed is whether or not the damage lasts for a long time after you stop taking them.

yes that is what i meant

Don't you think it is possible that the people who it works for are just experiencing a placebo effect, and that their symptoms of anxiety are not gone from the sedative quality of the drug, but just the linus blanket of taking any drug at all?

maybe, i remembering tapering off valium and even 1mg would magically hold me but still placebo loses its effectiveness pretty quickly and the withdrawal is unmistakable. There are a number of BL posters who say they can/have stayed at the same dose for years effectively managing their anxiety. I don't think it is so clear cut that benzos are terrible for you at a daily therapeutic dose.

 

[gaktattack]

yes that is what i meant
maybe, i remembering tapering off valium and even 1mg would magically hold me

At that low of a dose, would say, having a beer make your symptoms go away? BTW, how are you treating your anxiety now?

 

[manicmama]

I have been on clonazepam 0.5mg up to 4x a day AS NEEDED for anxiety and racing thoughts for 2 years. I have only ever abused my prescription twice in that time, as in used it other than as prescribed, and that was one time 2mg and another 3mg, all at once to help me sleep after a comedown from amps and nothing else to hand. I don't like using like this as the time it takes to get to sleep and the effects next day put me off.
I don't take it anywhere near everyday, a 2 week script lasts 4 months give or take. That's because I only use it when I really feel I'm not coping at all, anxiety/racing thoughts are preventing me from functioning.
It's worked for me long term in this intermittent manner.
But I think using a benzo everyday is almost certainly at some point lead to tolerance and addiction.

 

[qwe]

Is it worth it to take a benzo long-term if the dose is kept reasonably low?

no. the most i could see, while retaining therapeutic effects, is say a 1-2 month course once per year max. that would have helped me, but my doctor prescribed kpin long term, it's been almost 6 years now.

Will there be eventually simply no relief whatsoever from this dose, or will it just be a lot weaker?

mixed. paradoxical effects will eventually show up (for me, it took about 3-5 years). sometimes they will help, sometimes you'll be basically baseline, sometimes you'll have worse anxiety than you would otherwise.

Basically, I'm asking if benzodiazepines are a complete sham--simply create addiction--or if they indefinitely work in a therapeutic way once any "euphoria" or what have you passes in several months.

they're not a sham, they work. doctors just didn't know they stop working after a certain period of time.

Long-term, barring any continued abuse, might it work?

no. even taking the same amount every day for years, paradoxical effects develop. if you do mis-use it (take high amounts, try to cold turkey due to running out, etc) paradoxical effects will come quicker. the withdrawal its rather damaging to the psyche...

Could one simply be on it for life in the same way as heroin addicts in the United Kingdom are given their fix into eternity?

sure. i think a lot of people are in this boat, basically they are on benzo "maintenance". many of them might think the benzo is working, but it's placebo. many of the doctors might think it's working, too. i don't think the health care system really knows what it's doing with psychological illness.

many of these people are being switched to gabapentin, a "non addictive" "anxiolytic".

i'm confident that its "addictiveness" and withdrawal will be shown to be at least comparable (if not at the same intensity) to benzo dependence.

it often increases anxiety for me, and has other weird side effects, and i have only used it for a couple months, these aren't paradoxical effects. it's just a shitty drug for many people with anxiety. i feel like doctors are on just as much of a search for a "soma" for patients, as us users are on a search for our individual "soma"...

 

[Hiltoniano]

^ I assume you use soma in the real sense of the word, the drug that Alexander shulgin speaks of.... The drug that fixes everything with no adverse affects. The wonder drug. If only we could find it so I could stop my own endless search.

All this assuming you weren't speaking of pharma soma (carisoprodol) 8)

 

[Alex000]

I think benzos are unfairly demonized by many, but at the same taken far too lightly by others. Benzos are serious drugs, and will cause very strong dependence if dosed chronically. However, I think that benzos can be quite useful for long periods of time even when dosed chronically. Likely, the dose will have to be increased to an extent over time, but they can provide benefit. I think in the beginning of chronic dosing of a benzo, the individual is disinhibited and relaxed enough to overcome a lot of his anxieties/panic, which then leads to more effective "coping skills" for dealing with anxiety and good result. Continuing the benzo after this period is often beneficial to avoid benzo wd's immediately after the individual has improved so much. It all depends on the person. I do think, though, that the GABAergic effect of benzos can still help with anxiety even after years of being on benzos even with tolerance. I will say that I think benzos improved my anxiety and I have been on them for 1.5 years, with just a few periods of short, forced abstinence. I have upped the dose 3 x the initial daily dose, and added a nighttime benzo on top of that, but I still think they can help longterm. The term "bandaids" in reference for benzos is just silly, they are very helpful if used properly.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Well then I'm certainly caught in a quandary because my doctor told me to take it and he's supposed to be the best psychiatrist in town. I don't quite know whether to follow his advice or not.

I think he may want me to keep seeing him (reason not to be elaborated upon) so might be trying to addict me to a benzodiazepine (xanax .25mg twice a day) but this could also be a delusion of mine as I'm bi-polar. I know he's really good at what he does. I hope someone responds soon...

Maybe I'll just go for Valerian tonight.

Taking 50+ grams of Valerian a day for eight days gave me legitimate withdrawal; I could sleep due to another drug I was taking but still I sweat like a motherfucker, have trouble breathing, wake very easily, my mind sometimes gets really scared, and other things. What to do!? If I take the stuff as prescribed for even a few days I could be set back a few weeks at least, and I need to get well soon.

My problem is I can't gel with people and am basically love-shy to the extreme so I can't even go out in public because I become super-sensitive and have all of these delusional thoughts about what people are saying.

 

[Alex000]

Taking 0.25 mg Xanax twice daily won't control round-the-clock anxiety, and could lead to problems if dosed daily. My advice would be to see another psychiatrist if that is his intention (round-the-clock anxiety control), or use the Xanax on an as needed basis. Or, suggest Klonopin.

 

[Condumbpope]

When I use benzos I usually take way less than therapeutic doses.

.25 clonazepam / day for two weeks, then start on 1mg valium /day slowly tapering that to .8 .6 .5. .4 .2 .1 over the course of two weeks... Then I'm finished that course and abstain from them for 3+ months.

I never take benzos for longer than a month at a time, and I always use ones with long half-lives to avoid inter dose withdrawal and addictive re dosing behaviors. They are a very temporary solution, I am 100% positive long-term benzo use can permanently cause anxiety to become worse.

 

[Hiltoniano]

^curious, how do you measure Valium in the .1mg range? Isn't it sold in tablet form, with the smallest dose being 5mg. I would see much difficulty in measuring less than a mg because of binders and fillers in the pill. I mean you could theoretically break it down and separate into 50 piles I suppose....

 

[Condumbpope]

mg scales are readily available on amazon and I don't know if we're supposed to discuss teks here?

 

[Pagey]

Not a good idea to use benzos long-term. I used them without going over my prescription for 4 or 5 months and I could barely think during that time, even though my dose wasn't even that high. It was like I had a permanent cloud over my brain, and it got worse and worse with time. Also, I eventually became tolerant to my dose, which led to my multiplying it by like, 15, over a couple months, which led to an awful addiction, etc. etc.
I don't really think it's possible to use daily without eventually becoming tolerant and having to up the dose to get any effect whatsoever (and I don't really see why you'd continue using them if you're not getting any effect from them)
So no, it's not a good idea to be on benzos for life, and I highly doubt any doctor would prescribe them for that long, they really do turn you into a vegetable in the long-run (that expression exists in english right? or is it just in french? haha...i meant that they make you stupid anyway)
(btw, never experienced any euphoria on benzos)

 

[Hiltoniano]

I was just wondering, I am well aware of mg scales and their availability. But I was under the impression it would only be effective if u were working with pure Valium powder not the pill form commonly found.