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  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

basis for new types of stimulants?

I know skizos and they're chimneys 24/7 no matter what the situation. Alot of them don't seem very bored to me. But like every 15-20min the puff all they way down, it's so gross i cant b around them or i feel sick. Yellow teeth and mountains of butts!
 
I think tobacco, prior to acquiring tolerance, can certainly be euphoric - as long as you don't overdose which is very easy to do with no tolerance. I loved the nicotine (slash MAOI?) buzz I used to get when I first started smoking. Its not comparable to opiates or amps, so its mild in that regard, but mild euphoria is still nice.

After a tolerance is developed, nicotine is nice for boosting the euphoria of OTHER drugs, but that initial tobacco-only euphoria dissapears pretty quickly.

That said, the idea of new nicotinic chollinergic agonists doesn't seem particularly interesting as far as recreational psychoactivity is concerned, particularly if the MAOI aspect of tobacco smoke is central to tobacco's effects.
 
<pyridinyl_30> said:
According to the history book that I read, there were alkaloids other than nicotine which were responsible for the hallucinations, but since this happened a couple of hundred years ago there is no way to be certain. GC/MS, NMR, FTIR and HPLC technology came along much later.

I think it's a shame we don't have any of the hallucinogenic tobacco cultivars left to sample, test, and assay. So, basically, who knows?

(The name of the book btw is Seeds of Wealth: Five Plants That Made Men Rich by Henry Hobhouse.)
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Tabacco is somethimes still added to ayahuasca brews in the amazon region to this day and i suspect that smoking a foot long arm thick sigare might prove to be hallucinogenic, if it doesn't kill you.

But you reminded me of something i noticed a few years ago when i ran across some dried Nicotiana langsdorfii leaves. This plant has been discribed as having traditional etnobotanical use, and it's mentioned in Rausch's encyclopedia of psychoactive plants. When i smoked them i fully expected a nicotine rush however this was completely absent what i did notice was the mildly sedatice action i accociate with the action of the harmine/harmaline fraction Perganum harmala. So i wondered if in this species the beta-carboline fraction isn't much higher than in the traditional tabacco plant.
 
After doing a little more research I am inclined to agree that nicotine is a dead end for recreational drugs. It does not have any direct euphoric effect, so any agonist strong enough to produce intense euphoria would also block acetylcholine and cause schitzophrenia or death. In terms of a treatment for schitzophrenia, I believe its treatment mainly comes from this cholergenic effect. Many anticholergens like benedryl induce schitzophrenia at sufficiently high doses. As to whether skitzos chronic smoking comes from some mild alleviation of symptoms from smoking or if it is merely compulsive behavior as a side effect of severe mental illness I cannot say
 
Mudeltakappa said:
Well, tolerance wouldn't quickly develop to the effect if that was the case.
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Tolerance is only an issue when you're trying not to feel WDs, not when your trying to feel the effects of the 1st few times u smoked. Altho i dont actually believe its lack of o2, atleast not solely.

I doubt tobacco is hallucinogen, that word gets thrown around alot more than is should. When native americans or whatever other tribal types claim the use of tobacco for "visionary" purposes, that does not necessarily mean the same thing. Closing your eyes to see "visions" is done all the time w/o drugs, we all do it, and if those "visions" have been altered in someway by somethings that's been taken then it's "visionary" but not hallucinogenic. So basically dont go out trying to OD on tobacco to see what cool visuals yer gonna get lol. Yer better off smokn banana peels.

Stick with legitimate substances, take things with "a grain of salt". Caffeine is hallucinogenic as well. I dont think it would be very fun, probly pretty toxic feeling and probly not really visual either
 
(zonk) said:
Tolerance is only an issue when you're trying not to feel WDs, not when your trying to feel the effects of the 1st few times u smoked.
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Huh? Not sure what you are getting at here... of course tolerance is an issue in the disappearance of euphoric effects from regular smoking.
 
I don't follow that bit either.

Tobacco is certainly not hallucinogenic. I've only tried nicotaina and rustica, and I'll never even consider the latter again.

Look what happens when non-smokers and smokers alike are given IV nicotine. Increases anxiety, but doesn't produce euphoria. No surprise there. Nicotine produces a disgusting feeling. Now when you smoke those first few times, it is pretty neat, but it never seems to come back.

I used to smoke cigars on a daily basis, but now I'm down to once or twice a month- just too busy with a smally baby. Restrict myself to padron family reserve no. 45 maduros lately. If they weren't about 300 for ten I'd have more.
 
from the book Seeds of Wealth: Five Plants that Made Men Rich by Henry Hobhouse, pp. 194-195:

Unlike Amerindians in the Caribbean or what is now South America, the natives of the Chesapeake region used not the bland N. tabacum, but other species higher in nicotine content and including many other alkaloids. Such tobacco use was likely to produce hallucinations and the plants were thought to have supernatural powers and even to spring from transcendental origins...Suffice to say that hallucination and accompanying shamanism are unlikely to be fueled by N. tabacum, since there are few alkaloids in this species to produce hallucinations. But the Amerindians whom the early English colonists met at Jamestown in 1607 did not smoke the relatively mild N. tabacum [but rather N. rusticum]...It was John Rolfe, the husband of Pocahontas, who pointed the way to the future in 1612. In that year, he planted N. tabacum and harvested the seeds for the first time in Virginia. The seed was brought from Trinidad, and in those days it was called Oronoco tobacco.
 
yeah, that's not research, that's hypothesis. actual use doesn't replicate such claims.
 
Did you even read the part where it says that N. tabacum is not hallucinogenic? It's agreeing with you. And I didn't say it was research; I said it was a history book.
 
yes, but it also disagrees with me- and I can't stand opposing viewpoints. I'm a Tea Party Republican and God Fearing and masturbate only with holy water on my hands.

but N. rustica isn't hallucinogenic either- just a really good way to feel like shit.
 
It took me a long time to really become discerning with them. I started smoking lots of RyJ Habana Reserves (and not the Cuban RyJ's) and Onyx Reserve's.

After three years though, I've settled on a small group of mostly Nicaraguan puros. They're not all so pricey though. I really like El Baton Double Toros and Oliva liga especials. They're far more affordable, and while they might not be in the same league as the padrons, they're still wonderful cigars.

I purchased a box of the 80th Anniversary maduro perfectos from the year they were first issued (I forget the exact year now- I have the box somewhere in my basement right now) this summer after a great night of blackjack. They age their tobaccos wonderfully before even selling the things, but letting them sit a few more years does wonderful stuff to them. Unfortunately I only have one left now :( I wish I had the ability to keep really good cigars really long term, like the lucky bastards who're still smoking their 60+ year old cubans (CA has that section where they smoke five or six aged smokes and there are always at least one over 40 years old in there!)
 
I personally would love to see something with identical effects to Nicotine but longer-acting and maybe less peripheral.

I use Nicotine very regularly - in the form of patches. As such, I find it actually substitutes for amphetamines and I have used it successfully to beat my dexedrine habit. Unlike amps though, Nicotine helps tremendously with memory, whereas the former seems to weaken the memory with continued use. And while Nicotine has no euphoric rush like amp., it still has a most definite mood-brightening effect with increased motivation and energy.

I find it easy to agree with the conclusion that almost all of Nicotine's attributed negatives are really specifically due to cigarettes: they are a lousy route of administration for a drug with such a short half-life, and they contain other substances that contribute significantly to addiction. It seems to me that Nicotine on its own in the form of patches is as innocuous as it gets.
 
it still has a most definite mood-brightening effect with increased motivation and energy.
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The research on that subject disagrees. They find no mood lifting effect whatsoever, and indeed, some find dysphoria.

Additionally, nicotine itself forms a carcinogenic metabolite some nitroso derivative IIRC.
 
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