Are you afraid of death or have you made your peace?

[herbavore]

Last night something got killed in my yard right under my bedroom window. It involved probably five minutes of terror (running and shrieking) and then two horrifying screams of pain. The predators were probably coyotes and I am guessing the prey was a young raccoon. The snarling and growling was so loud that it woke us all up. My cats flew off the bed into hiding and I went flying outside and scared whatever it was off--no doubt carrying the now-dead prey off with it. This morning I went out and looked for remains and could only see things knocked around where the animal must have tried to find a hiding place or an escape. This morning the sound of the coyotes won't leave my head. When I was down in Ecuador walking I wrote a poem about every death now being (in my mind) my son's death. Last night and today I am consumed with the fear that he felt the terror I heard last night and that he also felt that pain. There was nothing to suggest this in his body, but the thoughts will not leave me. I really wish I had not heard that.

I had been thinking a lot about the coyotes that have come to live invisibly (for the most part) among us in cities. I had been thinking of them as a metaphor . We drove the coyotes to live among us because we overpopulated and took their territory--thus, "our" territory inevitably becomes theirs. In many ways the coyotes are like our own hungers for love and belonging. We drove them further and further from our internal cities, crowding the space with material things and vacuous concepts like celebrity and wealth-addiction. Now our own hungers have come back to live amongst us, snatching our cats, devouring our chickens, terrifying predators of beings we hold dear. After last night, they are more than metaphor.

Sorry, this is kind of derailing the thread. It's just that so often when we speak of death it is an abstract concept. I have seen death up close in violent and non-violent ways in my life and each time I am made aware that it is next to impossible to hold the awareness of the reality of it. Right now I am unnerved and physically reacting to those screams echoing in my head but my human brain will eventually edit them out for sanity's sake.

 

[DixiChik]

(((HUGS))) Herby...I'm so sorry sweetheart. That would un-nerve anyone. I can somewhat relate to your thoughts, your fear that your son felt terror as he passed. I don't have answers, only my beliefs. I believe he is at peace, awaiting the time of your reunion.

 

[nuttynutskin]

In many ways the coyotes are like our own hungers for love and belonging.

Not trying to be a dick, but how do you figure that? Coyotes are vermin that eat people's pets and livestock. I just don't see the analogy there.

 

[Pretty_Diamonds]

I'm afraid of dying... because I don't know how my mother, friends, and boyfriend would survive without me.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Fear of death is natural because death is natural. Every single person who loves will lose that love. It's a natural process that all humans have to face and then go on. It has happen to every single person who has gone on before you from all human time for many thousands of years and will go on long after we are all gone. Take heart and live for the day.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Not trying to be a dick, but how do you figure that? Coyotes are vermin that eat people's pets and livestock. I just don't see the analogy there.

Really are you that self centered? Have you never studied Coyotes who mate for life and grieve that loss? Just to a different extent. Take the time to study these fine animals and see for yourself. Humans also kill and eat other animals and even have killed and eaten each other. WE ARE ANIMALS ALSO.

 

[Pretty_Diamonds]

^ That's pretty unnecessarily mean.
My boyfriend's mother passed away, and I'm like the closest female he has in his life. We've been together for five years.
My mother's father, mother, two brothers, 3rd and last brother just got diagnosed with terminal cancer and has only a few months left to live, husband, and daughter have passed away. She literally only has her sister, me, and my brother. I'm the only one she's got in the entire country and I take care of her business and help her on a day to day basis.
My best friend's ex boyfriend died from a drug OD, father died, and mom's bf has cancer, and her current boyfriend has almost died numerous times (heroin addict)..

So yeah, if I passed away. I'd be worried for my loved ones. Is that so bad?

 

[nuttynutskin]

Really are you that self centered? Have you never studied Coyotes who mate for life and grieve that loss? Just to a different extent. Take the time to study these fine animals and see for yourself.

Lol... How does the fact that I value pets and livestock more than coyotes make me self centered? I don't currently live in the country but if I did and had a coyote problem I wouldn't think twice to shoot the bastards. I'm not saying I'd go out hunting, but if they were coming onto the property they would be dead.

Humans also kill and eat other animals and even have killed and eaten each other. WE ARE ANIMALS ALSO.

What's your point? This thread is turning into a fucking train wreck.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

You really don't see the point? Coyote's are driven by nature to live and survive just like we are. They deserve to live as much as you do. You seem pretty heartless toward things you don't understand. I truly admire the coyote. Humans have poisoned and trapped and tried everything to wantonly destroy them and they are winning that fight for survival. They actually serve man in the balance of nature by keeping rodents under control which make up the bulk of their diet.

I think this is one of really good and pertinent and real threads I've read here.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Are you a vegetarian? Animals aren't equal to people, sorry. I have more of a right to live than animals. And people's pets and livestock > coyotes imo. It's cute that you think coyotes "serve man" by eating rodents but avoid the issue of what a problem they cause farmers and people with pets in rural areas. Maybe you'd change your tune if your pet or livestock got mauled to death. But what this has do with whether people are afraid of death or not I have no fucking clue.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Animals aren't equal to people? People are animals. Coyotes do serve to keep natures balance. It's a fact you don't care about or understand. Carry on, nothing can change your views.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

No two animals are identical. We are not outside of the food chain we are on top of the food chain. Lets then kill all the wild animals so there is no chance that a human could be killed. Oh and all pets too because occasionally they injure or kill a human. Then, finally we are safe. Oh wait, humans kill humans at an astronomical rate. Oh well at least the wild animals won't kill anyone. We've done our job.

 

[belligerent drunk]

rmikhail, your condescending and sarcastic comments don't add anything to the discussion other than make other people behave the same way. It's not a good way to disguise your faulty arguments.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Then you're in for the big surprise. Everyone dies.

 

[Pibolar]

First post in the thread, interesting topic. The thing I fear most about death, I think, is leaving behind a life that I was unsatisfied with. Like, leaving behind a life in which I did not accomplish things that were important to me. If I were to die right now, I wouldn't be content with what I'd done while living. Who knows if I ever will be though.

There also seems to be a suicide discussion here as well. To be honest, I really find it irritating when people condemn suicide by calling it "cowardly". IMO, suicide is not an act of bravery, nor cowardice. More often than not, it is an act of desperation. An emotional act, that many people go through with because they cannot handle certain things in this world and/or in their lives. It is often a result of a mental health problem such as depression, anxiety, stress, etc. and can be helped; but not always. It is a sad reality of our lives, and to say that it is cowardly is dismissive and counter-productive.

As far as the whole "animals vs humans" side-bar that I just read through, I have to make a comment. Other animals are, IMO, just as important to this earth as we are, some arguably more-so. To say that other animals are not equal to humans is subjective. You may call one animal a parasite, but how do you defend a human's parasitic tendencies? We destroy this planet.

 

[nuttynutskin]

First post in the thread, interesting topic. The thing I fear most about death, I think, is leaving behind a life that I was unsatisfied with. Like, leaving behind a life in which I did not accomplish things that were important to me.

That's probably one of my biggest fears also besides death itself.

IMO, suicide is not an act of bravery, nor cowardice. More often than not, it is an act of desperation. An emotional act, that many people go through with because they cannot handle certain things in this world and/or in their lives.

I agree.

It is often a result of a mental health problem such as depression, anxiety, stress, etc. and can be helped; but not always.

I think this is where there is a fine line because it's pretty normal for people suffering from mental problems to feel that they can't be helped or it won't get better, myself included (although I've never been genuinely suicidal). Can everyone be helped? Maybe not, but I bet there are a lot of people that have killed themselves that may have been able to go on and lead a decent life if they had gotten the help they needed.

As far as the whole "animals vs humans" side-bar that I just read through, I have to make a comment. Other animals are, IMO, just as important to this earth as we are, some arguably more-so. To say that other animals are not equal to humans is subjective. You may call one animal a parasite, but how do you defend a human's parasitic tendencies? We destroy this planet.

I think this debate is better suited for a different thread. Admittedly I did contribute to the derailing a bit, but I didn't mean for this thread to be about animal ethics. I believe there's already a thread in this section that covers that. This thread is about whether people fear death and dying or not and why.

 

[Pibolar]

I think this is where there is a fine line because it's pretty normal for people suffering from mental problems to feel that they can't be helped or it won't get better, myself included (although I've never been genuinely suicidal). Can everyone be helped? Maybe not, but I bet there are a lot of people that have killed themselves that may have been able to go on and lead a decent life if they had gotten the help they needed.

Yeah, definitely. I would lump myself in with the first group of people, those that sometimes feel that they will never beat their mental battles (in my case depression); but still, like you, I do not want to end my life. Although at one point in my life I was very reckless and I didn't care whether I lived or not. So I can sympathize with people who feel like they want to die, or that life is hopeless and will never get better.

And I certainly agree that there are many people who have ended it, but had they gotten the care and treatment they needed, could have gone on to have much better lives. In many cases, it truly is a matter of getting what you need to combat your mental health problems. Sometimes just having someone to speak with and understand can be enough. Being open about these matters and being able to talk with others is important. Most of my friends have been very depressed at least once in their lives, and whenever I notice I will make a point to be there for them because I understand how awful it can be, and I know they do the same for me; having an understanding person close by can make a huge difference.

It seems that these problems are on ongoing battle for most people I know (myself included), and something that we have to fight on a daily basis. At times I wonder how someone can just not be depressed when thinking about our lives and the world we live in.

Sorry if I went a bit off topic, it's a subject that I feel very strongly about.


And I agree nuttynut, let's leave to animal side-bar to another thread.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

At times I wonder how someone can just not be depressed when thinking about our lives and the world we live in.

I would guess because no two people view life in the same way. That's why my position has always been let the user decide. If we get out of the way of people who think differently than ourselves on this then we can get on with our own trip. It's fine to disagree respectfully but leave it at that. In the same way I object to someone trying to legislate or bully me about what I want to put in my body. Fuck that.

As far as threads drifting off topic that's pretty normal in a long thread. Personally I have no problem with it. It doesn't interfere for me if others start a separate conversation. I can skip that part if I'm not interested. I enjoy watching the flow of conversation. It's kind of interesting to see a thread move about and then think on what motivated that shift. Sometimes there actually is a connection with the OP if you think deeply on it. Like when the conversation shifted into suicide. When I talk to friends in real time conversations they naturally move, shift and flow probably for the same reasons they do in threads.

 

[Pibolar]

I would guess because no two people view life in the same way.

Well, yeah I understand that. That's just the way I see it though. Like due to all the terrible things in the world it makes it that much easier to get depressed is all I meant. Didn't mean to discredit someone else's viewpoint, just to clarify.

Also I 100% agree with your "let the user decide" statement.

It's kind of interesting to see a thread move about and then think on what motivated that shift. Sometimes there actually is a connection with the OP if you think deeply on it. Like when the conversation shifted into suicide. When I talk to friends in real time conversations they naturally move, shift and flow probably for the same reasons they do in threads

Word, I like that too. Makes the thread feel more organic.

 

[malakaix]

Man this thread garnered a lot of replies in a short time.

I often wonder about the correlation between fear of death and self-assessment. If one believes they have accomplished much in life does the thought of death seem less intimidating then someone who believes they have lived an unfulfilled life? Coming into close contact with the realization of one's mortality and to witness that window of time shrinking at a rapid rate suddenly puts your entire life in the spotlight.. if it doesn't measure up to the standard you've set yourself then I imagine there would be immense anxiety about death.

I'm not afraid of death, I'm afraid of a painful or mediocre life. Death means you're done, life means you have to do shit.

Pretty much this.