astral travel

[rickolasnice]

That's pretty flimsy. What evidence (or other reasons) do you have that - despite the fact they were clinically dead - they had significant brain activity? It sounds like you want to believe what you want to believe, so you assume supporting facts that back up your agenda. (I'm not taking sides, either way.)

You seem as blind\stubborn with your scepticism as meth is with his literal interpretations of scripture.

You think the brain stops working when the heart stops beating?

Fair play you may be right, I don't know.

Oh, wait..

http://scitechdaily.com/study-shows-electrical-activity-in-the-brain-after-clinical-death/

 

[ForEverAfter]

any study worth anything has found no evidence people are actually leaving their bodies

What evidence could possibly be found, aside from statements that people like you instantly shoot down. And don't say somebody could fly to a particular place that they stated they were going to fly to before projecting, and read a note left for them by a sceptic. First of all, that's still not sufficient evidence to prove anything. And, second, you wouldn't believe it unless you wrote the note.

Many have tried, nobody has succeeded, surprisingly enough.

It's not surprising, at all.

How can it not be possible to prove that someone is actually leaving their body and SEEING things that exist in the material world? Isn't that like saying it's impossible to prove someone can see?

To determine whether or not someone can see, all you have to do is show them something and ask them to describe it. Astral projection is much more complicated than that. First of all, it relies on the flight being controlled/planned on a normal conscious level. Second, it relies on the subjects actually being able to do it. Third, it relies on something specific to observe that they can't possibly have observed before projection.

You think the brain stops working when the heart stops beating?

Don't put words in my mouth.

...

Why do you spend so much time on a spirituality forum shooting shit down that you haven't experienced and don't know much about, by offering links/abstracts from Google/Wikipedia? You don't even seem interested in astral projection as a phenomenon. This isn't a science forum or a sceptic forum. Are you just trying to inflate your ego?

The studies in your abstract were from 1887-1938, and they had no evidence attached to them whatsoever. Just theories that scientists have come up with about what astral might be.

It wasn't even concisely written:

Scientists consider the OBE to be an experience from a mental state, like a dream or an altered state of consciousness without recourse to the paranormal.

What, all scientists?
Nonsense.

There are scientists that don't believe in evolution, FFS.

The 1 million dollars comment was referencing James Randi's prize for anyone that can prove the existence of the paranormal

Yeah and the other comment you made was "prove it, then, and go collect your Nobel prize!" or something like that. I, too, officially offer anyone who definitively proves that God exists or definitively proves that ghosts exist or definitively proves that astral projection is possible: my entire net worth. And, I'd be happy to sign a legal document stating exactly that. Does that mean that none of these things exist? No, it doesn't.

Science doesn't disprove spirituality, across the board. (Pun intended.)

Can we not make this thread into another mindless Science vs. Spirituality debate?

 

[-=SS=-]

The problem with Rick and others in his mindset is that they make the false demand that these claims be proved according to the laws of materialistic science. We're talking about phenomena here that whilst it may have a link to a biological component in the body is inherently non-material. You can never expect a proof of a non-material phenomena to be proven using material standards, it just isn't possible! You can not measure a non-material dimension using a ruler or scale from a material dimension because you can't take it there to do any measuring!

Using astral travel as an example we're talking about a phenomena that is taking place in another dimension for starters. Second, the kind of astral projection I'm referring to is not what is commonly ascribed as being astral projection.. wandering around this world is real-time OBE, which is achieved by detaching the mind from the body, though this not necessarily happening in a mechanical/physical way.. more just taking the mind into the existing space-time fabric and exploring it like you would explore a roll of film data. Astral projection is something entirely different where you are literally IN another dimension.. it is what you experience on NN-DMT.. and you don't take much of "you" with you, just your essence and the power of observation. It is incredibly difficult to remember the experience and it fades so fast because there is no reference point for the brain at all, the brain does not compute that dimension, so only the mind can remember it. Without the physical imprint on the brain the memory is incredibly fleeting. Real-time OBE's are different because there are reference points, however the longer the experience the more trouble the brain has integrating and imprinting it.

 

[rickolasnice]

Can we not make this thread into another mindless Science vs. Spirituality debate?

Yip.