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Are you afraid of death or have you made your peace?

rmikhail said:
Wait so you think suicide is an act of bravery? I say spare us the drama and just do it already.
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Going against one's survival instincts requires a degree of some kind of bravery, so I guess so. However, I don't think that's what Cosmic Trigger meant. It's not about the act of suicide itself, but more about the personal freedom that people deserve to have.
 
People DO have the right to suicide. It's only frowned upon because it can hurt others and people see death as a bad thing, typically.

And don't get me started on the 'do it already' comment.
 
I've already been dead, in a sense.

Some of the places I have traveled to via psychedelics have been more than informative.

I'm not ready to go just yet, but I am also not afraid.
 
It really doesn't hurt others. Others may choose to feel emotionally hurt but that's a personal choice on their part. I for instance chose to feel grateful for an end to their suffering when my friend hung himself. I lost a friend and surely miss them but it did me no harm.
 
As long as I get to avoid a slow agonising death crippled by old age having to have help anytime I need to wash or shit etc, then hit me with a bus tomorrow for all I care.
 
rmikhail said:
Wait so you think suicide is an act of bravery? I say spare us the drama and just do it already.
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This is a very common response from those who have strong unconscious death anxiety (see Becker and TMT) .We are discussing a philosophical subject and you are taking this personally and so lashing out.

And yes killing oneself means overcoming your survival instincts and death anxieties so in most cases it is an act of bravery. So if you have a logical case to make for your beliefs then make it but cut the personal attacks. So far you have offered nothing be back you beliefs. Man up and discuss this like an adult.
 
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Noodle said:
I've already been dead, in a sense.

Some of the places I have traveled to via psychedelics have been more than informative.

I'm not ready to go just yet, but I am also not afraid.
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I've been a psychonaut since 1970 with literally hundreds of low and high dose experiences under my belt. I've experienced what some call ego death and I contend there is no real evidence that it is similar to actually dying. No one can know. And as I posted in the links most death anxiety/fear is pushed into the unconscious so we can function in daily life without undue anxiety so again I'll contend you likely are unaware that you are afraid. Check out those links I posted, then come back at me with a considered argument as to how they are flawed. Show me how I'm in error. That's what this forum is about right?
 
I'm not that kind of nitpicker.

But fair enough, no one knows what it is to be dead.

I do know what it is to be afraid to let go of an idea or a model or a mode. I have let go of a lot of things. I will easily make peace, even if you do assume I don't know myself enough to be so bold.


:)
 
Noodle said:
I'm not that kind of nitpicker.

But fair enough, no one knows what it is to be dead.

I do know what it is to be afraid to let go of an idea or a model or a mode. I have let go of a lot of things. I will easily make peace, even if you do assume I don't know myself enough to be so bold.


:)
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Death Anxiety is in another league with most ideas or models according to both Becker and TMT. I had the belief that I did not fear death for most of my life also. I found I had pushed it into my unconscious in exactly the way that Becker predicted and TMT verified with scientific human studies and experiments. I'm not saying you are wrong but we are debating this issue here in this forum and in any reasonable debate evidence and support beyond anecdotal is required for a robust discussion. I've presented mine and have more.
 
I think I have already stated I don't want to die.

I'm not interested in your kind of dialogue. I'm not as obsessed or well read enough to compete with a bunch of references I know little or nothing about.

If you want to use the statements of my views to generate further discussion, then have at it.
 
Except you haven't pointed out anything. You've offered no logical argument nor evidence to back your POV. You've got nothing but a personal rant that looks like fear.
 
And if I decline comment I have no fear?

Maybe knowing if you are ready to make peace actually doesn't matter, because no one that has truely died has come back to tell about it.

Right?
 
Noodle said:
And if I decline comment I have no fear?

Maybe knowing if you are ready to make peace actually doesn't matter, because no one that has truely died has come back to tell about it.

Right?
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Never said that but it's the type of comment you are compelled to make that that counts wouldn't you agree. And maybe nothing matters but here we are in the philosophy forum discussing and debating anyway so we might as well make the most of it. I didn't start this thread. I'm just participating and providing evidenced for my POV.
 
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Fug said:
As long as I get to avoid a slow agonising death crippled by old age having to have help anytime I need to wash or shit etc, then hit me with a bus tomorrow for all I care.
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IMO you've presented a compelling reason for suicide, to avoid a slow agonising death crippled by old age and and being unable to physically have a life. But I don't recommend the bus thing as likely no one wants to see your mangled bloody body and hear you moaning and screaming.
 
"I'm all about the right to suicide and have been long before I got ill. I want freedom for myself and I do not in any fashion want to try and control what others do and long as it does not PHYSICALLY hurt others. I want to be brave I want to let others be. Let's not condemn and jail free, brave and heroic men who act on it like Dr. Kevorkian did. A truly compassionate human. What we did to him is a sure symbol of how we fear death. Let's grow up into strong adults and let others do the same. Death is the total outcome of everything. Let's give it it's due." Shit! I did the quote thing wrong again...doof!

CT...I totally agree. Am I wrong, or is Oregon the state that legalized assisted suicide? I'm thinking of the young lady with the brain tumor who moved there to end her life on her terms.

I come from a perspective of debilitating pain (4 decades) due to trauma, disease, and treatment for said traumas and disease. I have never been able to take pain meds for any length of time, because they choke my bowels and bladder. So I SUFFER. Yes, I have spent most of my so-called life pushing through the pain. I too was raised by wicked "parents". I was beaten until I bled...then beaten for bleeding. I learned "stiff upper lip".

As I grow older (soon to be 55) I no longer have the hope that "things will get better" (something we must lie to ourselves about daily). I have always kept an exit plan. As I've said before, it comforts me to know I can leave on my terms. I've stayed ONLY for my husband. He cannot fathom my stealth sense of independence...that I do not want to find myself needing his assistance.

Truth be told, I wish I'd died at the scene @ 17...It hasn't been worth the pain.
 
DixiChik, Thank you for speaking up and sharing such a difficult situation. It's difficult to imagine what your life is actually like. I can only guess as a fellow sufferer. Thank you not only for yourself but for others in similar situations who feel they are not free to take care of themselves due to the wishes or vilification from others.

I have found it's often those that suffer the most that have the most empathy for others no matter how scary or difficult the situation. Someone lurking may greatly benefit from your post. I wish you all the best and I 100% support any decision that you make for yourself as a free human with the right to their own body and life. Take care friend.

BTW on my 7th birthday after a difficult day with my father I closed my eyes and ran into a busy street. My right front instep was run over by a auto going 30 mph. Had I been one step faster I'd have been in front of that car and likely be dead. I truly wish I had been killed that day except I do care about the trauma that the driver would have felt. I would have avoided a lot of suffering in my home until I was old enough to run for it. I think about that day often.

And yes Oregon is a right to die state but it's so difficult to qualify that only a very few people have used it in all these years.
 
You can't show that either. I presented evidence that we fear suicide out of our death anxiety outside of any personal opinion. Prove I'm projecting. Show how what i've presented is incorrect.
I don't just want suicide for myself. I think it's a basic human right beyond my own wishes. Suicide is only one aspect of this discussion.
 
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rmikhail, you're attacking a strawman. The argument is that people should have a right to end their own life, and that people with interest should be allowed to provide such a service with proper regulations in place. Your observations about Cosmic Trigger are irrelevant here.

And yes, committing suicide requires a certain level of courage and/or impulsivity, because ending one's life is clearly against one's survival instincts, which for the most part dictate one's behaviour.
 
wtf are you hiding from? Why isn't it a sound justification for suicide? What makes you the chief arbitrator of what is justified or correct? Why does anyone need any justification for what they do with their own life? Let's hear it? And show how taking one's own life against instinct, and cultural rules of conduct including in some places the law does not involve bravery?

If someone decides life isn't worth the trouble how is it any skin off your nose? WTF what aren't you smoking? And btw no one is suggesting or telling you that you ought to commit suicide.
https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/s/schopenhauer/arthur/pessimism/chapter3.html
 
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