Benzos Benzo withdrawal - and Suboxone withdrawal?

[Supeudol]

I have been through oxycodone withdrawal quite a bit, and had a 600mg/day oxycodone habit (oral use only). Detoxed and was put on Suboxone, gradually upto 16mgs. Was doing very well for 6 months, and then I started to get extra benzos writtten. (I was also on a taper with clonazepam at the same time). But then I started also writing my own scripts for flurazepam, bromazepam, and Lorazepam. So, I finally decided to get some help and I am a rehab center right now, but a week before I got here, I got straight cut off Suboxone 16mgs. (because my psychiatrist found out about all my benzo use. I have been off and on benzo's since I was about 17 or 18 yrs old and am now 23 years old. Ouch I never knew that benzo withdrawal is so fucking brutal, here they barely give you enough diazepam (which is the fucking weakest benzo IMO.) I thought they had Suboxone out here, but they don't have the proper protocols in place yet. Anyways, I saw the psychiatrist here, and also the doctor. I've been off benzo's for almost 3 weeks now and I am still not feeling very good, I try and get running on the treadmill as much as I can and that helps a bit.. but I have been having diahrea pretty much everyday - also anxiety is through the roof. Doctor dropped my Paxil from 60mg, down to 40mg, and now down to 20mg, because he told me that too much Paxil can actually cause Anxiety, and I have been on and off Paxil since I was about 17 yrs old. I have tried Cipralex (Lexapro), and it did fuck all for my anxiety. I don't even know if the Paxil is doing anything at all anymore because I was masking it with like 12mg of Lorazepam a day. 8) and, my tolerance to benzodiazepines is through the fucking roof. Alprazolam is my favourite, but haven't used that for awhile.

- So here they don't have Suboxone, so I am not sure if I am still in Sub w/d as well? It will be 3 weeks on Monday. Currently I am on 20mg Propanalol 2x daily, every 8hrs here for rapid heart rate. But it doesn't help much. I am also on Lyrica 300mg 2x daily (morning and night) as well as 100mg Trazodone for sleep. I have been having to take Loperamide (Imodium) every day.
Sorry I am kind of jumping all over here, but can anyone answer some questions? Like after 3 weeks of being cut off Suboxone, could this still be causing symptoms? Although after I had been cut off the Sub, I started supplementing with Oxy's again to keep the w/ds at bay, and was also using Flurazepam, bromazepam, and Lorazepam pretty heavily for the past 2 months, before that I was only on 4mg clonazepam a day, and tapered down to 1mg of clonazepam.

but in my opinion, benzo withdrawal is FAR worse that opioid withdrawal.

My psychiatrist wants to put me on Anafranil, an older trycyclic antidepressant, but I am not sure if I want to go on it. I have severe GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) and used to get severe panic attacks. Sorry for the long post, my apologies, but anyone have any information for me, or anything that could help me out? I am in a rehab center right now in British Columbia, Canada.

Thanks all.

 

[DexterMeth]

Ouch, you're in quite a bind. Look at it this way, the very worse time in your whole life is definately going to be now, so at least you're getting it over with. I detoxed off 16mg a day clonazepam a number of months ago, but only got to 0mg about 2 weeks ago (I too abused benzos my whole teenage and adult life). I'm still going through the withdrawals but it gets, as insain as it is now, insainly better (compaired to that) as time goes on. The benzos really percilate through your body and store deep down/all over, even in the bones I've heard, but especially the fat (and the brain..). When I started at 0mg it was just a couple days after I stopped using opiates, it was horrible. The shits you're getting right now are from benzo withdrawal. Have you tried "lopressor" for the rapid heart beat? That should completely eliminate it, and it's not a drub of abuse.

Buspar might actually be something that would work for you, instead of SSRIs like Paxil. Depending on the person (obviously) it can work wonders for GAD. It's prescribed quite frequently for benzo withdrawals, if you have a decent doctor, when things like hydroxyzine don't help. Further use of any gaganergic drugs seems really backwards to me. I would get off the lyrica, as that might just make your situation worse in the end.

Here's some links, really easy to find on Google, so take your own shot at it even:
*http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm (the ashton manual, this is essential reading)
*http://benzowithdrawal.com/forum/

I could talk about this subject for a long time, I'm just not going to. If you want any futher advice, want to compare things, etc, just PM me.

About the opiod factor, you said you were supplimenting with oxycodone after the buprenorphine...so how long and much? This is obviously going to be a factor and you know this. The withdrawal from full agonists (like oxycodone) are not going last as long as a partial agonist/antogonist buprenorphine, but they are generally going to be more severe. You already stated though you have a lot of experience fucking about with oxycodone, the bupe should be long gone, depending on your weight/metabolism. There might be some residual withdrawal effects though lasting up to a few weeks even, yes, but nothing extreme..mostly sleep distrubances and mild gastrointestinal issues. Other people can fill in the blanks and correct me.

 

[Supeudol]

Thanks for the reply.

I was only using oxycodone for about two weeks and about 80mg-160mg/daily after I got cut off Suboxone. But I had basically a 5-6 year oxycodone habit, that progressed up to 600mg/daily in the last 6 months before I went to rehab for the first time.

About the benzo's, I wasn't abusing them when I was FIRST prescribed them at age 17-18. The benzo use got worse in my 20's. (I am now 23, almost 24.) But basically I just was getting Diazepam and Clonidine here ONLY for the first 4 days, and each day they would only give me like 20mg of Diazepam, and then the dosing went down to 10mg after two days, and each day it was dosed further apart in between doses. I've been on Lyrica for like 3 years, and it has some anxiolytic properties to it, and I have been on the same dose of Lyrica for quite some time now. Shouldn't the worse of the "physical" part of benzo withdrawal be over now? Sometimes I get chest pains as well. I saw a cardiologist back when I was 16, and he said my heart was totally fine, and that I was just a very anxious "high strung" person.

I refuse to go on ANY antipsychotics. Haven't heard of "lopressor", it must be another beta blocker? I'll look that up.

Anyone else chime in?

Thanks very much again.

 

[Pegasus]

Regarding the benzos: take your time on the taper, man. It won't be too unpleasant if you don't allow it to get that way. If you feel uncomfortable at any point in your taper, stay at that level until you're totally ready to go down further. Once you get to a low enough dose to skip days in between, I highly suggest that you do so, and to do gradually more days at a time until you're at like maybe 4 days between. This is going to be the biggest drop of them all: going from daily dosing to not daily dosing. If you skip days instead of just getting to a low level and dropping off completely, you make this transition much more gradual, though. I have tapered off benzos a few times and I felt that this strategy was unbelievably effective.

Regarding the opiates: I have also been in the position where I had to taper off both opiates and benzos at the same time, and what I did was do one before the other. I chose opiates to go first, because I felt that the benzos could help with the opiate taper, but the opiates would not really help with the benzo taper. You can obviously lower both doses at the same time, but I recommend doing the drop off at different times. Another thing to keep in mind is that these drugs potentate each other, so when you lower the dose of one drug, you are actually getting less effects from both (due to the synergy). I had to go very slow through the process for this very reason... certainly slower than I would have liked. It can be done, though... keep your will strong, and post here if you have any more questions. Good luck!

 

[Supeudol]

Thanks Bollweevill for the reply. The thing is, is that I am in a rehab center, and they won't prescribe any addictive medications here. I'm from Alberta, but currently in British Columbia, Canada. I've already been off the benzo's for *almost* 3 weeks. I doubt that the psychiatrist would want to put me back on any benzo. I paid $16,000 for this and was told that they use Suboxone here, but the person got the wrong information. So when I got here, I was quite pissed at that .

Its the rapid heart rate, the chills, sweats, and diahrea thats really bothering me. Even with only 20mg propananol 2x daily.

 

[DexterMeth]

EDIT - A good chunck of your problems should subside once you get back on suboxone. Really try to work at it this time around. Don't look at the suboxone as "not as good as X", but more like, "This stuff is not good enough to kill myself with, but it's good enough to not use another opiate." Oh it's far from perfect, but it works, when you try....hard. (enough)
-Don't get back on bezos. You are only making shit worse by using benzos any further. You're not much younger than me, you'll eventually realize this. Read the Ashton manual in the link I posted. You don't have anything else to do and you'll learn some really valuable things. -----EDIT over

Buspar is not an anti-psychotic. "Buspirone is a psychotropic drug with anxiolytic properties which belongs chemically to the class of compounds known as the azaspirodecanediones.

Buspirone shares some of the properties of the benzodiazepines and the neuroleptics, as well as demonstrating other pharmacological action. It attenuates punishment suppressed behavior in animals and exerts a taming effect, but is devoid of anticonvulsant and muscle relaxant properties and does not bind to the benzodiazepine/GABA receptor complex. Buspirone affects a variety of dopamine mediated biochemical and behavioral events, but is free of cataleptic activity. Buspirone has an affinity for brain D(2)-dopamine receptors, where it acts as an antagonist and agonist, and for the 5-HT(1A) receptors, where it acts as an agonist. Buspirone does not block the neuronal reuptake of monoamines and, on chronic administration, it does not lead to changes in receptor density in the models investigated. However, the mechanism of action of buspirone remains to be fully elucidated. " -http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-b03.html
It's a very interesting drug. I am definately going to give it a try if I don't start methylphenidate or d-amp in the comming week.

What are the "worst part of the withdrawal symptoms"? Seriously I don't know which ones you think are the worst, because there are a lot unlike other drugs, and many of them can last up to a year or more. This isn't going to be easy for you man, nothing that's worthwhile is. The extreme shakiness, lack of sleep, electric shocks, and random sweat spots should be wrapping up. You're going to have to deal with random bouts of depersonalization/derealization with random bouts of desentization mixed with pure mania for a while. That's why you might want to consider trying something like buspar.

Why do you REFUSE to go on any anti-psychotics? Do you have a stimaticsm towards them because it means you're crazy? Do you think all of them give you nasty side effects? They're just a bunch of random drugs that happen to treat similar (yet an alarming awesome wide variety of) things. I'm not in any way smarter than you but I definately used to say the same thing about APs. You just have to research them very good and only try the ones that seem to fit the best. In this one instance I wouldn't take your doctor's opinion as the first. You want to see what hundreds/thousands of people say about each one. I'm not on any now btw, but I would be if I knew there was one that would help me for whatever. I don't need one right now though, and I don't think I ever did, I was undiagnosed with ADHD for far too long and misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder for years. I just thought math amps made me really regular, somehow forgot that during all my downer use and then I was in too deep. Do all APs kill your sex drive? No. Do they make you a zombie? No. It's like compairing cocaine to cannabis. The only similarity is that they both start with a C.

Yes lopressor is a beta-blocker. It's one that's been used for a long time, and especially by performers/musicians to curb stage fright.

 

[Supeudol]

DexterMeth: Thanks for posting back. I NEVER said that Buspar was an antipsychotic, I just refuse to go on them, that's all, but you are right - I need to research the AP's more. Anyways, I would go back on Suboxone in a SECOND if it was available here at this rehab facility. When I go back to my home city, if I need it, I can go back on it there, even though there is a damn waiting list.

I don't know if Buspar would be a good option for me, since it affects dopamine as well. But I guess it has worked for some people, but most people I see on here that post about Buspar say that it did fuck all for them, but everyone is different.

-- I just hope that some of these physical withdrawal symptoms subside soon
I go from getting goosebumps, with rapid heart rate because propanalol doesn't even cross the BBB. (Blood Brain Barrier). And I am also on the lowest dosage, and only twice daily. Ouch, Benzo withdrawal really SUCKS! I wish Canada was more up to date in fucking healthcare. Like fuck we are brutal here.. Suboxone never came out in Canada until late late 2008.

Anyways, I appreciate all the posts back guys. I suffer from severe anxiety, and used to get huge panic attacks brought out by marijuana use, because MJ caused my first panic attack ever, even though I was a daily smoker for 2-3 years. But that could have been a certain strain that caused it.

I WAS on a pretty good taper with clonazepam back at home, until like I say about the last 2-3 months I started abusing benzo's heavily.

 

[DexterMeth]

Anxiety induced by cannabis is so damn common yet all the people that this happens to keep on smoking it. I quit smoking herb so long ago because of how bad it made me feel. I know people that are so preassured to fit in that they'll smoke it and trip out every time, I used to laugh but now I just feel bad for them. It's fucking sad.

Anyways, I'd tell you to drink some alcohol on the days when it's unbearbly bad but this is terrible advice as you now have a tendency to become an alcoholic more than any time in your life. To tell you the truth, I don't think I would of made it through the first 4 months of my taper without abusing GHB/GBL/1,4-BDO. I was drinking heavily on top of that. Jail/drug court made me eventually quit. I relapsed after I won the case but only for a short while. I can't explain it, I guess I just grew up. I went through the last 4mg and still on 0 for a few weeks now with nothing, although I'm back in bupe. Bupe definately helps. Why don't you set up an appointment for right when you get out? Why even wait?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I think most people who smoke weed enjoy the effects, and people who get anxiety from it don't smoke it that often.

 

[DexterMeth]

I love the effects of cannabis, but depending on the strain I get so strung out on it I can't even function. I start to even hallucinate and feel psychotic at the same time. It's more mild than tripping the fuck out on acid though, and subsides after less than half and hour or so, so I continued to smoke it daily for years. Most people like me end up sticking with it because for one reason or another they don't end up doing hard drugs.

 

[Supeudol]

Okay, thanks for the information guys. I guess I just have to "ride the wave" out of this. Fuck I hate living in Canada, especially for healthcare because its fucking really hard to find Suboxone doctors here, its a fucking joke really how bad are healthcare system really is here, and no, its NOT FREE at all. Suboxone never even came out here until late late 2008. Like what the fuck? 8)

I really wish I lived in France.. this sucks

 

[cptmorgan79]

benzos and subutex

im new here, not sure if im in the right spot but if anyone could help it would be appreciated. I am on 50 mg of methadone currently but its $14 a day I just got a job with insurance and we are slowly dropping my dose down to 35mg so i can switch to suboxone with my insurance is only $25 a month. The only thing im worried about is i am also prescribed 1mg alprazolam 3 times a day. is it safe to combine the 2? I think when i start the suboxone im gonna break the alprazalam in half the firsd week or 2 until i get to feelin normal again. If anyone has any advice please let me know, like i said, any info will be greately appreciated


The Cptn

 

[qwe]

that dose, especially since you are used to it, would be fine with suboxone. i mean it'd probably kill you easier with methadone than subox (benzos)

if you havent been taking the alprazolam more than half a year, i'd say definitely cut it in half every few weeks like that, just because once you use benzos long enough you get anxiety and some w/d during the periods between doses because your body will adapt to the drug so well (a rather unfortunate adaptation in this case). use as needed

if youve been using longer and if cutting down would cause too much disruption, no it won't cause a problem with subox

 

[oliphill]

Supeudol -

Sorry to bump up old thread, but just wondered how you were doing? And also one question.. you say you would "get back on Suboxone in a SECOND.." Why would you do that? After going through the withdrawal why get back on it? Just wondering.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

I'm willing to bet its because of PAWS.

I always tell myself "if I could only get through withdrawal I will never use again!!!"

Only to go through withdrawals, stay clean for 2 or 3 months then start using again because after 3 months I still don't feel normal yet.

Just my two cents.

 

[jivepepper]

Right now I'm tapering off clonopin that I have been on for only 6 month my average was averaging 1-2 mg's a day. Doctor is gone on vacation which I didn't know of, and they have no contingency plan for he's gone. The ER gave me 6, 1 mg pills, and said that is all they can give me. 72 hours worth, 96 hours ago. I'm down to one dose of clonopin. What should I expect of the next couple days?

Plus I have an opiate addiction, and average 250mgs of oxy a day. Been involved with opiate pain killers for about 3 years and 2.5 of those years have been daily. I have a chronic pain issue but learned to love my meds and started abusing. I've been suddenly cut off and have been nibbling on about 4-6 mgs of sub a day which helps a bit only 2 days so far.

I'm 43 and I have always had a substance abuse problem. I quit drinking daily in my mid 20's.
Stopped smoking cigs in my 30's. Had a 9 month stint with coke in my mid 30's and have smoked weed since I was teenager. Besides the pot all my life, and the booze in my 20's Plus the small stint with coke in my 30's. I was drug free until 3 years ago and now I feel I up against the biggest challenge of them all. I just want to be a good father/Grand father/Husband again, and get my life back. All I want to do is cry the last few days. Of course I'm very emotional right now.

I want off all of it!!! I do have about 10, .5 mg tabs of Ativan could this help me for bit?