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  • NSADD Moderators: tryptakid

bbb warehouse raided

I see how what I said could be ambiguous, my bad on that. What I meant by "By US law, it should..." is "if the law were applied as written, it would mean banning Wal-Mart from selling San Pedro just as surely as it would ban BBB from doing so and just as illegal as a dealer selling mescaline." I don't think banning any of those (including the dealer selling mescaline) is good, I was just talking about what the law seems to say now, which is that DMT and mescaline, or anything that contains DMT or mescaline, is Schedule I under the CSA.

My personal view is that prohibition of all drugs should be abolished and replaced with entirely harms reduction and public health focused policies - needle exchanges, information about basic safe use practices made widely available, preferable in public high school health curricula to replace the current DEA propaganda shpiel they teach in most states, etc. Any adult who is educated about known potential harms and chooses freely to ingest a drug anyway should be free to do so, at least in the privacy of their own homes. No outside entity, government or otherwise, has any legitimate reason to object to that.
 
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^ the last time I checked there weren't any plants listed specifically with DMT, mescaline, or even psilocybin/psilocin. Peyote & cannabis are specifically scheduled, as well as mescaline & cannabinoids (all of them, even the non-psychoactive ones, oddly enough). There's nothing about actual mushrooms, cacti (other than peyote), or the scores upon scores of things that contain DMT (including humans). Hence these things are legal to possess, sell, trade, etc. JWH is also unregulated and distinct enough from THC to not be covered by the Analogue Act, so if he gets a good attorney who can find some good experts on his side, he may well come out ok. However, given the likely makeup of a jury in kansas, the defense may have a pretty difficult time. I really hope things work out ok for this guy. He certainly doesn't belong in prison.
 
I don't understand why people keep bringing up the Walmart selling San Pedro idea. It's called selective prosecution. That's how the law works. Law enforcement can select who to arrest. They don't have to bother looking for every other person committing the same crime. They can let people they like break the law with impunity, and arrest those they dislike.
 
This is very sad... BUT...

I have heard that teachers at local school near BBB found K2 and other drugs from BBB on students.

I also heard they were selling extracted drugs on the side.

This is completely irresponsible!

THE ONLY THING ANYBODY SHOULD BUY, SELL OR TRADE IS LIVE PLANTS AND VIABLE SEEDS WHICH ARE NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION!
 
^ the last time I checked there weren't any plants listed specifically with DMT, mescaline, or even psilocybin/psilocin. Peyote & cannabis are specifically scheduled, as well as mescaline & cannabinoids (all of them, even the non-psychoactive ones, oddly enough). There's nothing about actual mushrooms, cacti (other than peyote), or the scores upon scores of things that contain DMT (including humans). Hence these things are legal to possess, sell, trade, etc. JWH is also unregulated and distinct enough from THC to not be covered by the Analogue Act, so if he gets a good attorney who can find some good experts on his side, he may well come out ok. However, given the likely makeup of a jury in kansas, the defense may have a pretty difficult time. I really hope things work out ok for this guy. He certainly doesn't belong in prison.

Your argument breaks down as soon as you say "actual mushrooms". Mushrooms aren't scheduled, only psilocybin and psilocin are. Anything containing any amount of psilocybin or psilocin, due to the wording of the statute, are considered to BE psilocybin or psilocin for the purposes of saying someone possessed a controlled substance. So mushrooms are therefore illegal too.

Any plant containing DMT or mescaline is considered a Schedule I substance. It's always been this way. Law enforcement has simply chosen not to attempt to go after anyone for openly selling these Schedule I hallucinogens online. They have been busting people on and off for years for receiving or possessing DMT and mescaline containing plant material and cacti. That's why the UDV ended up getting a religious freedom exception for importing DMT containing plants and brews - they were arrested for possession and distribution of DMT initially.

The analog act has nothing to do with this. Selling 'smoking blends' is illegal because the FDA has to explicitly approve ANY food or drug for sale. If the FDA hasn't approved an exotic fruit for sale, you can't sell the fruit. It doesn't matter if it grows natively where you live, it's illegal. The only exception is 'dietary supplements', and it looks like they're going to be putting an end to that exception soon too. When you label something as a smoking blend, you're admitting that it's a drug.

If it was labelled as incense, and any employee of the shop or anywhere on their website it mentioned psychoactivity, it became an unapproved drug that the FDA has the right to seize.
 
Any plant containing DMT or mescaline is considered a Schedule I substance. It's always been this way. Law enforcement has simply chosen not to attempt to go after anyone for openly selling these Schedule I hallucinogens online.

I disagree... there are 7 plants which are specifically stated as being illegal.

Catha edulis ~ "Khat" (except seeds)
Psilocybin containing Mushrooms ~ "'Shrooms" (except spores)
Papaver somniferum ~ "Opium Poppy" (except seeds)
Tabernanthe iboga ~ "Iboga"
Lophophora williamsii ~ "Peyote"
Erythroxylum coca ~ "Coca"
Cannabis species ~ "Marijuana"


All other plants are 100% legal as long as they aren't intended for drug use.
 
Where did you get that list? Cite a source please.

Psilocybin containing mushrooms are not scheduled. Only psilocybin and psilocin is. How do you think people are prosecuted for possessing Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms if they aren't listed in the CSA?

Here is the text from the Controlled Substances Act:

http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/csa/812.htm said:
(c) Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation:
...
(6) Dimethyltryptamine.
...
(8) Ibogaine.
...
(11) Mescaline.

San Pedro cactus is a material which contains a quantity of mescaline. Mimosa hostilis is a material which contains a quantity of dimethyltryptamine. Iboga is a material which contains a quantity of ibogaine.

That makes their plant matter all Schedule I substances. It doesn't matter if they're alive or dead.

Iboga isn't even listed, only ibogaine is.
 
Here is the relevant section of the CSA. It's pretty explicit: ANY material containing a listed substance is also banned. This specific wording precedes the section of Schedule I listing mescaline, THC, DMT, and many other naturally occurring psychedelics; similar wordings precede many other subsections of the various schedules, you can see for yourself with the above link.

"(c) Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation:"



As for BBB being too explicit about uses of their products, I was referring to their front page message:

"So you've heard some crazy stuff about Salvia, Amanita Muscaria, Kratom and other cool things? Now what?

Well, you've found us. That's a start. There's a whole new, fantastic world of Ethnobotanicals you've stumbled upon.

What? You don't know what Ethnobotanicals are? The quick answer is that Ethnobotanicals are plants that have some significant relationship to humans. This can be anything from common medicinal Herbals to Salvia divinroum, Amanita muscaria or other Entheogens.

If you came here trying to learn about Salvia, you'll probably be interested in the other Entheogens, of which Salvia is just one of hundreds. Entheogens are plants commonly used in Shamanic practices. They are usually referred to as "hallucinogenic" or "the new drug threatening your kids" by the media. But as scary as they are to the media and the government, they have actually been used for thousands of years by humans all over the world. Entheogens are the basis of just about every religion ever seen in the world including Christianity and may very well be at least partially responsible for much of human evolution as well as civilization.

Unfortunately, that part of human history is little known by the mainstream today. In fact that information and the practicing of our ancestors religions is being suppressed today by those in power. From the illegalization and eradication of plants like Salvia divinorum or Amanita muscaria to to the propaganda and arrests against those that do still try to practice our oldest traditions, this knowledge and way of life is being threatened.

The ethnobotanicals we offer like Salvia divinorum, Amanita muscaria, Kratom, San Pedro Cactus and the traditions and beliefs associated with them should be respected, not feared. It is our mission at Bouncing Bear Botanicals to preserve the most basic way of life and traditions and the plants associated with it through education, keeping the plants and the knowledge of them available to those that seek to find them. "

It certainly doesn't explicitly say "you should buy our products and use them to get high" but it may be enough for them to claim he had prior knowledge of peoples' likely intent to consume. Not sure if it'll be relevant in this case given that they're not charging him under the analog act, but it still probably won't help his case, even though it technically says nothing illegal - we all know the feds enforce these laws selectively against people they decide are 'the bad guys' in the drug war, and this makes it clear he's politically against them, so they launched their bullshit drug war attack on him like so many before him.... Hopefully he has a good lawyer and beats the charges but it will still be a nightmare for him for months or years to come. Argh, I can't even discuss this without getting bitter about the WoD.
 
I've been spreading the savejon link on facebook, gmail buzz, etc... probably couldn't hurt if people do the same.
 
Someone should bring a multi-billion dollar suit against wallmart for selling san pedro cacti using this arrest as the test case for their lawsuit. (class action cooperate responsibility style lawsuit). The courts can't hide behind the same hypocrisy as the LEO and wallmart's lawyers would tear a new asshole in the lawsuit (and thus the laws that allowed this arrest) assuming the plantif forced the issue to trial and refused all settlements.
 
Under what pretext would you sue WalMart for selling San Pedro? They aren't guilty of anything. You'd have to kill yourself with a mescaline overdose after a WalMart employee advised you to ingest San Pedro for them to have liability for anything.
 
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