"Ask the Muslim sympathiser" ;)

[Morrison's Lament]

I really have nothing much to add to Mahan Atma's points, which are excellent as always.

I very much doubt we will be able to convince people like Pottedmeat in particular and also SoHiAllTheTime that these people aren't "out to get anyone that isn't like them" - because that is the image of Islam that has been burned into their soul.

99.9999% of Muslims don't give a flying fuck what you do - you can worship a baby monkey for all they care care - as long as your people STOP FUCKING WITH THEIR PEOPLE AND LEAVE THEM ALONE - to slightly paraphrase Doug Stanhope, one of my favorite stand-up comedians

Why are Muslims pissed off? Ever taken a look at why they are all split up into weird countries created fifty years ago and how mysteriously all the oil ended up under the feet of dictators who mysteriously received all their weapons and support from the West? It couldn't POSSIBLY be that there was any concerted effort to destabilize and fragment the Middle East and turn strategic areas over to puppet regimes? And it couldn'T POSSIBLY be that this has lead to resentment, could it?

Oh, and could it possibly be that the ONLY organized political force in the Muslim world that hasn't been outlawed is the Islamic one? What do you think happens when you support dictators that BAN all political expression? People go the Mosque for inspiration, and they hear from the Imams that political Islam is their only alternative to living under the Western puppets like Saddam, Karimov, Fahd, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (the Shah), Sadat, Mubarak or any of the dozens of other ones. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? Ally yourself with the enemies of the people and Islam at the same time - and the people will attack you in the name of Islam.

--- G.

 

[Morrison's Lament]

^Remember, given the subject being discussed that may happen a lot more than in everyday conversation. I dont always combine the two, trust me. But ALL of the terrorists were muslims, i am sorry, there isnt anything i can do to change that. As is, an extremely high % of terrorist groups around the world muslim, again i am sorry for that but it is true. I dont have anything agianst someone that is muslim or someone who believes in Islam at all. Try not to allow some of these debates and the things i say in them to be the only thing that you think i believe about muslims or Islam.

The reason so many "terrorist" groups are Islamic is the defition for the word "terrorist". Remember that the West has made sure almost no Islamic countries are represented by a government that represents the concerns of it's people. The vast majority of the people want change - so their ONLY outlet for that is a NON-GOVERNMENTAL unit. The current definition of "terrorist groups" seems to be pretty much along the lines of "fighters not working for any government". Yet, at the same time a lot of other killers get away with being called "rebels", "para-militaries", "criminal gangs", etc. - but as soon as a Muslim does anything he's a "terrorist".

In reality Muslims are responsible for a VAST MINORITY of non-government sponsored violence in the world - and that falls to a laughable figure when you factor in all violence caused by governments and states.

--- G.

 

[SoHiAllTheTime]

^To be honest it sounds to me that you are trying to place way too much blame on the west. But then again that is the way of the muslim world--blame the west.

Muslims dont care what we do as long as we arent supporting Israel ML, you know that. I am not saying ALL!!! muslims are that way, but a good % of them are.

I think that you and others take me wrong given the topic of discussion, i am a loving person of all humans and i understand the hardships that people in other countries go through, i really do, and i feel deeply for them all. I want you to know that...I would give the shirt off my back to a complete stranger, muslim, black, white, yellow, or blue. And maybe even Digital Duality too.

I think the religious leaders and leaders of the countries over there are brainwashing the people to hate americans and Jews so it takes away from the people hating them.

 

[Morrison's Lament]

Well, it WAS the West the colonized the entire world and drew all the lines on the maps and created all the modern countries that we are forcing people to fit into today. Too bad that the same people lived together for thousands of years - it serves our interest to draw a line right here in the middle of their tribe and split them into two countries with other tribes that they have nothing in common with.

We did it all over Asia and Africa - barely a single country today has naturally determined borders or makes sense from a cultural perspective. Nigeria comes to mind - I have friends there that basically refuse to speak to other Nigerians because they come from another tribe - but when they meet people from a neighbouring country from their tribe it's like meeting a long-lost brother. Same shit hapened in Iraq - they cut off a little piece that had tons of oil and called it "Kuwait" - found a bunch of well armed nomads who fancied becoming a hastily created new "royal family" - and that was that. Great new puppet country for us to bleed dry - fuck the people of "Iraq" , hell, there IS no Iraq except for the lines WE drew on a map anyway!"

We (the West) fucked it all up with the dividing and conquering, we did it on purpose, and no matter how little difference it makes in practical terms: we can't EVER allow ourselves to forget that.

--- G.

 

[fruitfly]

It's hardly surprising that at the center of the empire, the West/Global North (or, more precisely, the United States), one barely comprehends the legacies of genocide and exploitation which pave the streets we walk upon. The epicenter of the empire -- where the effects of colonialism, imperialism, and globalization are felt the most -- is in the Third World/Global South. And in the grand old tradition of blaming the victim, the devastation caused by the project of development is attributed not to inherent flaws within the Western-imposed schemes and systems, but to the colonized themselves: gee, we tried to modernize them and bring them into the global economy, so if it's not working it must be because they're overpopulated/too backward/too religious/too resistant to change/ or, the really easy one -- simply anti-Western, anti-American, anti-freedom, anti-democracy. Hm, wonder why ...

 

[zorn]

But ALL of the terrorists were muslims, i am sorry, there isnt anything i can do to change that. As is, an extremely high % of terrorist groups around the world muslim, again i am sorry for that but it is true. I dont have anything agianst someone that is muslim or someone who believes in Islam at all. Try not to allow some of these debates and the things i say in them to be the only thing that you think i believe about muslims or Islam.

SoHi --

But so what?

For the sake of argument assume 90% of terrorists were Moslems (way too high.) Then we have something like

99.999% of Christians aren't terrorists
99.994% of Moslems aren't terrorists.


There are just so few terrorists overall... it's crazy wrong to talk about 'Moslems' as if being a terrorist has something to do with the religion. Imagine if I said "white people say all this stuff about how they ain't racists, but look at their actions. What other race has cross-burners or blows up people's churches? I think they're just saying that to make themselves look good."

Same thing...

 

[zorn]

SoHi... I think you're probably right that a disproportionately large portion of terrorists are [people calling themselves] Moslems.

But maybe not as much as you think. Thinking of recent terrorism off the top of my head... there's Northern Ireland obviously, where the terrorists are Christians. The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka are Hindu -- you might not have heard of them, but they've killed a lot of people. They basically pioneered suicide-bombing; I think they've carried out more than all the Palestianian terrorist groups combined. The ETA (Basques) in Spain are Christians. Then there's a zillion Communist/Marxist/leftist groups like Shining Path, though they've subsided a lot lately.

We hear about Palestinian and Islamist groups so much more IMO in large part because people here can relate to Israel, Jerusalem, etc...