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Avoiding Ignorance

moonyham said:
people who dought everything in my books, are complete and utter morons.

I know someone, and i wont call them a friend, ill call them an acquaintance, that always ALWAYS questions everything.

You cant simply say something and expect them to believe it, they question absolutely everything, ask for evidence, proof, books, what ever to make sure its true.

Its irritating and i dont hang out with him much mostly because of this trait. Its plain ANNOYING, and its basically calling me a liar to my face.
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Ahhh, you speak from my place right now!
Thank you! So accurate right now!!

Where have you been all this time moonyham!! You had disappeared for a while! Well said! Yes, some people are perfectly described here! They gnaw at your soul! They suck your energy in trying to convince them for something that does not need convincing. They suck the oxygen out of your lungs, you go blue on the face, they discredit you upon their malignant skepticism which always turns into paranoid delusions. They are the ones losing in the end!:)
 
yeah... ok..

umm how do i know something? Well if i know something i know something.. i know the grass is green, why do i need to justify that with scientific evidence? Some things dont need to be questioned extensively.. its not my job to explain everything in the highest detail possible just because someone has major trust issues with people, humanity in general. Think how much time everyone would waste if we had to bring with us some sort of evidence to everything we said? What a ridiculous thing.
 
moonyham said:
yeah... ok..

umm how do i know something? Well if i know something i know something.. i know the grass is green, why do i need to justify that with scientific evidence? Some things dont need to be questioned extensively.. its not my job to explain everything in the highest detail possible just because someone has major trust issues with people, humanity in general. Think how much time everyone would waste if we had to bring with us some sort of evidence to everything we said? What a ridiculous thing.
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I feel I should explain myself at this point.

I don't question people's beliefs purely out of mistrust (only sometimes, heh). Most of the time, I am really just trying to make a point. The point is not that everything should be questioned, as - like you said - it becomes tiresome (for both parties) and is increasingly unnecessary as time goes on. My point is only that nothing should ever be presented as "not to be questioned". The reason 99.9999% of people accept consensus reality as fact, is because it is useful. Trusting that you see the same thing everyone else sees gets results. However, accepting that "what I see is always the same as what everyone else sees" is a path to short-sightedness, and means that any error will go undetected.

It is still possible, however, with this skeptic attitude to both make your own errors, and to follow others' errors. The key is to learn from these experiences - not to chalk them up to "pure chance", "bad karma" or "God's will" - but to acknowledge where the model in your head differs from the world it perceives, and adapt accordingly.

In short, the message is not necessarily "question everything", as much as "give yourself permission to question anything".
 
yeah but you know 'making a point' for what reason? Id say the majority of people have no problem questioning anything.. its just annoying when people do it alot, as if to say 'why should i believe you?'. I dont say dont question shit.. just do question ME when i say something, atleast not all the time...im not a fucking book or a school teacher, theres library's and the internet - use them.
 
moonyham said:
yeah but you know 'making a point' for what reason?
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Do I need one? I have yet to find a reason why I or anyone else might exist, which I find to be a more pressing matter. Perhaps out of curiosity or even maybe for entertainment value; I am interested in how people respond to delving into the "world of the unknown", so to speak - to see how others deal with being in a situation where they don't know any answers. Some change the topic, some become irritated, some express a desire to search for truth. Some seem not to have time for such things, and dismiss my line of questioning as a frivolous exercise or even malice (to the extent of me seemingly wanting to infuriate them), which is certainly never the case.

Since I have decided to aim for a meaningful direction in life (somewhat paradoxically from an existential perspective, but I digress), I try to gain as much knowledge as I can. Rather than focusing on what I know (which I apply on a regular basis to various aspects of my life, including work), I focus on doing my very best to learn about things I don't know. This does tend to focus my day-to-day attention on such things, and as a result my conversations do sometimes drift onto unrelated subjects.

Id say the majority of people have no problem questioning anything..
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Really? I would argue the opposite. Mob mentality / groupthink, patriotism and martyrism are the first few examples that spring to mind.

its just annoying when people do it alot, as if to say 'why should i believe you?'. I dont say dont question shit.. just do question ME when i say something, atleast not all the time...
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Might I ask why not? Are you too busy in your life to occasionally take a step back and try to see where it all fits in? If you have time to discuss philosophy on an Internet forum in your spare time, I would imagine otherwise. It's nothing personal - I am only trying to get everyone whom with I interact to think a little bit more.

im not a fucking book or a school teacher, theres library's and the internet - use them.
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I'm glad you're not a school teacher, since most of the ones I've met are neither thinkers, nor capable of teaching others to think for themselves. I do use other resources, on a frequent basis. I just like to get a direct response - "straight from the horse's mouth" to use a particularly disgusting turn of phrase. I guess I need the reassurance that I'm not the only person on the planet capable of independent thought.

people who dought everything in my books, are complete and utter morons
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Perhaps these people are simply sick of:

A: Being told things that contradict logic and/or reason, and
B: Being expected to take these things as fact without questioning them.
 
see how theres a question at the begging of almost all of your sentences. :/ i cant be fucked honestly, go read a book.
 
^ Moonyham, kindly lose the attitude. I think Raw Evil explained his rationale and methods for avoiding ignorance pretty clearly and calmly.
 
Raw Evil said:
Perhaps these people are simply sick of:

A: Being told things that contradict logic and/or reason, and
B: Being expected to take these things as fact without questioning them.
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You don't have to act out every thought.

Questioning society and comforting thoughts is something I do myself aswell, but expressing this can become problematic. It's tough.
 
Mjäll said:
You don't have to act out every thought.

Questioning society and comforting thoughts is something I do myself aswell, but expressing this can become problematic. It's tough.
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That is something I wrestle with frequently - keeping my mouth shut when it's in my best interests. I justify it to myself as "being a free spirit" but really it has more to do with poor impulse control.
 
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I believe the idiom that ignorance is bliss, so I reject the premise of this question. With knowledge comes power, of course, but that is only within the context of human society. I believe that most animals, particularly domesticated ones, are happier than the average human being. Overall, I view the experience of reality, at least for humans, as an unfortunate condition. Knowledge simply brings one closer to the misery.

But even if you believe reality is positive, there is an obvious frustration inherent in learning: the inability to attain total knowledge. We are like lines in calculus forever approaching a coordinate but never reaching it. Striving for the impossible precludes satisfaction, particularly when the goal is a comprehension of darkness.
 
leiphos said:
Overall, I view the experience of reality, at least for humans, as an unfortunate condition. Knowledge simply brings one closer to the misery.

But even if you believe reality is positive, there is an obvious frustration inherent in learning: the inability to attain total knowledge. We are like lines in calculus forever approaching a coordinate but never reaching it. Striving for the impossible precludes satisfaction, particularly when the goal is a comprehension of darkness.
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If you choose to see it that way then that is your prerogative, however I try to stick to the optimistic. My knowledge helps me reduce the suffering I experience in life. Therefore, the more knowledge I possess, the more potential there is for happiness (or, at a minimum, contentment) in my life.
 
And the wise man said: All that I know is that I know nothing.

You can never aim to seek THE truth, you can only hope to seek truth true enough to fit your personal need at the time needed. Terence Mckenna talks about this, he said to seek what is "true enough"

Moreover, when somebody "knows" something, they dont really "know" it, all they have is a higher understanding of that subject than they did before, but that's not "knowing" it. Allow me to demonstrate; not too long ago I was contemplating a serious problem of mine, I was in a situation where I was unsure on somebodies opinion about me. I was in an internal conflict and battling myself, when I told myself "I dont think, I know". After saying that I caught myself, because I love to think, and for me to say the words " I dont think" put me in a position to investigate the choice of words I used. Thats where I came to this understanding: When you say you know something, you stop thinking about it, and when you stop thinking about it your understanding of that subject will never increase. However, if you dont think that you know anything about it, you put yourself in a position where you will find understanding on that subject to the highest degree, this is called fascination.

In summary, never seek THEE truth, seek what is TRUE ENOUGH, and second, never put yourself in a position where you think you know everything, because that is most ignorant of all.
 
Raw Evil said:
If you choose to see it that way then that is your prerogative, however I try to stick to the optimistic. My knowledge helps me reduce the suffering I experience in life. Therefore, the more knowledge I possess, the more potential there is for happiness (or, at a minimum, contentment) in my life.
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I tend to agree. Overall I think the Buddha was right: most of life's many forms of suffering are a direct result of ignorance about what you're up against. The better you know yourself and the world you inhabit, the more you can do to mitigate a surprising amount of pain.
 
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