Bupe Are we always at ceiling even at low doses...?

[MrJoe]

Hi All,

Forgive me if this has been talked about, but ive never seen anything posted about it. My question is, aren't bupe users always at the ceiling level even at low doses because the half-life is usually greater than 24 hrs? See what i mean? If you take 2mgs day one, then another 2mg 24hrs later you still might have 1mg or more left in your system and this trend continues day after day and it continues to build up in your system. So am i right about this that because the half life is typically 30+ hrs (according to wiki) you are continually adding more than is being metabolized? So am i and everyone else taking it for an extended period always at the "ceiling" even at relatively low doses? Can someone clear this up, or if it's been discussed a link to a previous thread would be appreciated. Thank you all for your time.

 

[sekio]

The idea is that on a long course of bupe therapy, you will reach some sort of steady state where your body maintains a constant blood range. The amount of bupe that your body metabolises and excretes every day depends on the dose and other things that are going on in your body and eventually you can reach a point where your body excretes roughly the same amount that you take.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

I dunno, I never take the same daily dose really but have been trying to keep at 4mg and below, then after a even though I know it's pointless will take 16-24mg and can DEFINATELY tell I took more. But the next day no matter what dose I take I just feel the same...so keep doses low and then when you are really craving you can take more and feel a lil' more JUST FOR THAT DAY, when I say more it's what I feel on the 4mg doses..just more 'numb'..and constipated, and I sweat more...

 

[The Doc.]

well yes when people take higher doses they are pretty much always in the ceiling range meaning they cant get a buzz on it until the bupe leaves their body. I am able to escape this by using doses of 0.1-0.5mg 3 times a day so I always come down before my next dose 6 hours later by taking micrograms. also this way it converts to Nor-bupe which is a full agonist without such a long half life as un-converted bupe so it feels more like traditional opiates. this si why bupe works so well as a matinence drug because the more you take the less euphoria you will feel and most addicts will take as much opiates as they can get so they will never get a high from bupe if they asked to be put on a really high dose and people almost never figure out the whole less is more thing with buprnorphine

 

[Lorne???]

^ I'm attempting to do the ultra-low dose thing, it is great, but after a couple of days, I barely feel normal, I just can't keep my doses as low as some people apperantly can.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Ya, that's my problem Lorne..unless I do 4mg(been trying to keep it at 6mg at most) I don't feel normal after a few days(legs sore,craving,knowing I can go out and use on top of the low dose.) this would probly be the reason we are prescribed the higher doses for maintaince, but once I get under 4mg I will start to feel poopy/craving after a couple days..and trainspotter are you saying you actually take micrograms,or are you taking like 1mg under the tounge and then saying 30 percent of that??? Or are you actually taking micrograms under the tounge???

 

[mareseatoats]

This was a good question..You can also get your dose to such a low point, that adding any more to that dose after a bit would definitely feel like too much; uncomfortably.

 

[The Doc.]

Ya, that's my problem Lorne..unless I do 4mg(been trying to keep it at 6mg at most) I don't feel normal after a few days(legs sore,craving,knowing I can go out and use on top of the low dose.) this would probly be the reason we are prescribed the higher doses for maintaince, but once I get under 4mg I will start to feel poopy/craving after a couple days..and trainspotter are you saying you actually take micrograms,or are you taking like 1mg under the tounge and then saying 30 percent of that??? Or are you actually taking micrograms under the tounge???

Im taking 0,3 or around there hard to be exact with the powder and rubbing it into the veins under my tounge with my finger usually dipped it a tiny bit of alcohol to wet it then stick it on and hold it under my tounge for a sec. Its about the same as throwing 1 mg under there and just letting it dissolve in a saliva filled mouth. I also snort it sometimes but I've been trying to break bad habits I stopped IVing the stuff a whole ago to save my veins

 

[Lorne???]

^ Trainspotter, you should just dissolve it in a water. You only need like 0.5ml(or less) for that amount, and it would guarantee at least 40% bioavailability... Not to mention, you could know the exact dose, more easily with water.

Dissolving in water is always my suggestion, it takes less than 5 minutes of your time, is 1.5-2x as strong as tablets, it dissolves faster, and is easier to dose.

Of course, in your case crushing it and adding alcohol is probably damn close, but just using water is much more simple.

(PS: You don't need alcohol to increase BA, water is sufficient)

 

[The Doc.]

Yea I think I'm getting pretty close to that by doing that cause none is being washed away by saliva its about the same as snorting mabye a little less but yes pretty Dam close

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Oh, okay. I get the strips.. so say i let it disslove in water, like half a milligram then put that under my tounge it would raise the bio?? I though alcohol was needed to raise the bio to 70-80 percent? I to use to shoot them every now again, but stopped, more because I didn't want tracked up arms over damn suboxone,and the liquid that would come out was way clear(half a milligram soo 500mcg) so never thought it was doing thaat much damage to veings, although probly wrong..would never do it more than a week at a time after a relaspe and just wanted to shoot something....

 

[Lorne???]

^^^ No, you don't need alcohol. The proof is in Zubsolv, surprisingly. A better formulation of filler has allowed Zubsolv to achieve the same BA as a liquid formulation, and thus you only need 5.7 to achieve the same effect as 8mg.

BTW, the BA of liquid buprenorphine is general 40-65%, mean around 50%.

But yes, it should be 1.5-2x stronger, and you don't have to hold it under your tongue as long. Superior in every way

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Shit.. Learn something new everyday with Bupe, I swear..so I went through all the damn hassle of plugging,putting pieces of strip in my nose,shooting(well that was more of a needle fixation after relaspes..) when I just could have went ahead let it disslove in a lesser amount of water than plugging and put it under my damn tounge. UGH!!! lol.