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ARTICLE: 'The art of punishment and shame'

(Wordy)

(Wordy)

Moderator: BAD
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Welcome to the community discussion thread for the article 'The art of punishment and shame' by Edward Hazel, also known as M!$TER-ED.

Ed's article was inspired by streaM Freak's recent article on shame, as well as the Bluelight recovery support forums.

Feel free to post your thoughts about the article, and/or any questions you might have.

Here in the Bluelight Article Discussion forum, we also invite article authors to respond to the discussion if they wish.

Constructive criticism and civil debate are welcome; however, abusive comments will not be tolerated. The Bluelight User Agreement (BLUA) applies, as it does across our site. :)
 
@M!$TER-ED I read it. Really reminds me of how traumatic events, like what happened to you at 15, are pivotal moments, that change how we are so deeply. And yet many decades later you are able to reflect on it, and recast it - perhaps it was your father's shame that burst out in that moment, and ended up being directed at you. Often people's behaviour is more about the person doing the behaviour than it is about the person on the receiving end, right?

Shame is - in my opinion- very destructive. If we can shine a brighter light on the things that are often pushed into the darkness due to shame, then as the light shines on, the shame (and the power of these shameful hidden things) gets less and less, until one day, the shame may just not be there anymore. Radical honesty, at least between trusted individuals in a relationship for example, is what I prefer - to really allow yourself, your whole self, to be vulnerable and to be seen. And to radically trust the other person to love you unconditionally. I know that's not something everyone has access to, but to practice giving and receiving that radical acceptance is truly a gift, in my view.

Thanks for sharing!
 
Tronica said:
@M!$TER-ED I read it. Really reminds me of how traumatic events, like what happened to you at 15, are pivotal moments, that change how we are so deeply. And yet many decades later you are able to reflect on it, and recast it - perhaps it was your father's shame that burst out in that moment, and ended up being directed at you. Often people's behaviour is more about the person doing the behaviour than it is about the person on the receiving end, right?

Shame is - in my opinion- very destructive. If we can shine a brighter light on the things that are often pushed into the darkness due to shame, then as the light shines on, the shame (and the power of these shameful hidden things) gets less and less, until one day, the shame may just not be there anymore. Radical honesty, at least between trusted individuals in a relationship for example, is what I prefer - to really allow yourself, your whole self, to be vulnerable and to be seen. And to radically trust the other person to love you unconditionally. I know that's not something everyone has access to, but to practice giving and receiving that radical acceptance is truly a gift, in my view.

Thanks for sharing!
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Thank you. It takes a long time to fully accept and love yourself, despite everything that life throws at you. It's not perfection; it is complete acceptance not only for yourself but also for everything. Love is the explanation I have.
 
Thank you for your intelligence and your honesty combined with your experience in presenting your article.

Great to read your ruminating voice always anytime. Thanks always. And my heart smiles with you !

@M!$TER-ED

💙☮️
 
Excellent piece @M!$TER-ED , I have grappled with a lot of shame in my life and It's continual process for me to work through it. This article was succinct and well written and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to write about your personal experience. I also agree with @Tronica in that your father may have been confronted with his own sense of internalized shame when he stumbled upon you and those magazines; sparking misdirected anger. It may have been a part of him that he himself loathed (right or wrong). Thanks for sharing.
 
We live in a shame society. It's a result of safetyism. Shame keeps things safer and the peasants crave safety, surveillance etc.
 
People are cruel, I've acted cruel to some people in my lifetime, I think it is human nature, which is not an excuse. Face it, with all that we have and capable of doing we sometimes myself including have acted poorly to my fellow humans.
 
M!$TER-ED said:
Innate cognitive foundations refer to the inherent structures and processes in the mind that influence how individuals learn and understand concepts, particularly in areas like mathematics and language. These foundations include innate abilities that interact with learned information to shape cognitive development.
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I see. So this is evolutionary psychology? I think, in behavior analysis, what you describe is named stimulus equivalence: The ability to learn things that are not directly taught, by putting "two and two together". Humans are supposedly the only creature on earth with this ability. The concept is used to explain how human aquire language to such advanced level. I belive it includes math...

Nice writeup btw.
 
Thank you for sharing your insight and personal experience (thank fuck this has never happened to me, seems like there actually are some pros to my constant edginess and alertness). I like how you explain how shaming and manipulation can be exploited and even falsely labeled as "punishment", and how vulnerable we are as humans to this kind of shitty behavior when we are young. Would recommend other bluelighters to read it as it can help you reflect on certain experiences in a different view. Certain experiences leave us with a strong sense of "something is wrong with me" and noone is immune to these kind of thoughts which are often completely undue and even life altering, especially at a young age. This article shows that these kind of thoughts and negative moral related emotions are completely natural and a common occurence, but they aren't set in stone as it is always possible to learn to see things in a different view. On a different note parents or other strong authoritative figures might sometimes accidently end up "shaming" without malicious intent because they lack awareness of their power and influence, or simply end up saying something horrible and unjustified on impulse in heated and emotional moments.

What is truly frightening is how much influence big social media platforms and big tech already have on kids today, and how unsavoury and selfish the higher ups in these industries are. I doubt that they have any inhibitions using shaming and punishment in all kinds of creative and hidden forms and shapes to fuck over young users self esteem for the sake of their own gain. We might have really fucked up big time by just sitting silent and allowing this shitshow to unfold, but hopefully corrections will be made.
 
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