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Benzos Benzo withdrawl , hi there

M

Morry27

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
14
Hi,

Been on a benzo taper for a while now and looking for advice.

Was taking around 30-40mg each day at the weekend so 70 -80 mg , had no problems at first but started to have a negative effect on my mental and physical wellbeing, I also take prescribed anti-depressants, long term issue and that medication is working ok.
Came clean with Doc about the valium which wasn't prescribed and he was very supportive about me wanting to stop, so he put me on a (prescribed)taper starting at 10 mg per day, first couple of drops were too big and I thought i was losing my mind, complete out of body experience and ended up with panic attacks. So agreed with Doc to slow things down, roughly 1mg per fortnight and I seemed to cope ok for a while and generally feeling better, I dont drink much maybe 2 or 3 drinks friday and saturday nights.
Now at 1 mg and hoping the end of this is not too far away, however the past week I have had a lot of anxiety, sweating, feeling distant, all typical withdrawal symptoms, like I have taken a step back !

Couple of questions;

is it normal to have difficulty towards the end of a taper, at this low dose ?

i dont drink much but should I cut it out altogether ?what about caffeine ? I have 4 cups a day and have read it doesn't help anxiety

Any advice very much appreciated

Morry
 
I sadly do have lots of experience. My best advice would be (at least if you're still at the sweating, jittering stage):

1. Your body starts sweating and relising toxins like mad, making you feel grimy all the time, especially your itchy, grimy scalp. And nothing will make you feel worse than laying wallowing in your own dirt during benzo WD. Keeping yourself clean will make you feel SO much better.

After the first night of withdrawal your bedsheets will already be too dirty to sleep comfortably in, so the first thing you need to do is change your bedsheets and get into a habit of bathing or showering 2-3 times a day. You won't even feel clean very long at the worst of it, just a few hours, but you'll feel so much better clean and the showers or baths will make you sweat and release toxins. Drying yourself off will also remove toxins and you'll continue sweating for a while releasing toxins through your skin when you're still warm.

You'd be amazed how much of an improvement just this will make. There seems to be some decrease of the withrawal symptomps for a while, as well, like decrease in heart-rate and blood pressure, so you can rest better for a while.

2. Food and Drink. Superimportant and can literally cut your withdrawal in half if you're good with it. Even if you don't feel like any, get as much of the healthiest and most nourishing food into you as you can. Liquids are easier to digest, so whole milk, organic fruit juice, or even better freshly squeezed fruit or vegetable juice.

You really need the water and nutrients for repair and to maintain electrolyte mbalance, etc. Tap water isn't so healthy, so you can skip that, the healthiest water comes up filtered through fruits and vegetables. At least this has really made a great difference for me.

One time I was still before the peak of WD and felt pretty shitty, but then I forced myself to drink a litre of organic Orange juice and whole milk, and very soon started to feel noticably better. It seemed like I was past my peak, my organs started sucking the water into them again so I didn't feel so bloated in the extremeties, etc. and in 12 hours I was basically okay. So that might have helped to avoid a really bad peak.

3. Exercise. You're body is desperate to release toxins and it does so much easier by moving around and breathing hard and deep. The trouble is sith benzo WD you tend to be so weak you can't evenstand the thought to get out of bed.

Then Yoga is a great option, if you can get yourself through a whole Yoga schedule with 10 poses or so. It's very detoxifying, puts pressure on the different organs, squeezes the cells, moves the blood around your body, and makes you breathe really hard and deep and release a lot of toxins through your breath.

If you can't even bare the thought of that you can just lie rattling in your bed like you have the urge to. Just move your legs and shoulders as forcefully as you can. You will notice it will make you feel better and you will have great problems lying still anyway. But a full Yoga session solves a lot of that so you can get some better rest.

4. Supplements. Valerian root I know for sure is very effective if you take the right amount at the right time. At least 2-3 grams in capsule form and lasts about 5-6 hours. It takes the sting out of the WD and calms all the physical symptomps and most of the psychological ones, apart from some irritation and depression. Feels kind of like a shitty benzo, or like you haven't taken enough. Maybe there would be a right amount if you go high enough. Also doesn't seem to work as well taken at the peak, but there might be a dose that could calm even that. Anyway, it's a lifesaver, both emotionally and physically, and you shouldn't even think of getting addicted to benzos without stocking up on it.

There are also other sedative herbs out there, like Hops is meant to be even more sedative, and it helped me during my Lyrica withdrawal. Valium is actually based on Valerian, though. But I'm sure there are several herbs that can help if you find your way to them.

Magnesium. At first I was all for it, with the way it both calms wown the nervous system and controls muscle cramps, and it does immediately make you feel better in large doses. The problem is all the laxative added which makes it useless for the purpose. It leads to extreme diare which makes you unable to hold any food or liquid down, and seems to make the situation way worse and last a lot longer.

5. Finally, this is a bit of a gamble. I've had times where it's saved me from going into real WD, where I've been drinking for a few days, taken Valerian pills for a few days, suffered a bit for a day, and that was it. But I've also had times that was basically hell and it turned out to be very dangerous. The dehydration and added toxins doesn't help, and there's a Gaba-backlash when you start sobering up when there's basically no Gaba in your body and you're in a very critical condition.

This can lead to real scary spasms where you lay awake feeling you're going to seize at any minute. I've actually found it's better to keep yourself awale all night and get lots of nourishing fluid in you. Otherwise, if you sleep, you'll just wake up with the hangover/benzo withdrawal from hell. It will be really bad if you fall asleep in that state, and you can't take more alcohol to make you feel better when you wake up. You can only drink so much in that state, and will already start sobering up before you're ready to go to bed, and soon feel like hell again.

So it's really best to stay away from alcohol. One night with a moderate amount of drinks (3-4) can turn out okay. Alcohol on benzo withdrawal ia always a bit of a gamble though.
 
Thank you for taking the time to reply

This is my first experience so I didnt really know what to expect, you certainly seem to have found out the hard way, hope you are healing now.

Regarding exercise I was an avid weightlifter but the benzos have suppressed my nervous system somewhat and heavy lifting is out of the question for the timebeing, light exercise and saunas do seem to improve my mood though.
Interesting about fluid replacement through fruit and I confess I dont eat enough of this, time to stock up
The sweats are not profuse but they are annoying, I get the feeling I am constantly coming down with an illness, yet I know this isnt the case!
I have made good progress I think but this last little hurdle seems to be a tough one. I suppose I thought it would only get easier, thats three weeks I have been down to 1mg and I want to drop but dont feel quite ready, when I do would you think a half mg would be too much, its 50% !!

thank you again
 
Nothing too much, but you might be hit with a shitty mood and discomfort for a few days as the last of it is leaving your body. Try taking Valerian for a few days and do all the healthy things. Saunas sound great. But even when you come off the Valerian you might have to go through a shitty day or two, as it mimics benzos quite well, but it's not much and then it's over.
 
Id like to add that gabapentin and pregabalin do help with the most distressing symptoms (especially the pregabalin) and it doesnt seem to set back the WD, maybe due to difference in mechanism of action.
Just remember to keep doses sensible and dont take them for too long as the WD from longterm/high dose use is almost as bad as benzo WD, though if your desperate their a great rescue med.
 
I just tapered off a nasty benzo habit. Took em for 4 years, prescribed and recreational. Towards the end I was getting 60 mg of valium from my psych on top of like 4 mg of xanax or klonopin a day. Twas bad...

I got completely off of them about 2 months ago. I did a taper, obviously, but what I found most surprising for me was that the initial switch to diazepam from more potent benzos was the hard part for me. I actually jumped off at 5 mg of valium BID to zero. I don't suggest doing that without talking to your doctor, but I felt that by that point I had "equalized" and didn't wanna to prolong the w/d even more.

But here's the real reason why I posted: although it gets better each day, the w/d last a long while. I still am having troubles sleeping and I grind the hell out of my teeth, but one medication has really, really helped: baclofen. I am taking 20 mg TID (I really just take it on a PRN basis--some days 60 mg, some days zero). It not only stops my teeth grinding and helps with the anxiety, it actually cuts the cravings for me. It's approved for alcohol dependence...I guess benzos working on GABA *might* mean there's some pharmacological basis for why it it helps with benzos as well. But really, try getting a script for that. Another plus is that they're not really recreational---you'll read some reports saying it is but I don't agree, personally. I have a pretty nasty drug abuse history but do not abuse these pills whatsoever, which is obviously good cause I'm in recovery heh.

Best of luck man. Just two months off of benzos and I seriously feel like a new person. My depression has improved SUBSTANTIALLY, my mood is stable. Hope the same for you
 
Yeah man tapers do get harder towards the end, your body is still gagging for that tiny amount. But at the end of the day you have more or less cracked it. There is a date on the near future where you will feel 100% better, it can not be stopped so long as you keep going. Sounds to me like you have done well, so don't fuck it up as you will kick yourself having got this far ! :) It's the final hurdle of a long race, but the finish line is there for you.
 
Thanks , just want this shit over with, real jittery and anxious for a week now, hopefully the end is in sight !:). Good to know the experiences of others who have gone through it.
 
I have heard klonopin can be a real bitch ! This wd just feels like its going on for ever, can wait till I feel better ;)
 
Another question you may be able to help with, I have been on 1mg for three weeks but its only the past few days I have been feeling lousy, is this common ?
 
Getting off a major benzo habit is one of the most difficult things a human being can face. No matter how bad things get, just remember that they will eventually improve. The frustrating part is that everyone heals at a different rate, so you can never know how long it is going to take.
 
Morry27 said:
Another question you may be able to help with, I have been on 1mg for three weeks but its only the past few days I have been feeling lousy, is this common ?
Click to expand...

Yes I'd say it is common, your body often reacts later than you think to a drop, it just ebbs and flows, good days bad days. But ou just have to go with it and always remember that if it feels tough, that is a good sign of progress. Your body will get the message so long as you keep with the same dose. Just don't panic about things it's hard though as it gets inside your head and makes it feel more intense than it actually is. Like it - your brain - is good at bullshitting you, it is trying to talk you into doing more, so stick with the 'fuck you' attitude towards the whole thing. But for sure things will improve over time, like I said nothing can stop that so long as you stick to your planned taper.
 
First of all most of this is not true. Equivalency tables mean nothing, the Ashton method is a silly route to take, benzo's do have withdrawals and they are easy to come off unless you hve abused them. If anyone reading this is scared because of what they read on the internet, my advice is do not read the internet.
So, as with all things, if you have been using a chemical like the chemicals in benzo's to mask your anxiety then it depends how you got your anxiety to whether you will experience withdrawals and how bad, also depends on your situation at the time. If you have abused benzo's and you dont need them for anxiety then you shouldnt have taken them in the first place but if you did it is not a big problem unless you spend your days on blogs and reading on the internet.
Benzo's are incredible drugs, if you have some stress issues and need them for 2-4 weeks then you will experience no withdrawals at all, if you do then there is some underlying anxiety which requires you to combat it with CBT or with SSRI's, and SSRI's will be easy to taper when the time is right.
YOu do not taper by lowering the dose, it makes no sense, if your tolerant on 2mg/day on Xanax for example, its extremely rare your going to get a seizure withdrawing and it doesnt matter how long you've been on it.
If you have abused them and are at over 4mg/day then you need to taper first but you can taper quickly to 4mg/day.
Equivalency charts, do not look at them, they mean nothing. 5mg of Klonopin is not the same as 100mg of Diazepam, its completely wrong.
This is how you taper:
Firstly, you do not in any way do it when you are in a stressful period of your life if you have been using them for longer than 4 weeks, wait until a quieter time, if the doctors wont prescribe you and want you to go through hell instead, then get another doctor.
When you are in a quieter period (ie take a month off work and blame it on some other reason), you do not taper down your dose unless your on something ridiculous. instead you use a time method and a GABA drug. If for example you took a 0.5mg xanax at 6am, 12pm and 6pm, then you took 1.5mg a day for a year. You then take the same schedule once every two days for 3 months, then once every three days for 3 months and then your done. Tapering your dose doesnt work, you kep it constant in your system so as your tapering, your still building a tolerance (especially if you have a strong liver) and living with worse withdrawals as you taper.
Remember, the internet is the worst place for advice, it is filled with people who have bad experiences, the people who dont have bad experiences (99% of the population) dont go to a forum for help with other people also experiencing bad experiences.
If you take amphetimines, drink heavily etc whilst tapering, then forget it, and that doesnt mean you cant have a beer or two.
No one fails tapering if its done correctly, so the time related formula is what you want and on top of that take a gabapentin (900mg per dose up to 2 times a day always works) or a lyrica when you get that feeling, distract yourself and excercise. if you get a tingly feeling in your hands and feet then its called hyperventilating, take a brown paper bag and breath in and out into it 10 times or so.
Is tapering off benzo's harder than heroin? no. Harder then alchohol? no. But you have to do it properly and you have to discourage these people giving opinions about their own thoughts. Taper properly, be safe!
 
yes it's very normal to have trouble at the end of a taper, in fact that's the time you'll probably most feel the withdrawal. Caffeine definitely does not help, cut it out as much as you can and alcohol will just worsen things as well. Cut both caffeine and alcohol out and you'll feel better guaranteed. In terms of what you can do to make things better, try valerian root or valeric acid it may help, may not, get exercise and eat healthy, the rest will get better in time. I found mindfulness therapy to help the most out of all the things i've tried.

good luck, it's a tough thing to get out of.

i'd avoid gabapentin or lyrica or other gabaergics - they may help but can also create a new addiction/dependency, may not be worth the risk, it's variable though.
 
gphoppy said:
First of all most of this is not true. Equivalency tables mean nothing, the Ashton method is a silly route to take, benzo's do have withdrawals and they are easy to come off unless you hve abused them. If anyone reading this is scared because of what they read on the internet, my advice is do not read the internet.
So, as with all things, if you have been using a chemical like the chemicals in benzo's to mask your anxiety then it depends how you got your anxiety to whether you will experience withdrawals and how bad, also depends on your situation at the time. If you have abused benzo's and you dont need them for anxiety then you shouldnt have taken them in the first place but if you did it is not a big problem unless you spend your days on blogs and reading on the internet.
Benzo's are incredible drugs, if you have some stress issues and need them for 2-4 weeks then you will experience no withdrawals at all, if you do then there is some underlying anxiety which requires you to combat it with CBT or with SSRI's, and SSRI's will be easy to taper when the time is right.
YOu do not taper by lowering the dose, it makes no sense, if your tolerant on 2mg/day on Xanax for example, its extremely rare your going to get a seizure withdrawing and it doesnt matter how long you've been on it.
If you have abused them and are at over 4mg/day then you need to taper first but you can taper quickly to 4mg/day.
Equivalency charts, do not look at them, they mean nothing. 5mg of Klonopin is not the same as 100mg of Diazepam, its completely wrong.
This is how you taper:
Firstly, you do not in any way do it when you are in a stressful period of your life if you have been using them for longer than 4 weeks, wait until a quieter time, if the doctors wont prescribe you and want you to go through hell instead, then get another doctor.
When you are in a quieter period (ie take a month off work and blame it on some other reason), you do not taper down your dose unless your on something ridiculous. instead you use a time method and a GABA drug. If for example you took a 0.5mg xanax at 6am, 12pm and 6pm, then you took 1.5mg a day for a year. You then take the same schedule once every two days for 3 months, then once every three days for 3 months and then your done. Tapering your dose doesnt work, you kep it constant in your system so as your tapering, your still building a tolerance (especially if you have a strong liver) and living with worse withdrawals as you taper.
Remember, the internet is the worst place for advice, it is filled with people who have bad experiences, the people who dont have bad experiences (99% of the population) dont go to a forum for help with other people also experiencing bad experiences.
If you take amphetimines, drink heavily etc whilst tapering, then forget it, and that doesnt mean you cant have a beer or two.
No one fails tapering if its done correctly, so the time related formula is what you want and on top of that take a gabapentin (900mg per dose up to 2 times a day always works) or a lyrica when you get that feeling, distract yourself and excercise. if you get a tingly feeling in your hands and feet then its called hyperventilating, take a brown paper bag and breath in and out into it 10 times or so.
Is tapering off benzo's harder than heroin? no. Harder then alchohol? no. But you have to do it properly and you have to discourage these people giving opinions about their own thoughts. Taper properly, be safe!
Click to expand...

sorry but i dont agree -having just left one of if not the best rehabs in the country (uk) i can chime in and say the benzo detox is far worse. i enjoyed the 1st week opiate detox in comparison and that was hell -worse opiate cluck i have done in 12 years. its the amount of time the benzo cluck takes that makes it hard. diazepam takes 1000 hours for your body to eliminate it fully. i turned up with every drug in my system they test for plus more and the benzo bit was the hardest -not the most intense but the time factor more so. lyrica made it worse for me but you may fair better. easiest way is to swap to the shortest acting benzo you can get and taper on that. dont mean to put you off but just be prepared to be in it for the long haul -you cant abuse your body and expect to not pay the piper. good luck mate -you can do it trust.
 
Thanks, I appreciate the advice, I keep telling myself every time I feel like this its a sign my body and mind are healing
 
Last edited:
Sorry, I got lost in your post, was it directed at me ? Saying not to take benzos is wise advice but that doesnt really help me, I came here to get the experience of others, not a lecture.
I do agree that there are a lot of horror stories and bullshit on the internet that just leads to confusion. i am in the latter stages of a taper, so what exactly is your advice ?
 
I would ignore that posters advice OP (or at least most of it), your already taperring and doing well so why screw up your taper schedule?lol
The 'brown paper bag' method for controlling breathing during hyper-ventilation is out-dated as well and not advised. Infact there are alot of very effeective breathing exercises that are simple to learn, just give it a google. Good luck for the remainder of your WD.
 
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