B.C. doctors given Health Canada approval to prescribe heroin

Re. methadone vs. heroin withdrawal - It'll depend on tolerance/dose as well, right? When I was in withdrawal when on 250mg of methadone daily, no other opioid came close to how shitty I was feeling after 3 days. It was over 2 years ago but I still get a very unpleasant feeling thinking about it.

I get it though - the others (having a shorter half-life) will usually cause a shorter, more intense withdrawal. Dilaudid did this to me. Very intense, but thankfully over with after 96-108 hours from last dose.
 
Yeah, it's the sheer duration of meth or bupe withdrawals that mess with my head; the half lives of these drugs are insane-I've known people who feel bad even after a couple of months.

Of course, when I remember the sheer agony of heroin withdrawals, I still get cold sweats....

I've personally been using bupe for 8 years now. For some reason, I've never formed a tolerance to it; I've never had to increase my dose. Anybody know why this is? (Considering the insane tolerances of other opiate drugs)?
 
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Because bupe is actually more effective in smaller doses. See the painkilling doses it is used for. More than 8mg is totally useless as this is supposed to saturate your opi receptors and nothing will displace it. Well maybe fentanyl, when I switched to suboxone the doctor told me that if I ever get hurt, like real bad, I gotta tell the docs I'm on sub. So the docs/nurses would give me shots of Demerol or fentanyl, apparently one can still get high from Demerol if I read correctly, I wonder why.
 
dopemegently said:
I've personally been using bupe for 8 years now. For some reason, I've never formed a tolerance to it; I've never had to increase my dose. Anybody know why this is? (Considering the insane tolerances of other opiate drugs)?
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Could it be something to do with the fact that it's (iirc) a partial mu-opioid agonist?
 
I'm not sure about the brain chemistry of it; it gets very complex. Bupe is a very strange and unique opiate IME, and very effective for drug replacement therapy-it's an opiate that blocks the effects of other opiates, it's effects last forever, it's only a partial agonist, it becomes more effective the less of it you take, and there's no tolerance effect to it. I've not come across an opiate like it, it's unique.

Is bupe a synthetic opiate btw?

^^you're right about the painkilling doses, I once had some "temgesic" (this is years before they found a use for it in opiate addiction) and it came by the microgram! It goes to show how ridiculously high its dosed for addicts-I'm on 12 mgs, and I've known people on 32mgs.
 
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dopemegently said:
I'm trying something like that as well; apparently sub reduces testosterone over time...is that working out for you? I've been on sub 8 years now-long-term scripts are common here. Course, the longer you stay on it the harder it can be to quit.
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Does it really? I've been on it for 6 years. Sounds a little scary.

Long-term Suboxone scripts are common here too.
 
I can't remember where I read it, but it was a trustworthy source.

I don't regret starting suboxone, but I wish I had done a short-term taper. As I said, I've been on it far too long. To be frank, I'm terrified of coming off it. I don't really get "high" from it, I'm just taking it to stop getting sick.

^Have you experienced any negative side effects from bupe? For myself, I kind of feel emotionally numb all the time; I find it hard to take pleasure in pretty much anything. I'm not sure if I can blame this on the sub, though.
 
dopemegently said:
For myself, I kind of feel emotionally numb all the time; I find it hard to take pleasure in pretty much anything. I'm not sure if I can blame this on the sub, though.
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When you say you feel emotionally numb, do you mean apathetic? Because I was hoping eventually to switch to it from methadone, which makes me feel emotionally numb as well. However, it's not nearly as intense as (for example) an SSRI. I was on Zoloft for a time, and I couldn't laugh or cry even if I wanted to. On the methadone, I can laugh/cry without much effort, but the emotional response in me is definitely blunted.
 
23536 said:
I wish taxes weren't part of the debate here. Like, I wish they would first legalize heroin maintenance and then decide whether or not they want to pay for it. The libertarian-minded demographic is torn between the people who want the government out of their medicine cabinet and the people who want the government out of their wallet.
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I think the issue with under -funding/-mining the project would come up quite a lot.
 
pmoseman said:
I think the issue with under -funding/-mining the project would come up quite a lot.
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If there's any industry that can survive without subsidies, it's the recreational heroin industry. Hell, we've been aggressively suppressing it for like 80 years and it is as strong as ever.
 
ro4eva said:
When you say you feel emotionally numb, do you mean apathetic? Because I was hoping eventually to switch to it from methadone, which makes me feel emotionally numb as well. However, it's not nearly as intense as (for example) an SSRI. I was on Zoloft for a time, and I couldn't laugh or cry even if I wanted to. On the methadone, I can laugh/cry without much effort, but the emotional response in me is definitely blunted.
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Yeah, totally apathetic. It's been this way for years now. I think it's partially the drugs, and partially the routine I'm in, but I haven't felt naturally happy for a hell of a long time.
 
"Our goal must be to take heroin out to the hands of addicts," Ambrose said, adding Prime Minister Stephen Harper agrees with her, according to CP.
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and both of these people are of course specialists in addcition, having spent many years popping painkillers. Oh wait.

Under the conservatives, our goal is also to "kill all the mean bad guys in $MIDEAST_COUNTRY_DU_JOUR", because our foreign policy planners apparently do nothing but read comic books all day. And that works real great.
 
Ambrose is a.... oh why bother. Long story short, she's just another typical bureaucrat who needs to be replaced with someone who has the education and background worthy of the title "Health Minister." She's also quite the milf. I wonder if she puts out. I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

As for Harper, fucking hate that douche nugget.
 
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Swiss Jails...

ro4eva said:
IIRC, Switzerland has been using diacetylmorphine as a means of opioid maintenance treatment for those who do not respond well to methadone since 1989. Yeah...

Edit - And the program apparently is a huge success.

Unfortunately, cultural taboos in North America seem to influence opinions regarding recreational drug use in general more so than science, studies, etc. Lately however, it appears that is beginning to change.
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Aren't non-violent offenders housed in resort style jails there too? Help me peacefully get my ass extradited, y'all!

Peace&Love,
~f.xy
 
ro4eva said:
That's fantastic.

Slowly, the fascist walls of this war on drugs have begun to crumble.

Harper and his hidden agenda Conservatives know their ulterior motive anti-drug policies have begun to lose their sway. In the face of new or recent, science-driven, factual ideology, adults of all ages who once stubbornly walked and talked the path of the Conservative, have begun to embrace the truth. And I rejoice for being alive to witness the recent events of late which have contributed to slowly but surely undermining this 40+ year-old war on drug users which has caused untold amounts of irreparable damage since its inception, ironically by a crooked president.

I optimistically await the day, when no one has their freedom snatched away because they felt the need to self-medicate or experiment with a psychotropic substance. A day when we shall look upon the so-called "war on drugs" in bemusement and sadness at the hands of capitalist hypocrites who where in a position to stop or avoid this altogether, but rather chose to look the other way because of the 'financial benefits' awaiting them.

Lastly, one day, I hope that those in power who would choose to break their promises during elections, particularly in relation to drug policy reform, are impeached and banned for the rest of their lives from politics in general.

Edit - I seriously need to relocate to Vancouver. I grow tired of Toronto. Partly because the Leafs continue to suck.
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Right on! If only the United States would get with the program....
zt
 
dopemegently said:
I'm not sure which ROA was used for our UK diamorphine scheme. Regardless, I don't know a single user who wouldn't pick pharmaceutical-grade heroin over methadone. We have a tier-based system here; meth for the more "chaotic" user, with the end goal being to stabilize them on short to long-term suboxone scripts, and in some extreme cases residential treatment is provided (although funding is extremely tight)....I've no idea how diamorphine would be incorporated into this system-what exactly would the criteria be to obtain a heroin 'script? Provide enough dirty samples?

Bringing in a new substitute option would radically change our treatment of heroin addiction in my country, and I would welcome it (and not just because I want to use diamorphine, honest)...however, politicians are fucking pussies; I doubt they'd risk angering their electorate by prescribing heroin to addicts. (Can you imagine the shrill headlines from the gutter press?!)
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The ROA was IV, I watched a documentary on tv a decade ago about how it was legal for small list of patients to get their heroin everyday at the pharmacy along with the needles. Why did they get rid of it ? This old respectable looking guy had his life saved, well old, he was middle aged, mid 50's, could be my dad, he had no signs of being a junkie and was leading a perfectly good life. I wonder what happened to him now that the UK had a knee jerk reaction and removed their diamorphine program. So much for a country that has pills so fucking intense like Diconal and a few others like it available.

Man....I'm pretty much over wanting to get high everyday on opis but damn I'd love a shot or two of Diconal..make it a multiple dose one day supply just once :)

As for the testosterone, i'm scripted Detatestryl 200mg once a week subcutaneously since a couple months now, it really works...and it makes me feel a way I didn't since a good half a decade....like normal...and not tired mentally and physically like I am since the latter half of my 20's and on.
 
Wow, "Ms. Ambrose" sounds like a 100% piece of shit. I pray that she fails in whatever meddlesome bullshit she's trying to pull, which should be the case seeing as the doctors actually kinda have science on their side vs. her, who appears to just be running on the argument "Omg, it's heroin, and heroin is bad!"
Actually, no, the pathetic thing is that it sounds more like she doesn't like the idea of not punishing addicts, probably because as with many clueless hypocrites I imagine she has control issues and gets off on the idea of forcing people into living the way she thinks they should. Maybe someone should petition the government to go into her house and remove any junk food then police her to make sure she never eats anything bad again, because clearly people doing things that make them feel good but doesn't benefit them is wrong, and I imagine a lot of people don't think consuming junk food is a good lifestyle choice. Actually, in the long run eating junk food would likely be worse for a person than doing dope seeing as opiates are really pretty benign.

It's sorta stupid that they're worried about possibly substituting hydromorphone, but in that case I don't blame the doctors. That's obviously the scheduling system at work, claiming diacetyl morphine has no accepted medical use; of course there's really no such thing as a substance with no medical value, if something affects the human body it's inevitably going to have medical use, but people like Ms. Ambrose like the world to be black and white so we have to deal with absurdities like heroin being schedule one (or whatever system they use in Canada) while hydromorphone, which obviously has just as strong if not a stronger a potential for abuse (I've heard it produces a pretty uber rush), is schedule 2.

Still, def a step in the right direction. As time goes by dumb motherfuckers (eh, I shouldn't let frustration get to me. They aren't stupid, they're just sadly misinformed, emotionally unhealthy and lacks the ability to grasp the big picture) like Ms. Ambrose's voices will be overwhelmed by logic, reason, and hopefully compassion, and one day the idea of illegal drugs or addicts being left to try to deal with their suffering themselves as society sweeps them under the rug and tries their best to ignore them will seem absurd. I mean, think about that; someone who's miserable and turns to drugs to try to get by is forced to hide away and pray nobody finds out lest someone come in and simply wound them even deeper, punishing them for being miserable. That shit's not right. Marijuana is well on its way to legalization, I just really hope that that will bring with it a new perspective on drug users for many people in the world...
 
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