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Stimulants Base (speed) First time user: Freezing?

Why don't your people just make meth,even powdered meth,it's easy to make and is very pure if made properly...I wonder why they only make amphetamine in Europe ? Methamphetamine,either in crystal or powder form is so easy to make,it is defintely easier than making amphetamine like you are talking about,,with psudoephedrine one can make a batch without any heat,chemical glassware or other shit,and from start to finish it can be done in only a numbe rof hours,the actual process itself takes only an hour or so working alone,and then to let it rock up/dry out takes more time than the actual production,and if you know what you are doing,as I can honestly say i know about the various ways to make meth then you can get powdered meth over 90% pure...from there it's not very har deither to wash the powdered meth and "grow crystals" altho this take smuch longer...
 
DavisK4high247 said:
Why don't your people just make meth,even powdered meth,it's easy to make and is very pure if made properly...I wonder why they only make amphetamine in Europe ? Methamphetamine,either in crystal or powder form is so easy to make,it is defintely easier than making amphetamine like you are talking about,,with psudoephedrine one can make a batch without any heat,chemical glassware or other shit,and from start to finish it can be done in only a numbe rof hours,the actual process itself takes only an hour or so working alone,and then to let it rock up/dry out takes more time than the actual production,and if you know what you are doing,as I can honestly say i know about the various ways to make meth then you can get powdered meth over 90% pure...from there it's not very har deither to wash the powdered meth and "grow crystals" altho this take smuch longer...
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Surely if it was that easy everyone would be doing it right? I've checked out lots of procedures and they all seem to be pretty risky and involve nasty chemicals such as red phosphorus and hydrogen gas under pressure etc. The only one I've seen which is as straightforward as you describe is the crappy vicks inhaler one which just gives the useless L-meth...So unless you've actually done it yourself then I'll remain very sceptical - but if you have then I'm all ears=D
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
The UK speed scene is pretty useless these days from what I can gather, it's all this fucking paste shit. People rave about how strong it is, but back in the old days when speed was proper sulphate just a few lines would keep you up all night. These days you need to bomb a teenth just to get a decent buzz. Base speed is basically an unfinished product - it needs to be converted to the sulphate salt to stabilise it and increase its bioavailability. This is why it goes off a lot quicker and gives you more unwanted physical side effects (re. OP's seizure). Also, drying it out to snort is a waste of time because the potency is in the oil which makes it wet. Why the hell don't we get crystal meth in this country - i'd fucking love to give that a go..
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This is where you are getting it wrong. Base/paste is originally amphetamine sulfate which has been wetted with either water or a some kind of solvent like isopropyl alcohol.

I believe the reason for this is that by cutting the speed by adding liquid to it and thus making it a paste is partly because of the poeple downer the drug ladder don't have clue how to cut a paste. It is also a way to make speeds quality not drop to the same level as the powder form of speed in UK nowadays. It is totally worthless because is always cut to fuck.

If you do not believe read my post above in this thread and follow the instructions how dry base/paste into a powder.
 
LivingOnValium said:
This is where you are getting it wrong. Base/paste is originally amphetamine sulfate which has been wetted with either water or a some kind of solvent like isopropyl alcohol.

I believe the reason for this is that by cutting the speed by adding liquid to it and thus making it a paste is partly because of the poeple downer the drug ladder don't have clue how to cut a paste. It is also a way to make speeds quality not drop to the same level as the powder form of speed in UK nowadays. It is totally worthless because is always cut to fuck.

If you do not believe read my post above in this thread and follow the instructions how dry base/paste into a powder.
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Well I'm not a chemist so I'm not going to argue on the finer points of amphetamine manufacture, but I do have some knowledge of chemical theory and what I said is what I understand from people who are chemists. Plus, what you say above doesn't make sense for several reasons: 1. Why would the chemists spend more time & money performing an additional step to the procedure to take a good product and basically degrade it to a weaker product which is sticky and more difficult to handle with no apparent advantages from doing so? The a reason for freebasing cocaine is so that it can be smoked. You can't smoke base phet so there's no point. 2. I can't see the criminal masterminds really giving a damn over how easy their product is to cut once it's left their hands. 3. Paste is very easy to cut - you either just mix glucose with it as it is or you let it dry out first then cut it - no problem there (I know, I've done it myself). 4. Paste is way, way less potent than the proper sulphate powder in the early eighties - a gram would last a week, and even at the height of my 'speed freak' days I wouldn't get through more than 3g a week. With paste, you can easily get through an 1/8 (3.5g) in a night - you need a teenth to even get a decent buzz - you can't tell me this is the same stuff. 5. Base amphetamine (or many other chemicals) is not a stable molecule - the sulphate group is added to complete the electron shells therefore making it less reactive. Base is much more reactive so will combine with the body's chemistry in undesirable ways thus giving rise to unwanted side effects e.g palpitations, dizziness etc. which can detract from the 'high' or desirable effects. It also oxidises much quicker so goes off very quickly, which is why drying it out gives such variable results - IME making it much less potent. This is why most pharmaceuticals are in the salt form - typically hydrochloride, Phosphate & Sulphate. Also, the salt form is much more easily absorbed through the mucous membranes than the base (think of putting salt on a slug), which is why sulphate gives you a proper rush and base just gets stuck up your nose. Anyway, fuck all that, let's just make some meth.. ;)
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Well I'm not a chemist so I'm not going to argue on the finer points of amphetamine manufacture, but I do have some knowledge of chemical theory and what I said is what I understand from people who are chemists. Plus, what you say above doesn't make sense for several reasons: 1. Why would the chemists spend more time & money performing an additional step to the procedure to take a good product and basically degrade it to a weaker product which is sticky and more difficult to handle with no apparent advantages from doing so? The a reason for freebasing cocaine is so that it can be smoked. You can't smoke base phet so there's no point. 2. I can't see the criminal masterminds really giving a damn over how easy their product is to cut once it's left their hands. 3. Paste is very easy to cut - you either just mix glucose with it as it is or you let it dry out first then cut it - no problem there (I know, I've done it myself). 4. Paste is way, way less potent than the proper sulphate powder in the early eighties - a gram would last a week, and even at the height of my 'speed freak' days I wouldn't get through more than 3g a week. With paste, you can easily get through an 1/8 (3.5g) in a night - you need a teenth to even get a decent buzz - you can't tell me this is the same stuff. 5. Base amphetamine (or many other chemicals) is not a stable molecule - the sulphate group is added to complete the electron shells therefore making it less reactive. Base is much more reactive so will combine with the body's chemistry in undesirable ways thus giving rise to unwanted side effects e.g palpitations, dizziness etc. which can detract from the 'high' or desirable effects. It also oxidises much quicker so goes off very quickly, which is why drying it out gives such variable results - IME making it much less potent. This is why most pharmaceuticals are in the salt form - typically hydrochloride, Phosphate & Sulphate. Also, the salt form is much more easily absorbed through the mucous membranes than the base (think of putting salt on a slug), which is why sulphate gives you a proper rush and base just gets stuck up your nose. Anyway, fuck all that, let's just make some meth.. ;)
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You're obviously no chemist :). FYI amphetamine freebase is a clear oil, and thus very difficult to handle. Seen anyone selling liquid amphetamine?

Amnphetamine sold on street is always a sulphate or a phosphate salt. Amphetamine HCl is too hygroscopic to crystallize and therefore doesn't exist.

It's not the chemist that makes the product into a form of putty. It comes out as a sulphate/phosphate salt which is a powder.

It's the (bulk) dealer cutting it with a liquid (and possibly with glucose or something else) that makes the stuff a paste. Of course you can cut it with glucose to make it snortable because the added glucose absorbs part of the moisture, hence a bit drier product that can be racked into lines. But by doing this you're just reducing your products potency even further.

Stop talking about amphetamine base's stability because the the base/paste amphetamine is always a salt form, just like the powder. Amphetamine salts are very stable, except the HCl.

Why don't you just try drying the base/paste so you can see yourself that it will result into a powder. And the one thing we agree about is that amphetamine sulphate/phosphate is a powder, yes?

In the case you still haven't realized base is uk slang for amphetamine sulphate/phosphate not cut to fuck. Base amphetamine has nothing to do with the amphetamine base oil. I'm not trying to argue it's always of good quality because that's not the case. But most of the times it's still better than the powder wizz which is just terrible. I've lived in UK for several years and did my fare share of drugs over there.
 
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Hey LivingOnValium, methinks we agree on a lot more than you realise, we're just looking from different angles... Yes, I know amphetamine base is an oil - as I said in my first post 'the potency is in the oil which makes it wet'. Also, I have tried drying out the paste many times (as I implied in my previous posts) and yes, it does result in a powder but with very reduced potency and is absolutely useless for snorting. However, I think we may be talking about two different products here. The 'base' I mean is actually amphetamine base (oil) which has been mixed (cut) with glucose or some other innocuous powder to provide a matrix to make it more handleable (like you said, you don't see anyone selling liquid amphetamine). I know for a fact this is what a lot of paste consists of - hence the slang name 'base'. This makes sense logically because the (lazy) chemist doesn't have to complete the process, meaning it is easier, cheaper and quicker to get more product out on the street, therefore bigger profits. The downside is, as I keep saying, inferior product that goes off quicker and when the oil has dried out you're just left with the cut. On the other hand, you seem to be talking about amphetamine sulphate (which, yes, we both agree is in powder form) to which the wholesaler adds some liquid to make a paste. Now I agree this is feasible, but I don't actually know of this happening for definite. What liquid is used exactly? You mentioned ether, but wouldn't that dry far too quickly? Also logically, I can't see any point in doing so. Just because it's a paste doesn't guarantee it hasn't been cut. Like I said, it's still easy to cut and what's to stop other dealers further down the line just adding the same liquid to heavily cut paste to make it a paste again? Now I don't know if both these methods of paste manufacture exist side by side on the street, but your method should in theory be a far superior product to my method and unfortunately, I've never knowingly come across it. I don't know if you've ever had any proper good quality sulphate powder, but none of the base/paste I've come across in the last 20 years has even come close. That's not to say it doesn't work, but you just need a lot more of it and snorting it is no more effective than bombing it (I.V.ing is ok though) - then there's the price - 25 years ago I was paying £15 a gram - now it's usually about £25 a 1/4 oz? Fuck, if I could get shit like that again I'd happily pay £15 a gram again.....
 
I'm not saying base isn't cut. It's usually powder amphetamine sulphate cut with fructose/glucose and then wetted. You suggest base-speed is a powder impregnated with amphetamine freebase oil? I have to disagree.

Amphetamine freebase is an oil. It's common knowledge that oils don't mix with water.

You said you've injected paste speed. If it was freebase you would have two layers of liquid in the syringe. The non-polar layer (oil) on top and the aqueous layer below. Something that i've never seen to happen. amphetamine base oil simply isn't miscible with water and is also corrosive and therefore not suitable for injecting.

Also making the freebase amphetamine in the salt form is not much of an effort compared to making the amphetamine freebase from the precursors.
 
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I have some UK amphetamine base drying under an infrared lamp right now. Will let you know how it goes, and if there is a reduction in potency or not.
 
Meth is some nasty stuff! Here in arizona the shits EVERYWHERE, you can walk down the street and ask any homeless lookin guy where to score and i guarentee you end up with what ya need. I live in the Valley of the sun aka the valley of the spun
 
we aren't discussing meth i'm tired of twats always distracting threads about amphetamine sulphate (of which there are too few and not enough information) with pointless stupid comments about meth of which there is pretty much none in the uk, no-one cares how badass your town is, shut up.

now i have been taking ''base'' in the past few weeks. my dealer freezes his i think as it is always cold when i get it. drying it does not decrese the potency. i always dry mine by just leaving it out for a few hours. since bombing it sucks i'd advise this as you can then snort it and at least get a rush
 
Yeah mine dries out fine with no reduction in potency. Have tried an acetone wash serveral times, as well as the purification tek in the amphetamine FAQ, but I haven't been able to remove any cuts, or even extract the amphetamine salt. Hmmm. Any ideas?
 
Why the hell do they call this crap base? Also who gets the idea to cut something dry with a liquid or w/e to turn it into glop. Seriously this sounds ridiculous, from what you guys are saying there is really no reason for it to be wet? I honestly feel bad that people don't just have dex... Really this should be dex, but they turn it to glop for some odd reason?
 
I'd kill for some d-amphetamine. Only source of that over here is diverted rx meds, which are much less commonplace than in the US.
 
wtblife said:
Why the hell do they call this crap base? Also who gets the idea to cut something dry with a liquid or w/e to turn it into glop. Seriously this sounds ridiculous, from what you guys are saying there is really no reason for it to be wet? I honestly feel bad that people don't just have dex... Really this should be dex, but they turn it to glop for some odd reason?
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I know how sad it all sounds but, believe me, it's true. Usually eurospeed is just a far cry from crystal meth.
 
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