Are there any psychedelics thats are strong and are not tryptamines and phenylamines?

[Rorthron]

really?

Yes! There was a thread at the Nexus quite recently about that where the topic starter was amazed with the strength of said compounds and he and others could only compare it to oral DMT, and traveling to the same headspace. But you can check similar reports all around the net. And this is using the pure substances, not the "spice" type mixes

Of course this depends a lot on the user, on his/her level of tolerance and experience with other cannabinoids, as THC

 

[psood0nym]

To be an agonist of 5-HT2a is not necessarily the definition of psychedelic, which predates even the discovery of serotonin as a neurotransmitter. Your assumption would also of course include serotonin as a Psychedelic substance, which it is not.

The topic of what qualifies as psychedelic is a massive can of worms and I don't think it's really in the spirit of this thread to open it i.e. if well known drugs like ketamine and saliva are what the OP considers to be psychedelic they wouldn't have asked the question. 5HT2a agonism is a practical criterion that helps focus discussion, and even though there's lots of experiential variability between them, there's no doubt that to most people most current psychedelics that agonize the receptor feel more alike than most any of the class does compared to dissociatives and CB-1 agonists (granted, aMT and 5-MeO-DMT are odd, but that probably has a lot to do with their respective monoamine releasing capabilities and highly disproportionate 5HT-1a agonism). I'm certain even rats trained to discriminate DOM won't press a lever if you give them a dissociative or CB-1 agonist or serotonin, yet we know they do mistake LSD for DOM. Hell, rats don't even mistake 5-MeO-DMT for DOM. If even rodents can acknowledge the differences and similarities I don't think we should pretend jwh-018 is anything like ayahuasca just because for some people there is some narrow overlap subjectively speaking.

 

[atara]

To be an agonist of 5-HT2a is not necessarily the definition of psychedelic, which predates even the discovery of serotonin as a neurotransmitter. Your assumption would also of course include serotonin as a Psychedelic substance, which it is not.

Serotonin would be, but it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier.

Also, the definition of 'second' predates the discovery of caesium, but we use caesium to define the second because it has turned out to be much more reliable than other methods.

 

[psood0nym]

^If serotonin alone is psychedelic than shouldn't a selective serotonin releasing agent like MDAI be psychedelic?

 

[pstyles89]

I dont know if I would consider JWH similar to oral DMT. I've smoked JWH many times and never felt anything similar to a DMT high(even oral). JWH-073 especially feels like marijuana. Im not saying they arent psychedelics, but to compare them with DMT is quite a stretch.

 

[atara]

^If serotonin alone is psychedelic than shouldn't a selective serotonin releasing agent like MDAI be psychedelic?

Yes.

It's likely, of course, that you'll reach serotonin syndrome levels before you reach a saturation of 5-ht2a receptors comparable to that on a traditional psychedelic. There are a lot of serotonin receptors, and some (5-ht2c and 5-ht3) do things you'd rather not have happen (nausea, anxiety, hyperthermia, and vomiting). Some may (???) also prevent psychedelic activity, in the same way that GABA-A agonists can end a psychedelic experience.

 

[Rorthron]

I dont know if I would consider JWH similar to oral DMT. I've smoked JWH many times and never felt anything similar to a DMT high(even oral). JWH-073 especially feels like marijuana. Im not saying they arent psychedelics, but to compare them with DMT is quite a stretch.

Apparently it depends a lot on the individual. For several people, including experienced travelers, the effects of both substances can be quite comparable. YMMV of course.

In my opinion, although clearly different, THC is a definite psychedelic in the pure definition of the term. Thus other synthetic cannabinoids would fall into that definition as well

 

[Rorthron]

The topic of what qualifies as psychedelic is a massive can of worms and I don't think it's really in the spirit of this thread to open it .

The OP did not specifically asked for 5HT2a agonists. He asked for psychedelics other than tryps and phens. Some posts focused their answers on 5HT2a agonists which was eluding the question, so it seemed to me. I do not want to open a possible can of worms, which indeed this can be, but if we stick to the dictionary for the definition of the term that is what you will find, which I believe suits the OP original intent better than the interpretation given later.

 

[theotherside]

I'm one of the few people in the world who had an "ok" experience with pFPP. It wasn't great or anything, but felt like about 12mg's 2c-i with more of a confused experience rather than real clarity that psych's give.

 

[trip.more]

what about isoquinolines?

 

[nopipesdfw]

Apparently it depends a lot on the individual. For several people, including experienced travelers, the effects of both substances can be quite comparable. YMMV of course.

JWH can get a bit trippy, but that's such bullshit. I have smoked bowls with 018 poured all over and I get extremely baked, but it is no literal portal to another dimension.

 

[Rorthron]

JWH can get a bit trippy, but that's such bullshit. I have smoked bowls with 018 poured all over and I get extremely baked, but it is no literal portal to another dimension.

DMT is not by itself a "portal to other dimensions". It depends a lot on the route of administration. However I do to agree with you on one thing: Smoked DMT is markedly different from any JWH, there is no question about that.

On the other hand, oral DMT, as in in Ayahuasca, is a different matter. Except for extreme doses of DMT, most people do not get "portals to other dimensions" or else religions like the Santo Daime or Uniao do Vegetal would not exist (at least in their present form). The presence of MAOIs of course changes the experience, but are nonetheless required to use DMT in that form.

My point is that, for many people, the experience of ORAL DMT and smoked JWHs can be quite similar. On any case both are clear psychedelics which helps as an answer to the OP.

 

[The Smoking Man]

The OP did not specifically asked for 5HT2a agonists. He asked for psychedelics other than tryps and phens. Some posts focused their answers on 5HT2a agonists which was eluding the question, so it seemed to me. I do not want to open a possible can of worms, which indeed this can be, but if we stick to the dictionary for the definition of the term that is what you will find, which I believe suits the OP original intent better than the interpretation given later.

All the examples mentioned in the OP are 5HT2a agonists (in general). It's probably safe to assume the author already knew about dissociatives and deliriants. 5HT2a agonists, NMDA antagonists, and acetylcholine inhibitors are all definitely hallucinogens, however.