Australian police charge MDMA dealer with "Trafficking a drug of dependence" ???

webbykevin

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
1,719
Australian police charge MDMA dealer with "Trafficking a drug of dependence" ???

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-...rugs-at-melbourne-listen-out-festival/5001086

Police have seized about $10,000 worth of the illicit drug MDMA at a music festival in Melbourne on Saturday.

Victoria Police used sniffer dogs to target drugs at the Listen Out festival in the Botanic Gardens.

They made 13 arrests and charged a 28-year-old man from Brighton with trafficking a drug of dependence.

He has been bailed to face court at a later date.

The 12 others were diverted into drug treatment programs.

Police also seized cocaine, ecstasy and prescription drugs.
 
a drug of dependence

Just a term used to describe prescription medicines that have a recognised therapeutic need but also a higher potential for misuse, abuse and dependence.

Drugs of dependence include

Opioids

Morphine (e.g. MsContin®, Kapanol®, MsMono®, Anamorph®, Sevredol®)
Oxycodone (e.g. OxyContin®, Endone®, OxyNorm®, Proladone®)
Oxycodone/naloxone (Targin®)
Methadone (e.g. Physeptone®, methadone liquid)
Hydromorphone (Jurnista®, Dilaudid®, Dilaudid HP®)
Buprenorphine (Norspan® patches, Temgesic®, Suboxone®, Subutex®)
Fentanyl (Durogesic®, Denpax®, Actiq®)
Codeine
Pethidine
Tapentadol (Palexia®)
Stimulants

Dexamphetamine
Methylphenidate (Ritalin®, Concerta®, Attenta®)
Cocaine
Sedatives

Flunitrazepam (Hypnodorm®)
Other

Ketamine (Ketalar®)
What you need to know about drugs of dependence

Prescribing drugs of dependence
Recognising and handling drug dependent patients
Legal controls over medicines including Legal obligations for prescribing, supplying, administering or manufacturing drugs of dependence
Appealing a decision made by the Drugs of Dependence Unit
Treatment options for opioid dependence:
Opioid Dependence Substitution Program
Suboxone Opioid Substitution Program

This doesn't really deserve it's own thread imo, but whatever. A better place for it would have been either the AUS DD Drug busts thread -

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/694770-The-Aus-NZ-Asian-Drug-Busts-Mega-Thread-Number-Five

Or the drug bust thread here in DiTM.
 
Their lucky they weren't in the US. It would be 13 jailed.

No, that is not a safe assumption to make... many states have pretty successful "drug court" programs. Lets deal with facts here.

In fact, it could be argued that Australia's drug laws are harsher then the US. I could be wrong, but I have never heard of sniffer dogs being brought into festivals/concerts in the US. You do realize that Australia just elected a very very conservative party as the majority correct?
 
Last edited:
No, that is not a safe assumption to make... many states have pretty successful "drug court" programs. Lets deal with facts here.

In fact, it could be argued that Australia's drug laws are harsher then the US. I could be wrong, but I have never heard of sniffer dogs being brought into festivals/concerts in the US. You do realize that Australia just elected a very very conservative party as the majority correct?

Both parties are shit as far as I'm concerned, I didn't realise that the Coalition (tony abbott) was anymore conservative than labour (rudd). But I dont really know much about politics, or care for it too much.

Drug sniffer dogs and certain amounts of police numbers per people attending are required by law here when putting on large scale dance parties and festivals, at least in NSW anyway. Back in the early to mid '90's this was unheard of, with events sometimes having thousands and thousands of people and the police only rocking up when they had been informed by people who were complaining of the noise and stuff (or they got got tipped off or had other intel). I think the new rules and regulations came into effect sometime after Anna Wood died from water intoxication after sneaking into an over 18's nightclub which was holding a rave 1995 when she had an E, so possibly a few yrs after that. So we've had that here for ages now.

But regarding the drug laws here compared to the USA, it's hard to say, I guess some things really vary state to state, I think we have it ok generally, there's no three strikes and you are out for life rule, some major busts and repeat offenders sometimes get 20-30 yrs, but I think 'life' for drug imports or dealing is pretty rare. Life isnt usually life here anyway afaik, usually they seem to appeal and get good behaviour releases and stuff. Just from some of my observations, I could be wrong about some of this. I like how we have the cannabis caution system (in most states I think) for people who get caught with smaller amounts of weed, I know in my state its anything under 1/2 an ounce. I think the same thing should be applied for small amounts of any chemicals, for personal use you shouldn't have to goto court at all and you should get three cautions or something like that before you have to.

Here's an article with some of our bigger busts -

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...00m-drug-seizure/story-fncynjr2-1226439104619

Until this, the biggest drug bust in Australia was the seizure of $440 million of ecstasy found in a shipment of tomato cans in 2008 which led to the jailing of drugs mastermind Pasquale Barbaro in May this year.

Barbaro, 50, and his cousin Saverio Zirilli, 55, were hit with minimum 30-year and 18-year sentences respectively over the international drug ring conspiracy involving 4.4 tonnes of ecstasy and almost 100kg of cocaine.
 
Last edited:
Both parties are shit.

Drug sniffer dogs and certain amounts of police numbers per people attending are required by law here when putting on large scale dance parties and festivals, at least in NSW anyway. Back in the early to mid '90's this was unheard of, with events sometimes having thousands and thousands of people and the police only rocking up when they had been informed by people who were complaining of the noise and stuff (or the gots got tipped off or had other intel). I think the new rules and regulations came into effect sometime after Anna Wood died from water intoxication after sneaking into an over 18's nightclub which was holding a rave 1995, so possibly a few yrs after that. So we've had that here for ages now.

But regarding the drug laws, it's hard to say, I think we have it ok, there's no three strikes and you are out for life rule, some major busts and repeat offenders sometimes get 20-30 yrs, but I think 'life' for drug imports or dealing is pretty rare. Life isnt usually life here anyway afaik, usually they seem to appeal and get good behaviour releases and stuff. Just from some of my observations, I could be wrong about some of this.

Here's an article with some of our bigger busts -

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...00m-drug-seizure/story-fncynjr2-1226439104619

"Three strikes you are you" (three felonies and life in California state) is no longer law in the United States, this occurred a couple months ago.... This was one of the major points during the Obama admins's changes to the mandatory min laws. Not saying one is better then the other but to suggest that one is highly preferable to another is pushing it imo. To be honest, I really do not see that huge of a difference between US and AUS drug laws.

Like I said in another thread, US drug laws are harsh and more so then some western EU countries for sure. But to act like the US has the harshest drug laws in the world is a big longshot. Our prison industrial complex is a major issues, but that has more to do then just our drug laws.

For the record, I have had friends get caught with drugs by officers and just let go. Really, it comes down to the cop here. Of course, other things come into play, location, race, ethnicity, type of drug etc.

Like I said, we are more similar then different.
 
Last edited:
But regarding the drug laws, it's hard to say, I think we have it ok, there's no three strikes and you are out for life rule, some major busts and repeat offenders sometimes get 20-30 yrs, but I think 'life' for drug imports or dealing is pretty rare. Life isnt usually life here anyway afaik, usually they seem to appeal and get good behaviour releases and stuff. Just from some of my observations, I could be wrong about some of this.

We have a 'natural life' prison term, it's just pretty rare to see someone cop that for less that multiple/mass murder or killing an officer. Life in prison is 25 years on average in NSW.

It's all over the place, but if you murder someone unimportant you can expect anywhere from 10-25 years in prison. Aggravated murder, murder of officers/elected officials or persons under 18 will probably net you a 'natural life' term. Drug trafficking can net you up to 25 years as well.

I don't think that our drug laws are harsher, it's just easier for them to make examples of us and control (to an extent) the flow of drugs here. One major downfall of living on an isolated island with no countries physically bordering us.
 
"Three strikes you are you" (three felonies and life in California state) is no longer law in the United States, this occurred a couple months ago.... This was one of the major points during the Obama admins's changes to the mandatory min laws. Not saying one is better then the other but to suggest that one is highly preferable to another is pushing it imo. To be honest, I really do not see that huge of a difference between US and AUS drug laws.

Oh thats good about the three strikes thing. I saw some doco not too long ago (what was it hrmm) 'the house I live in' i think? where some dude copped it.

So does that mean the people who copped 3 strikes and life, now get re-tried? Or do they still have to do the life?
 
Touche Phactor, I have had some bad experiences with LE so I'm a little prejudice. And sniffer dogs at festivals, I see that in our future.

We will see, that would suck though. I have over a decade of experience with shows/raves/festivals and he never seen sniffer dogs run around. In fact, I am shocked when I see PO at events (certain venues in my area will have on at the gate). However, that cop is usually pretty cool and mainly there for safety reasons. I have to admit that my personal attendance at these type of events in nowhere near what it used to be. I still get out, but I am to old to keep the candle burning at both ends like I used too.

The increase of the presence of EMTs is more of a concern for me IMO.

Have a great night brother.
 
Oh thats good about the three strikes thing. I saw some doco not too long ago (what was it hrmm) 'the house I live in' i think? where some dude copped it.

So does that mean the people who copped 3 strikes and life, now get re-tried? Or do they still have to do the life?

Not sure, but from my understanding likely not. It will likely open appeals A guy or girl with three weed felonies should think about it.

Keep in mind, the infamous "three strikes law" only existed in Cali. The Obama admin basically used federal power to say "fuck that" to the strikeout law. Of course, they were only able to do so because the majority of citizens supported something like this.

And I have meet plenty of dickhead racist cops for the record. I know some good ones as well.
 
Keep in mind, the infamous "three strikes law" only existed in Cali.

Oh, I didnt know that, I thought it was in alot of places over there, I would have guessed places like Texas. Cali has relaxed weed stuff going on now doesnt it? So that seems weird to go from that to that so quickly. I guess changes in government or something, anyway all a bit off topic, thanks for your replies.
 
^ Considering it would be near impossible to ACTUALLY become physically dependant on the drug, which to me is what should define the term, I think it hardly can be considered a "Drug of Dependence". No more so than LSD or alcohol. There has to be a line somewhere if you're going to make the distinction, and I hardly think they thought this through while sentencing.
 
Oh, I didnt know that, I thought it was in alot of places over there, I would have guessed places like Texas. Cali has relaxed weed stuff going on now doesnt it? So that seems weird to go from that to that so quickly. I guess changes in government or something, anyway all a bit off topic, thanks for your replies.

California is a leader in incarcerating individuals in our nation, but they also have the largest population. It is important to realize Cali had a long period of conservative dominance, they middle class really bough into supply side economics in that area. The area of the country I live in had already started losing lots of work to outsourcing, so it is a different story here. Timeframe is occurring from late 80s to mid 2000s. Economics have always been a huge motivator in the US, but Nowadays, younger people (my generation) also see social issues as almost as important. This is different from our parents (who were/are making more cash then we will be able too).

Things have changed in Cali (a huge reason being the abandonment of the GOP be Latin Americans). Texas is all sorts of fucked up imo. They execute more individuals down there then the rest of the country combined.

This is coming from study and policy polling. I am a northern midwest boy, closest to Chicago. I am actually closer to Canada then I am places like Teaxs and Cali. The US is such a diverse nation... part of what makes us so interesting IMO. (Not sure where you are from brother).
 
"Three strikes you are you" (three felonies and life in California state) is no longer law in the United States, this occurred a couple months ago.... This was one of the major points during the Obama admins's changes to the mandatory min laws. Not saying one is better then the other but to suggest that one is highly preferable to another is pushing it imo. To be honest, I really do not see that huge of a difference between US and AUS drug laws.

Like I said in another thread, US drug laws are harsh and more so then some western EU countries for sure. But to act like the US has the harshest drug laws in the world is a big longshot. Our prison industrial complex is a major issues, but that has more to do then just our drug laws.

For the record, I have had friends get caught with drugs by officers and just let go. Really, it comes down to the cop here. Of course, other things come into play, location, race, ethnicity, type of drug etc.

Like I said, we are more similar then different.

Man that shit just ain't true, I admit some states are better than others but the US overall is fucked for drug laws compared to Australia.

There was an article in this forum recently about a dude given 20 years in Louisiana for his 4th time being caught with cannabis (15 point something grams iirc), where I live in Australia if I am caught with up to 50 grams twice I wont even have to go to court, I guarantee I could get caught twice more and unless I had convictions for other shit I would not be seeing gaol. I know people caught selling weed 3 or 4 times (more than one, and I feel obliged to point out they typically came from a lower socio economic background, something which from my observations increases the odds of you being fucked legally in the States) who never did any time, tell me how many states in the US that shit is going to fly? You could argue that is one case in one State, and that is true, but to me it still says a LOT. That shit would never ever EVER happen in Australia period in any way, shape or form. To me it says a lot about a country's legal system, whether or not it is the norm. I would say someplace you have to really be working hard to see gaol for cannabis whatsoever compared to a place you might see 20 years and/or lose your car is much, much less favourable.

I have seen episodes of cops set in Florida where they set up fake drug corners to sell (yes, the cops were selling to users to bust them, unbelievable!) cannabis to random motorists. Every single person who bought some was buying like a gram or two, every single person had their vehicle seized as a result of this bust. This type of thing does NOT happen in Australia, it just doesn't. I have never heard of anyone losing their car or anything for anything less than dealing, and even in these cases I think it was only because they couldn't prove they acquired the car through legitimate means, which means that I could get caught dealing and because I can prove I paid for my car with other money they can't touch it.

I have never even heard of somebody getting time for dealing in Australia the first time they got caught doing it (referring to hard drugs this time, not weed), and again, I have known a number of people to be caught up in this, a good number with minor prior convictions for assault or theft or drug possession to boot. Not saying it doesn't happen but I would venture to say from my experience that a suspended sentence is typically the most they would be facing for a less than commercial quantity.

There was an article printed I think last year in The Herald Sun or The Age that claimed about a quarter of people convicted of large scale commercial cannabis (as in like million dollar crops) growing do not see gaol time. I am having trouble finding that article now but I distinctly remember showing it to my mum in an unsuccessful attempt to get her to let me grow a few in the backyard. lol

You really have to be working hard to get much time at all in Australia, even rapists often only receive a few years or so. I think in many ways our prison system is too lax, it is just fortunate that this same thing applies to drug laws as well. I don't really like the fact they give child molesters and violent criminals suspended sentences and/or otherwise short prison terms but it is the reality here. I am sorry but Australia and the US drug laws, and laws in general, are like night and day, that isn't always for the better in Australia's case but for drugs it is 100% unquestionably better.

If you are dealing in drugs that are perceived to be hard like cocaine or heroin in large quantities then yes the difference between the US and Australia is probably lessened significantly, however I still think the US would take the cake on harshness in these cases without even trying. Still though, we will throw draconian over a decade sentences at people for a few kilograms of hard drugs, of that there is no question. This is a minority of cases though, and as a recreational drug user I think someone would have a hard time arguing that one would be better off legally in the States than in Australia, there might be a handful of States that are not any worse than here but a handful of States out of fifty is a huge minority...

You also have to consider the environment you are doing your time in, there are definitely hard facilities in Australia but I wouldn't say they are the majority, although I admit I could know more about our prison system than I do, I really don't think they compare in violence to a lot of the facilities in the US and gangs are nowhere near as much of a problem. I personally know where I would rather do my time.

I admit most of my knowledge and experiences is based in Victoria, which is relatively lax even by Australia's standards as I understand it, but shit really isn't much worse in the rest of Aus. I think Western Australia and Queensland are the two worst but even then I believe these states implement cannabis cautioning systems and people are very unlikely to see gaol for their first or second offence on a drug crime so long as it isn't major.
 
Last edited:
Louisiana is one of the toughest states legally and most conservative ones. Furthermore, it is based on French Common law and thus convictions only require 10-2. Bad example.

Said nothing about the prisons. Again, the US and Aus are closer then further apart. Culturally too...
 
You did say about the laws being not much harsher, don't you think that not only how long you get is relevant to harshness but also where you are going? 5 years in a minimum security facility where you get a tv in your room and all sorts of shit is not the same as 5 years of lockdown X amount of hours per day and yard time with hardened criminals. I think that how tough the facility you end up in is almost as relevant to how harsh a punishment is as the length of time.

It is easy to hide behind Louisiana as "one of the toughest states legally and most conservative ones" my question would be, how many states out of 50 are tough and conservative and how many adopt drug policy as lax as Australia's? The point is we don't have tough conservative States, it doesn't matter where the fuck you are in Australia you are not going down for draconian ass shit like that. I like how you didn't answer my point about seizing vehicles in Florida for simple possession, which the fucking police are apparently allowed to entrap you into. I don't think even the most extreme examples are bad examples if there are numerous in the US and not a single one in Australia, kinda suggests a major difference in the powers the State has to incarcerate you over drug offences which is the point we are debating...

I would seriously like some realistic examples of how US and Australian drug laws hardly differ in severity, it would surprise me if you could come up with more than one or two, if that. I am positive that I could give you many examples on how they differ greatly, and feel that I have already provided several. As I acknowledged in an earlier post if you are trafficking hard drugs in commercial quantities the difference is lessened but that is hardly representative of a majority of those charged with drug offences.

I am not having a go at the US or Americans by the way, I just think it is a bit of a joke to compare your prison system to ours in terms of severity. You definitely have some positive things going on in the drug sense that we don't like medical cannabis, legal cannabis in a couple states, doctors seem less stingy about providing potential recreational drugs like benzos and opiates to those who need them, etc. Why not focus on some of these positive aspects as opposed to trying to make up that you are ahead of where you really are in terms of sentencing for drug offenders, I really don't see how it is helpful to delude yourself into believing things are just as bad elsewhere when they are not.
 
Last edited:
I do not really think that you realize the variety and cultural differences in the United States... are not some of your states and territories different in Australia?

By the way, many dealers of "soft drugs" in small amounts avoid prison or go to specific treatment jails (which are actually very effective) in the US.

But this is going nowhere. Again, I am not talking about our prison system. The United States prison system is fucking terrible and needs dramatic reform. We are starting to see that though. Here is some very positive news from the US Attorney General acknowledging the problem...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOe4EqP5Bjk

That being said, the federal government can do one thing, but states like Louisiana are more conservative and thus going to have harsher punishment. And like I stated, Louisiana operates on a different legal code then the 49 other states. As for "conservative vs progressive states"... I would suggest you look at electoral maps. There is a reason Presidential elections are decided by a few "swing states" in the US. The south tends to be conservative while the north tends to be progressive.

Anyways, this is going nowhere and getting way off topic. Thanks for the conversation.
 
Top