Avoiding Ignorance

[hoopyfrood]

Oh, and to be honest, I think it's more important to eliminate stubbornness than eliminate ignorance. This world sucks because people are stubborn and close-minded, not because they are ignorant.

 

[Raw Evil]

Any knowledge we can ever attain is ultimately filtered / tainted by the combination of our (arguably limited) sensory perception and ultimately-human ability for comprehension.

I once was driven by the need for knowledge of absolutely-friggin-everything, but gradually came closer and closer to the realisation that no matter how hard we try, everything we experience is - in the end - subjective. We have no way of proving beyond all doubt that we aren't in The Matrix or something akin to it.

So where does this leave us tiny humans? Well for starters, I found comfort in the belief that when you boil everything else down, the only function a mind accomplishes is to solve problems, and thus the only purpose a human intellect serves is to solve the problems of the body. This, I reasoned, is congruent to the buddhist notion of Dukkha, or "suffering" (I'm no Buddhist myself, but I found a lot of wisdom in reading about it). Such problems/suffering cannot be removed from our existence because the mind's purpose is to identify them/it and solve/eliminate.

All that said, this is only the concepts I have made for myself, to build a comforting shelter for my mind. Yours may not be comfortable inside, but you are welcome to make alterations

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

Hmmm, I have come to see far too much ignorance of the bad kind.

When a person or persons can't get answers indirectly to their skepticism about information they don't have about a person, they jump into conclusions, from the indirect exploration they try to do to find out-and all out of the square box they live in!

Unless one has the full story from the people concerned (considered out of the horses mouth), too many suppositions and seemingly obvious appearances can be made, that they look as if it fits their so called exploration-and only to find themselves even more in the wrong conclusions! Funny about people!

The more they search the more misinterpretations they make, until the story they are seeking to find, they have constructed it totally wrong out of their so called tried and true...lacking the proper factual information.

I guess people's ignorance does not have to do with general and academic knowledge per se, but what they think they really know about someone-which they think they have tested and tried and have come out basing their so called conclusions-upon a falacy! They can do innocent people undue harm as they spread their falacy based stories, that can be so far fetched from the truth!
Frued had lost faith in human nature-and became pesimistic because their dark side and skepticism turns out into paranoia through which they make up their associations. I can see why Frued became such a skeptic! A little trust, can go a long way! One saves this way their sanity as well.

 

[KStoner6tb]

^Well said LITM...very good

 

[hoopyfrood]

Hmmm, I have come to see far too much ignorance of the bad kind.

When a person or persons can't get answers indirectly to their skepticism about information they don't have about a person, they jump into conclusions, from the indirect exploration they try to do to find out-and all out of the square box they live in!

Unless one has the full story from the people concerned (considered out of the horses mouth), too many suppositions and seemingly obvious appearances can be made, that they look as if it fits their so called exploration-and only to find themselves even more in the wrong conclusions! Funny about people!

The more they search the more misinterpretations they make, until the story they are seeking to find, they have constructed it totally wrong out of their so called tried and true...lacking the proper factual information.

I guess people's ignorance does not have to do with general and academic knowledge per se, but what they think they really know about someone-which they think they have tested and tried and have come out basing their so called conclusions-upon a falacy! They can do innocent people undue harm as they spread their falacy based stories, that can be so far fetched from the truth!
Frued had lost faith in human nature-and became pesimistic because their dark side and skepticism turns out into paranoia through which they make up their associations. I can see why Frued became such a skeptic! A little trust, can go a long way! One saves this way their sanity as well.

The bad part about that isn't the ignorance, it's the fact that people are obstinately close-minded and pigheaded. There's no problem with being ignorant if people are willing to take corrections and assumptions lightheartedly.

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

^^^
Yes, the point here is, that too much accumulation of bad affects on a person on a constant basis, can built and they lose faith in it all. You may see the corrections, but when people overload you on a continuous basis, you stop and say wtf?

It is a two way street, that you try to correct it, try to change it, and you get into the aproach of holding the olive branch, but they throw it in the gutter, and hit you even more! How much of enough is enough?

It owes to be a two way street. One can try, but when it comes ten fold from all around, one becomes disillusioned and give up the olive branch and use the same as their tactics, since the olive branch becomes useless!

 

[hoopyfrood]

^ I'm not quite sure I completely understand you here... are you trying to say that because everyone else is so stubborn, that it's hard for you to be a real open-minded person?

 

[KStoner6tb]

^^^
Yes, the point here is, that too much accumulation of bad affects on a person on a constant basis, can built and they lose faith in it all. You may see the corrections, but when people overload you on a continuous basis, you stop and say wtf?

It is a two way street, that you try to correct it, try to change it, and you get into the aproach of holding the olive branch, but they throw it in the gutter, and hit you even more! How much of enough is enough?

It owes to be a two way street. One can try, but when it comes ten fold from all around, one becomes disillusioned and give up the olive branch and use the same as their tactics, since the olive branch becomes useless!

Maybe you need to find a bigger branch? One which is a lot more sturdy?

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

^ I'm not quite sure I completely understand you here... are you trying to say that because everyone else is so stubborn, that it's hard for you to be a real open-minded person?

I am an open minded person, but I speak metaphorically here, obviously and what I am trying to say is, that people can fear the unkown, and regardless how open you are to accept-they are skeptical and suspitious unless you pour out your guts and be stripped naked (soul wise-and who you are fully). Thier skepticism goes beyond imagination, that regardless how much love and acceptance you give out, they don't get to shed their skepticism unless they strip you off your dignity, unless they have full control. Though you may have reasons to keep certain privacy to protect others that one affects their life, they don't respect that, all they want is unending control. Ignorance, stubborness wanting full control, though you respect their own privacy and accept them, their attacks for no apparant reason on a contiuous basis, regardless how much love and acceptance you may have and give out-in the end, your sensitivity is hurt, and the only way to get on top of it emotionally and respecting youself-besides what they try to do-bear it, you start attacking back-you end up becoming the one hurting them just as much as they hurt you. Ignorance or stubborness? I call it ignorance! Your authentic self tells you about a person, especially when you hear them speaking, one does not need to strip them to the bone. I am on purpose being perhaps enigmatic here, purposely being metaphorical.
I admire always, your need to clarify when you don't understand me, there is a beauty behind that-in you!!n I hope I am making a llittle more sense now? Hopefully!

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

Maybe you need to find a bigger branch? One which is a lot more sturdy?

Mayby it is not worth it! Friendship in bluelight is a falacy, it has be proven so to me at least! Unless they strip you from individuality, your dignity, wanting you to bear all out, and even so, they attack your very core. Not all are the same, but there is a basic fault-I have seen, and it gets worse!
There is no friendship without respect for the other, without TRUST!
I don't think a bigger branch is owed to be given out, when what one sees is obvious that it is not worthy it-friendship cannot be based on doubt and interogation and skepticism or fear. If the branch is thrown to the gutter, you don't give a larger one. One tests where they place their foot, before they stand fully on it! So far, it has proven there is vacancy under where I try to step-it collapses before I stand stardy! I don't intrude on your privacy-don't intrude but be a friend-if you are capable of providing that!
If you tell me what you tell me I take it as such. I don't betray you, I don't let others use me as a vehicle to dig out more private information you don't want to give out-so that you pass it out on them. That is not friendship, that is BETRAYAL. If such are considered friends, one does not need enemies! One extends further, when they feel safe and sound, when they take time to know others. So far, that has failed me in here.

 

[KStoner6tb]

^You just plant the seeds for an entirely new tree. Forget olive, I'd go with a yaupon...real sturdy

 

[hoopyfrood]

I am an open minded person, but I speak metaphorically here, obviously and what I am trying to say is, that people can fear the unkown, and regardless how open you are to accept-they are skeptical and suspitious unless you pour out your guts and be stripped naked (soul wise-and who you are fully). Thier skepticism goes beyond imagination, that regardless how much love and acceptance you give out, they don't get to shed their skepticism unless they strip you off your dignity, unless they have full control. Though you may have reasons to keep certain privacy to protect others that one affects their life, they don't respect that, all they want is unending control. Ignorance, stubborness wanting full control, though you respect their own privacy and accept them, their attacks for no apparant reason on a contiuous basis, regardless how much love and acceptance you may have and give out-in the end, your sensitivity is hurt, and the only way to get on top of it emotionally and respecting youself-besides what they try to do-bear it, you start attacking back-you end up becoming the one hurting them just as much as they hurt you. Ignorance or stubborness? I call it ignorance! Your authentic self tells you about a person, especially when you hear them speaking, one does not need to strip them to the bone. I am on purpose being perhaps enigmatic here, purposely being metaphorical.
I admire always, your need to clarify when you don't understand me, there is a beauty behind that-in you!!n I hope I am making a llittle more sense now? Hopefully!

Ah, yes, that was quite a bit more explicit than the previous metaphor.

I think I agree with you here, for the most part. I understand how hard it can be, how annoying, how frustrating, and how seemingly feckless it can be. But do know this: while there are a LOT of people who just don't know how impulsive and primitive their unconscious mind can be, there are still those who recognize that 'flaw' in all of us, and try to help themselves.

I think the fact that not everyone is 'ignorant' (in the sense that we're using it), keeps me from giving up on everyone. And someday, I hope to "convert" friends to that mindset. Unfortunately, with the mindset I have, comes the feeling of superiority, which also keeps me from giving up. And that's exactly the impulsive and primitive process that everyone else has, I guess.

There is no friendship without respect for the other, without TRUST!

I think the only way to truly understand this is having experienced it. Those words aren't just blather, they're the truest words on this page. When you lose trust with someone you love... it's probably one of the most emotionally painful things that can happen.










p.s. speaking of blather! I'm doing it!

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

^You just plant the seeds for an entirely new tree. Forget olive, I'd go with a yaupon...real sturdy

Just trust you huh? New approaches that are suitable for you-the way you want it-not accepting every person with their individuality-but even placing rules as to how.

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

Ah, yes, that was quite a bit more explicit than the previous metaphor.

I think I agree with you here, for the most part.

I understand how hard it can be, how annoying, how frustrating, and how seemingly feckless it can be.

But do know this: while there are a LOT of people who just don't know how impulsive and primitive their unconscious mind can be, there are still those who recognize that 'flaw' in all of us, and try to help themselves.

I think the fact that not everyone is 'ignorant' (in the sense that we're using it), keeps me from giving up on everyone. And someday, I hope to "convert" friends to that mindset. Unfortunately, with the mindset I have, comes the feeling of superiority, which also keeps me from giving up. And that's exactly the impulsive and primitive process that everyone else has, I guess. <<You display-self responsibility!

I think the only way to truly understand this is having experienced it.
Those words aren't just blather, they're the truest words on this page.
When you lose trust with someone you love... it's probably one of the most emotionally painful things that can happen.

p.s. speaking of blather! I'm doing it!

If this gave me the oportunity to see this part of you I had not come to see before-the pain and frustration was worth it-to hear you speak as you are doing here! Thank you for your beautiful wisdom and depth!
We are of a similar depth and wise thinking-it feels good-to feel that!!

 

[hoopyfrood]

If this gave me the oportunity to see this part of you I had not come to see before-the pain and frustration was worth it-to hear you speak as you are doing here! Thank you for your beautiful wisdom and depth!
We are of a similar depth and wise thinking-it feels good-to feel that!!

That's what I love about the internet. You can connect with so many people with similar interests/experiences, and not have a face to judge behind the name.

 

[Max Power]

I'm reminded of author Robert Anton Wilson's very hardcore agnosticism, in which he encouraged people to doubt absolutely everything they take for granted as true, and to always be willing to accept the possibility that things are far from what they seem.

"I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions." R.A. Wilson

His whole notion of 'the map is not the territory' (originally Alfred Korzybski, although I heard it from Wilson first ) describes the idea that the world you see isn't necessarily that which truly exists but rather it's a world that your brain has interpreted as being the world that truly exists. The words and symbols we use to describe our world, aren't indicative of what the world truly is.

OP, it's good to question everything. You learn a lot that way. Now, whether or not you believe your current view of reality accurately gives you a picture of what really exists is a moot point. There's no sense in walking around with a dreaded feeling of hopelessness, wondering to yourself what is the point of everything since you will never know the truth.

You're here on this planet whether your like it or not. Make the best of it using the tools you have - your eyes, ears, hands, etc. Good luck and don't worry so much. It's bad for you.

 

[Raw Evil]

the world you see isn't necessarily that which truly exists but rather it's a world that your brain has interpreted as being the world that truly exists.
...
whether or not you believe your current view of reality accurately gives you a picture of what really exists is a moot point. There's no sense in walking around with a dreaded feeling of hopelessness, wondering to yourself what is the point of everything since you will never know the truth.
...
You're here on this planet whether your like it or not. Make the best of it using the tools you have - your eyes, ears, hands, etc.

^ That.

Being one step removed from whatever we might call an "objective reality" doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. All it means is that at every stage of our lives, we should be prepared to face the possibility that all is not as it seems.

 

[Mjäll]

Trust your friends!

Show them your trust.

But don't believe anything and everything they say. What could be more sane than talking to them about this? Tell them why you're in doubt, and make sure they know you appreciate them as friends but have chosen to lead a life of skepticism.

Personally I think the most ignorant thing is to pretend that you can be free of ignorance. I'd rather just believe what I want but challenge my brain as often as I can!

 

[moonyham]

people who dought everything in my books, are complete and utter morons. I know someone, and i wont call them a friend, ill call them an acquaintance, that always ALWAYS questions everything. You cant simply say something and expect them to believe it, they question absolutely everything, ask for evidence, proof, books, what ever to make sure its true. Its irritating and i dont hang out with him much mostly because of this trait. Its plain ANNOYING, and its basically calling me a liar to my face.

 

[Max Power]

people who dought everything in my books, are complete and utter morons. I know someone, and i wont call them a friend, ill call them an acquaintance, that always ALWAYS questions everything. You cant simply say something and expect them to believe it, they question absolutely everything, ask for evidence, proof, books, what ever to make sure its true. Its irritating and i dont hang out with him much mostly because of this trait. Its plain ANNOYING, and its basically calling me a liar to my face.

Don't read into things so much?