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Are visions real?

B1tO'RoughJack said:
Hey there - yes visions are very real...

I have them myself - they are a gift. They are either a different plane of existence, like lucid dreaming on the astral realm, or they are on this physical plane we experience everyday while we are awake - just in a different time zone.

Like, the way I see it - there's this piece of string which represents time and it has coloured markers on it which represent us, and then events which could potetially happen. Probably more like a bunch of spaghetti, considering there are more than one potential futures. You are blessed if you can see potential futures, but you must also remember that it is still illusion as it is not here & now - so anything negative you can see might not happen if you make the right path, and anything positive you can feel attached to can also not happen if you fuck up.

What kind of visions are you having? EDIT: ahh I have just seen yours are drug induced - Still, I believe with drugs like psilocybin we can see the threads holding us altogether - like an ethereal network of energy. I saw it on mushrooms on two occasions - it was amazing - blue fading to black with this neon white edged-pink network of electrical fire connecting every living thing , even every single thing that is tangible.


I have also seen these sacred geometries spinning round and round, morphing and pulsating on LSD and DMT before - breakthrough doses...I just hypothesized they are exaggerated regurgitated patterns from my subconscious - stuff I'd seen over the years, that just got let loose in front of my eyes for a few minutes.

What's funny is one of my DMT experiences - someone I have never met, who produces visionary art (I will link tomorrow-fucking great stuff), I've been corresponding with over the web for a few years - a newish representation of something she's seen was pretty much exactly what I saw. There must be something objective about some of these things too, if other people are experiencing the same visions haha.
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100% agree
 
B1tO'RoughJack said:
Hey there - yes visions are very real...



I have also seen these sacred geometries spinning round and round, morphing and pulsating on LSD and DMT before - breakthrough doses...I just hypothesized they are exaggerated regurgitated patterns from my subconscious - stuff I'd seen over the years, that just got let loose in front of my eyes for a few minutes.

What's funny is one of my DMT experiences - someone I have never met, who produces visionary art (I will link tomorrow-fucking great stuff), I've been corresponding with over the web for a few years - a newish representation of something she's seen was pretty much exactly what I saw. There must be something objective about some of these things too, if other people are experiencing the same visions haha.
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I just did a PM to you but it would not send 8(:X

Can you please link that artwork?
 
farmaz said:
Void said:
Yeah I think it helps you to connect with a different perception of reality which you can get into without drugs, so yes it's real.
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How is this possible?
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Some people just experience different perceptions of reality or other levels of consciousness naturally. But many of us have to work at it. There are many ways, for example:

- meditation (such as transcendental meditation)
- shamanism
- other types of indigenous ceremonies/rituals
- lucid dreaming
- isolation tanks
- the use of various herbs, especially with concomitant diet and lifestyle restrictions (the latter takes a lot of dedication but it does alter your perception) *I guess technically this could be considered using drugs if you consider all plants/herbs as drugs
- a type of meditation that is like waking lucid dreaming (putting yourself into the dream state but not actually being asleep as you can still sense your surroundings, move if you choose, etc, although moving or hearing distractions can make it difficult to stay in the dream state)
- I could list more... let me know if you want info on any of these methods.

I find the more open-minded one is about this and the more times one experiences it the easier it becomes. It happens to me spontaneously now that I will get mild visions, mostly just fractals and patterns so far, even without the use of drugs or other deliberate techniques. I also notice it just from being in powerful spiritual places, being around shamans, or being around psychedelics. Whether it's conditioning or tuning into another realm, who knows. For me, I attribute this ability/phenomenon mainly to doing a lot of ayahuasca in traditional ceremonial/meditation context, and being open to and paying attention to it.

I have also experienced shared visions, and have seen that visions are very similar between a variety of people, so that is interesting.

Here are some other things I find fascinating:

- Ever notice if you close your eyes and press gently but firmly on your eyelids, you will see swirling geometric patterns? This is not good for your eyes, and definitely not something you want to do for very long as it restricts blood flow to the retina, but I did this when I was a kid and didn't know better. Cutting off the blood flow to the retina means that it doesn't receive external input and you get these kaleidescopic patterns from visual cortical activity. But we don't know why it does that or if it has meaning.

- Blind people can see visions when they take psychedelics. Deaf people can hear auditory hallucinations.

- DNA emits light. Some researchers have theorized that perhaps psychedelics or other altered states can enable people to perceive this light (which is normally too small to see with the human eye).

- Synesthesia. (I have experienced this both with and without drugs).

A gorgeous video for you all that depicts some visions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRtdvtQfC2E
 
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that youtube video with the images are the same at selected points that I have been "pulled into" from salvia Divinorum WTF!!???!?!?!!?!?!??!

If you could PM me with info on
- lucid dreaming
- isolation tanks
- meditation (such as transcendental meditation)

I would be very glad.


Also you heard of a guy Dr John Lilly?........
 
Take what you see in a "vision", see if you can quantitatively measure it, and have other people measure it and agree with you. b) see if it provides explanatory power for some SPECIFIC, measurable, objective phenomena or property of some object or class of objects. c) see if that leads to PREDICTIVE power about that same thing, accurate, measurable, objective, definite, falsifiable predictions. d) See if it allows you engineer(or break) some kind of machine, cure(or cause) a disease, or otherwise results directly in the knowledge required to produce(or destroy) some kind of tangible product. In all cases, share these results with other people who are disinterested in you specifically, and see if they can reproduce this same phenomena as you describe.

At that point, it is probably real. If you fail on all of those goals, it is just patent nonsense.
 
you were looking for escape from the real world and its problems, tensions and hostility or you would not have taken in the stuff and drugged your mind. Now that it has had this sensational effect, you rationalize and try to regard it as real instead of merely a drug-induced illusion and "high." So, now you want more of it. When that fails to give you the same high because you are then getting used to it, you will be driven to take something stronger even against your better judgement. You are then on the road to a miserable end.

Is that what you want?
 
I don't really understand the way people separate reality from non-reality just because of the presence of the psychedelic. Reality is experienced in the first-person, so whatever you're experiencing is "real". I went for a walk in the woods yesterday -- was that real? To me it was, but to you it isn't because you weren't there.

It's all one reality. It doesn't turn off just because you do a psychedelic.
 
Foreigner said:
I don't really understand the way people separate reality from non-reality just because of the presence of the psychedelic. Reality is experienced in the first-person, so whatever you're experiencing is "real". I went for a walk in the woods yesterday -- was that real? To me it was, but to you it isn't because you weren't there. It's all one reality. It doesn't turn off just because you do a psychedelic.
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If you have a psychedelic experience of walking on water and to you it is real, why get an education? The experiences of researchers would only be the real world or reality of their own, not yours. Their effort to understand reality would only be a waste of effort to you.
 
brough said:
If you have a psychedelic experience of walking on water and to you it is real, why get an education? The experiences of researchers would only be the real world or reality of their own, not yours. Their effort to understand reality would only be a waste of effort to you.
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Can't see how this is particularly helpful to anyone.

Drug visions are an intrinsically muddled thing, in my experience the jems of wisdom are lost within a sea of irrelevant information it is the wisdom of several usages leading too such visions and sober time meditating the relivant ones before incorporating theses lessons into reality.

Psychedelic or mystical experience are fleeting and it is about taking the important revelations and applying them to our common 'reality'; there is no point having eternal knowledge without imparting it into practice. Drugs blind reason, one of the most important of human qualities.

Someone earlier mentioned that drugs cannot give mystical experience or powerful lessons. I think that although the strict structure of buddhist monks is one way to connect with the divine, any omnipotent being surely would make multiple paths for all the people.

I hope you continue your mystical path my friend. Safe journeys.
x
 
brough said:
you were looking for escape from the real world and its problems, tensions and hostility or you would not have taken in the stuff and drugged your mind. Now that it has had this sensational effect, you rationalize and try to regard it as real instead of merely a drug-induced illusion and "high." So, now you want more of it. When that fails to give you the same high because you are then getting used to it, you will be driven to take something stronger even against your better judgement. You are then on the road to a miserable end.

Is that what you want?
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I had to laugh at this.

1) you will be driven to take something stronger even against your better judgement. You are then on the road to a miserable end.
Is that what you want? - From what I was doing before I look at PCP as a welcome break (Try a 10 year gear habit)

Ever done lsd, salvia, ketamine, 2-CB, datura, Peyote, liberty caps yourself?.........If not, please don't post on this thread because you have NO clue about what it is like.
 
farmaz said:
I had to laugh at this.

1) you will be driven to take something stronger even against your better judgement. You are then on the road to a miserable end.
Is that what you want? - From what I was doing before I look at PCP as a welcome break (Try a 10 year gear habit)

Ever done lsd, salvia, ketamine, 2-CB, datura, Peyote, liberty caps yourself?.........If not, please don't post on this thread because you have NO clue about what it is like.
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It is pleasing to know this thread has such brilliant posters, ones who have been everywhere and experienced everything. I've only traveled to a mere thirty-five countries and lived in three, written three books and lived to be a mere 85 years of age. It is so sad that I have had to skip getting my mind bombed out like you. So sad, I have to plod on knowing I have missed so much of the real world. . .
 
brough said:
It is pleasing to know this thread has such brilliant posters, ones who have been everywhere and experienced everything. I've only traveled to a mere thirty-five countries and lived in three, written three books and lived to be a mere 85 years of age. It is so sad that I have had to skip getting my mind bombed out like you. So sad, I have to plod on knowing I have missed so much of the real world. . .
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I believe farmaz was just asking if you have ever used psychedelics and saying if you haven't then you can't make judgements about the experience or the reasons why people seek those types of experiences as you have no personal experience about the topic of this thread. You conveniently avoided the question and its implications by sarcastically twisting it into some sort of dicksizing contest about life experience 8). Why are you even on a drug forum if these are your beliefs about drugs and drug users?


farmaz said:
that youtube video with the images are the same at selected points that I have been "pulled into" from salvia Divinorum WTF!!???!?!?!!?!?!??!

If you could PM me with info on
- lucid dreaming
- isolation tanks
- meditation (such as transcendental meditation)

I would be very glad.


Also you heard of a guy Dr John Lilly?........
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay. Yeah I think it's very interesting that there are some universal characteristics to psychedelic visions.

I'll post the info you asked for here in case anyone else is interested.

Lucid dreaming: A lucid dream is any dream where you are aware you are dreaming, but I'm referring to deliberately inducing lucid dreams. I have had much success with this so feel free to let me know if you have any questions, want any tips. But pretty much everything you might want to know is on http://www.lucidipedia.com/

Isolation tanks: An isolation tank is the same thing as a sensory deprivation tank. It's a lightless, soundproof tank inside which you float in salt water at the same temperature as your skin. They were first used by John C. Lilly in the 1950's to test the effects of sensory deprivation. So yes I do know of him :) Lilly was a consciousness researcher who mainly used isolation tanks, dolphin communication, and psychedelic drugs, and was into other cool stuff. Isolation tanks are now also used for meditation, relaxation, creativity, alternative medicine and other purposes. Note that today's isolation tanks have some improvements over the ones used by Lilly. Many cities have places where you can buy time in an isolation tank. You could do a search online for ones in your area if you are interested - they are sometimes called flotation tanks/flotation therapy or "REST tanks". I would recommend not going under the influence of any drugs your first few times though. Look up isolation tanks online for more info, there have been lots of interesting studies and you can find experience reports. For most people it seems to take some practice to have a strong visionary experience, but it is healthy, relaxing (generally - not for everyone though as some people can be very disconcerted by the absence of external stimuli), unusual and interesting anyway.

Meditation: There are many many types of meditation. I will stick to Transcendental Meditation ("TM") for now, as it is one I mentioned. TM uses a mantra, while sitting with the eyes closed for about 20 min. It's basically about transcending thought. Of course it takes practice, but you can go into another level of consciousness which is neither like normal awake consciousness or sleeping/dreaming. It can seem kind of dogmatic, it has an organization and guidelines, and you go to certified TM teachers for instruction in it. It might possibly be something you could teach yourself but they believe it's something that you need to learn from a proper teacher and be assigned a mantra chosen for you individually etc. I haven't really done this specific type of mediation much yet, but I have a friend who has done it for many years with amazing results and has out-of-body experiences and such. It's one of the most widely practiced and widely studied types of meditation. The TM website: http://www.tm.org/
 
Swimmingdancer said:
I believe farmaz was just asking if you have ever used psychedelics and saying if you haven't then you can't make judgements about the experience or the reasons why people seek those types of experiences as you have no personal experience about the topic of this thread. You conveniently avoided the question and its implications by sarcastically twisting it into some sort of dicksizing contest about life experience 8). Why are you even on a drug forum if these are your beliefs about drugs and drug users?




Sorry for the delay. Yeah I think it's very interesting that there are some universal characteristics to psychedelic visions.

I'll post the info you asked for here in case anyone else is interested.

Lucid dreaming: A lucid dream is any dream where you are aware you are dreaming, but I'm referring to deliberately inducing lucid dreams. I have had much success with this so feel free to let me know if you have any questions, want any tips. But pretty much everything you might want to know is on http://www.lucidipedia.com/

Isolation tanks: An isolation tank is the same thing as a sensory deprivation tank. It's a lightless, soundproof tank inside which you float in salt water at the same temperature as your skin. They were first used by John C. Lilly in the 1950's to test the effects of sensory deprivation. So yes I do know of him :) Lilly was a consciousness researcher who mainly used isolation tanks, dolphin communication, and psychedelic drugs, and was into other cool stuff. Isolation tanks are now also used for meditation, relaxation, creativity, alternative medicine and other purposes. Note that today's isolation tanks have some improvements over the ones used by Lilly. Many cities have places where you can buy time in an isolation tank. You could do a search online for ones in your area if you are interested - they are sometimes called flotation tanks/flotation therapy or "REST tanks". I would recommend not going under the influence of any drugs your first few times though. Look up isolation tanks online for more info, there have been lots of interesting studies and you can find experience reports. For most people it seems to take some practice to have a strong visionary experience, but it is healthy, relaxing (generally - not for everyone though as some people can be very disconcerted by the absence of external stimuli), unusual and interesting anyway.

Meditation: There are many many types of meditation. I will stick to Transcendental Meditation ("TM") for now, as it is one I mentioned. TM uses a mantra, while sitting with the eyes closed for about 20 min. It's basically about transcending thought. Of course it takes practice, but you can go into another level of consciousness which is neither like normal awake consciousness or sleeping/dreaming. It can seem kind of dogmatic, it has an organization and guidelines, and you go to certified TM teachers for instruction in it. It might possibly be something you could teach yourself but they believe it's something that you need to learn from a proper teacher and be assigned a mantra chosen for you individually etc. I haven't really done this specific type of mediation much yet, but I have a friend who has done it for many years with amazing results and has out-of-body experiences and such. It's one of the most widely practiced and widely studied types of meditation. The TM website: http://www.tm.org/
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100% on point again :)
 
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