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Ayahuasca, DMT and Serpents

motiv311

motiv311

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
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San Diego
I've done ayahuasca and dmt recently ... I keep seeing these amazing serpents that sort of seem like Guardians of a holy realm. They seem connected with the planet and mother earth, and sometimes appear as a woman.

i've seen them do this DNA strand dance....

what does it mean? my mother thinks its satanic. ... but i didn't feel that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakes_in_mythology

Now i'm learning about the Kundalini and Oarobourous .. its really awesome .... very mayan and tribal -ish.

Anyone experience similar stuff before?
 
Nope never seen serpants on smoked DMT or Aya/pharmahuasca.

Unlike many I also do not believe that entities or animated forms of extradimensional "life" you might see on DMT or most other drugs are real and mean much of anything. Some people think about serpants, some people think about aliens, some people think about entities, some people think about gnomes or elves. This is reflected in their collective and different experiences on psychedelic drugs.

The only psychedelic I believe might actually reveal a true entity or parallel reality is Salvia.

That's not to say I haven't seen all kinds of things on other psychedelics. But I just don't believe they were true or had any significant meaning. Especially now, in retrospect.
 
bluedolphin said:
The only psychedelic I believe might actually reveal a true entity or parallel reality is Salvia.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, why do you think that?

I'm similar in viewpoint (except I also don't think salvia does it), I've seen all manners of reptiles and people and extra dimensional aliens on DMT, Salvia, Ayahuasca and Mescaline, but I don't think they reflect a tangible reality, just the activity of my brain and perhaps parts of my subconscious. I think that the creatures that appear (and sometimes even tell you things) are just manifestations of our conscious and subconscious thoughts.

I've never seen serpents exactly, but on smoked DMT I've seen these reptile things, they looked more like lizards but also kinda snakelike. They were standing on two legs, wearing suits and line dancing in front of this weird structure that at the time I thought was a car dealership, while they projected pure information from their eyes and toes directly into my brain. Serpents are a common cultural symbol, so we probably have projected them into trips, as Solipsis said.
 
The very programming of the human mind is a sort of framework, constructed from persistent modes that consist of contextual forms and idea fragments, and the resultant processes that relate the two. The serpent is an ancient form that predates man, and is a fundamental part of the architecture of the mental programming of all mammals. I think you'll find this is the case with most of the Jungian archetypes.

I rationalize DMT entities in a similar way. I always employ Occam's razor, or the law of parsimony, in any idea I subscribe to. It requires far fewer assumptions to say that these forms result from existing mental processes than to assume an entire alternate reality exists that we have no other evidence for.
 
psychomimetic said:
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that?
Click to expand...

Because Salvia made me not mostly witness "beings" (although it did that too) but it made me experience multiple dimensions of reality, in an extremely convincing way. Not just visually, or mentally, but physically as well.

I can think of no explanation for the Salvia experience except that it unlocks your brain to experience true alternate realities. You just can't imagine or preconceive the things that happen on a strong Salvia trip.

Also it cannot be simply delusions, because many many people experience a similar, very realistic and profound effect. There is even a goddess associated with Salvia, which I have experienced as well.

Some things are just too weird and real to completely deny.

Even Ayahuasca seemed like simple fantasy compared to Salvia Divinorum -- the truth that we cannot fully comprehend.

It's a real shame it's been banned in most of the western world now. It's also a real shame it became popular among kids and Miley Cyrus and people like that who gave it unneeded attention.

I'll find some seeds and grow my own. One day. The Salvia goddess is very welcoming to those who treat her with respect.

I never needed more than 5x Salvia though to break through... and smoked regular leaves most of the time. All this 20x, 40x and 60x extracts are what ruined it for everyone.

I have also "broken through" with DMT, which is mild and unrealistic in comparison with Salvia. I have also smoked DMT and Salvia at the same time, which was VERY interesting.

Imagine the DMT world being folded like an accordian and then turned into a flip-book, turned on it's head and transformed into an escalator of dimensions by the Salvia. It's rather clear which is the more powerful substance when you do them together ;)
 
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bluedolphin said:
Because Salvia made me not mostly witness "beings" (although it did that too) but it made me experience multiple dimensions of reality, in an extremely convincing way. Not just visually, or mentally, but physically as well.

I can think of no explanation for the Salvia experience except that it unlocks your brain to experience true alternate realities. You just can't imagine or preconceive the things that happen on a strong Salvia trip.

Also it cannot be simply delusions, because many many people experience a similar, very realistic and profound effect. There is even a goddess associated with Salvia, which I have experienced as well.

Some things are just too weird and real to completely deny.

Even Ayahuasca seemed like simple fantasy compared to Salvia Divinorum -- the truth that we cannot fully comprehend.

It's a real shame it's been banned in most of the western world now. It's also a real shame it became popular among kids and Miley Cyrus and people like that who gave it unneeded attention.

I'll find some seeds and grow my own. One day. The Salvia goddess is very welcoming to those who treat her with respect.

I never needed more than 5x Salvia though to break through... and smoked regular leaves most of the time. All this 20x, 40x and 60x extracts are what ruined it for everyone.

I have also "broken through" with DMT, which is mild and unrealistic in comparison with Salvia. I have also smoked DMT and Salvia at the same time, which was VERY interesting.

Imagine the DMT world being folded like an accordian and then turned into a flip-book, turned on it's head and transformed into an escalator of dimensions by the Salvia. It's rather clear which is the more powerful substance when you do them together ;)
Click to expand...

The brain can make us feel, perceive, see, hear, smell, taste and experience things that aren't real though, all perception originates in the brain, so I don't see why the salvia experience would be any different. I've physically interacted with entities on DMT, touched them, smelled them. On Mescaline I walked through a desert with strange fox like creatures hunting and towering cacti like plants sparsely populating the landscape, I could feel the sand under me, hear the animals, feel the heat (I was inside and it was winter), and I even touched one of the other worldly cacti. I think tactile sensation could be manufactured just like any other sensation by the brain.

I agree about the extracts, I've never smoked plain leaf but I think 20x and shit is just way too strong, 5x is plenty sufficient to break through.

I've also smoked salvia and DMT together, in a 50/50 combo and also a few times each where I did a dose of DMT with a small dose of salvia on top or a dose of salvia with a small dose of DMT on top. I view them as similarly powerful but salvia definitely causes more tactile sensation. I always feel like I'm being compressed and stretched at the same time and my head feels like it's being crushed in a box when I'm on salvia, I find it very, very unpleasant.


The experience of many different people seeing a salvia goddess could be many things that are scientifically explainable, like auto suggestion or projection of cultural symbols or even chance. I've never seen such an entity on salvia for what it's worth (which is nothing of course but by the way).

I mean, many schizophrenic people experience profound, very realistic and similar delusions, but it doesn't mean they're based on reality, just that we all are from the same world and most of us from similar cultures. Many people have truly, truly seen god tell them that the soviets are spying on them. They've felt pain and pleasure and tactile sensation, but it doesn't make it real.

I dunno, I'm generally skeptical about any metaphysical claims, especially ones that involve entire different realities that we can't access except for when using one drug. I don't see why everything you mentioned couldn't be marked down to "I'm high as shit on salvia." The ideas and enlightenment that these drugs can provide aren't any less valuable or true because they were caused by a drug instead of a literal alternate reality. But I'm a no good godless heathen, what do I know about such matters ;) .


One thing's for sure, salvia + DMT= one hell of a crazy trip! I wonder what smoking salvia while peaking on ayahuasca would be like. I don't even know if salvia + MAOIs is a safe combo.
 
On smoked dmt I have seen a woman dressed in neon snakeskin that became the walls and ceiling of the room we were standing in... kind of like an ouroboric klein bottle from inside?
I love how dmt archetypes are so commonly shared.
 
I didn't break through on Salvia so I guess I didn't see any entities etc.

I broke through on DMT and saw aliens. They fixed me up and we had a short chat and I went home again.

I broke through for way longer and harder on MXE and contacted aliens, spirits, visited the spirit pool super soul, opened the kundalini and learned a ton of shit.

It was extremely convincing IMO like bluedolphin convinced about Salvia. :)
But what do any of us really know for sure..

I think you can break through and talk to entities on lots of hallucinogens. Depends on the dose and setting etc.

We may never know if it's real or not but I have a feeling we are toying with the spirit world as suggested by some of our mentors.
 
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I've always figured how can you define one thing as real, or one thing as not real, if both can be experienced.

These things have to be real in some form, the debate really is whether the date being received is internal or external. I spent a long while pretty convinced that there are other dimensions out there that literally contain entities, and I still don't rule it out, but I certainly don't rule out the idea that it's just internal thoughts, ideas and sensations being mistakenly experienced as physical stimulus.

I was also thinking the other day about how hard it is to describe a thought, they're somewhat intangible consisting of a endless stream of consciousness made up of talking to ones self, pictures, words, depending on how you form thoughts.
It's intangible much like the psychedelic experience, in other words all it is just your brain seeing how your mind works. Virtually a big soup of information, and you pick and choose what your brain thinks are the important bits.

That's the beauty of it, you can't possibly know, so you just reinterpret in as many ways as possible accepting you will never truly know for sure, and thank whatever the fuck you believe in for the gift of being able to be a conscious being, capable of such thought in the first place :D :D
 
Well, they exist in your brain then, no? If you think they are actual creatures who communicate with you intelligently, then they are probably manifested somehow in the electrical signals in your brain. Can a portion of the human consciousness be an emergent sentient entity by itself? Maybe this is what happens with schizophrenics or so called "mulitiple personality disorder" (which may well apply to all of us since we (sometimes) show different faces to different people)?

There's a book called programming the human biocomputer by John Lilly which I think would be apropos here.

Roger&Me said:
The very programming of the human mind is a sort of framework, constructed from persistent modes that consist of contextual forms and idea fragments, and the resultant processes that relate the two. The serpent is an ancient form that predates man, and is a fundamental part of the architecture of the mental programming of all mammals. I think you'll find this is the case with most of the Jungian archetypes.

I rationalize DMT entities in a similar way. I always employ Occam's razor, or the law of parsimony, in any idea I subscribe to. It requires far fewer assumptions to say that these forms result from existing mental processes than to assume an entire alternate reality exists that we have no other evidence for.
Click to expand...
 
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We will never know till we "go".
None of us know what is really going on. lol
It's good shit. Funny times we are in. I'm happy to be alive. :)
Enjoy what you have now, We'll learn later about all this.

This is a much better state I'm in now than before I got back into psychedelics.
Just focus on one reality at a time. You'll meet the next one when you croak or the next time you get too high.
 
They are both internal and external. Like DNA... The intertwined serpents or dragons represent DNA which is found in both the outside of ourselfs as well as inside of ourselves.. The connect the realms of heaven with the earth. Like a bridge or twisted staircase to heaven.

They are not only mythological. But real. They would love to get back in touch, but people get so disconnected from truth.
 
^^

Isn't that just the Jeremy Narby book idea?

I think the people in the rain forest saw "snakes" because they were frightened of them and were projecting them. I think people in the west see snakes because they've read books like Narby and think that's what you're supposed to see.

I've never seen snakes or jaguars on oral DMT.
 
eye_wide_open said:
You'll meet the next one when you croak or the next time you get too high.
Click to expand...

Dunno if you'll meet any new reality - you probably just blackout and that's the end of it. Like Dawkins said "People seem obsessed with the fantasy of surviving their own death".
 
Ismene said:
Dunno if you'll meet any new reality - you probably just blackout and that's the end of it. Like Dawkins said "People seem obsessed with the fantasy of surviving their own death".
Click to expand...

I saw a Dawkins lecture in person recently. Extremely intelligent, but certainly doesn't know everything, and especially doesn't know what happens after death and shouldn't act like he does. He's very smart, but not that smart.
 
I don't think you need to be smart to know what happens when you die - just have a little common sense unhampered by superstition. Is it likely that when you did a magical being takes your "spirit" and lifts you to heaven where you meet all the other "spirits" in some magical place and have free access to 72 virgins? (I've always wondered what use are the virgins when your penis is still attached to your body?)

I'd say it's pretty unlikely and I'm not holding my breath expecting it. When you step on a bug it dies. The same with us.
 
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