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Are there any empathogenic downers?

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whiteHot

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
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40
Hi there,

I have some experience with MDMA and while I like the empathogenic effect of the drug, I dislike the stimulating, "speedy" part. I was wondering whether empathogenic downers exist, i.e. a substance which is both empathogenic and anxiolytic. Does anybody know such a substance?

Thanks and take care.
 
FuckinAcidMan said:
Psilocybin is downery depending on strain and dose

MXE is a better example but the CIA is hiding it in a bunker in Nevada with bigfoot and Elvis's clone.
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I've never had entactogenic feels from Psilocybin.
Classic hallucinogen in my book. Maybe just my body chemistry?
 
December Flower said:
I've never had entactogenic feels from Psilocybin.
Classic hallucinogen in my book. Maybe just my body chemistry?
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I find there to be a weird cold indirect entactogenic effect to psilocybin.

Kind of like how ketamine is psychedelic, but not in a traditional sense. Or MDA is atypically psychedelic.

But again this is down to my body and mind, like you said
 
FuckinAcidMan said:
I find there to be a weird cold indirect entactogenic effect to psilocybin.

Kind of like how ketamine is psychedelic, but not in a traditional sense. Or MDA is atypically psychedelic.

But again this is down to my body and mind, like you said
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I certainly agree that it might indirectly influence my level of empathy, maybe in the sense that I experience all of my emotions and visual/audial stimuli in a bigger fashion. But I think that's because I am already a quite empathetic person, the same might be true for you :)

But I've heard people (especially with low experience) doing some crazy sociopathic stuff on high doses, for example that dude that snapped on mushrooms and killed his gf's cat for no reason, or here in the area at a private party some guy killed his best friend, thinking he was a burglar.
 
December Flower said:
I certainly agree that it might indirectly influence my level of empathy, maybe in the sense that I experience all of my emotions and visual/audial stimuli in a bigger fashion. But I think that's because I am already a quite empathetic person, the same might be true for you :)

But I've heard people (especially with low experience) doing some crazy sociopathic stuff on high doses, for example that dude that snapped on mushrooms and killed his gf's cat for no reason, or here in the area at a private party some guy killed his best friend, thinking he was a burglar.
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Oh for sure, when I used to do PCP analogues all I wanted to do was write poetry and pet the cat and chat with friends and go on hikes, but I've personally read lots of anecdotal reports of other people really going off their rocker in a paranoid, megalomaniac way on those same compounds.

[Granted, near-daily 3-meo-PCP use made me kinda crazy, don't get me wrong, but it was a friendly, peaceful crazy.
Like some kind of odd Witch-Doctor you might find living like a hermit in a backwoods Louisiana swamp, who seems creepy but is totally chill]

I mean a lot of people can't handle alcohol, they do ridiculous shit that I cant even fathom lol. And acid is known to send some people off into a really bad way even though most users consider it a pretty friendly, warm psych.
 
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FuckinAcidMan said:
Oh for sure, when I used to do PCP analogues all I wanted to do was write poetry and pet the cat and chat with friends and go on hikes, but I've personally read lots of anecdotal reports of other people really going off their rocker in a paranoid, megalomaniac way on those same compounds.

[Granted, near-daily 3-meo-PCP use made me kinda crazy, don't get me wrong, but it was a friendly, peaceful crazy.
Like some kind off odd Witch-Doctor you might find living like a hermit in a backwoods Louisiana swamp, who seems creepy but is totally chill]

I mean a lot of people can't handle alcohol, they do ridiculous shit that I cant even fathom lol. And acid is known to send some people off into a really bad way even though most users consider it a pretty friendly, warm psych.
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Gosh, the crazy Witch-Doctor made me laugh. Back in the day, when I still took psychotropic stuff more often than not, my then-girlfriend would call me "Little Shaman", because I got crazy guru-like over every tiny bullshit. "You gotta give the tea the time to brew. The tea is like a flower that needs to blossom in time!", is one of the things I said she STILL bugs me about :D
edit: I didn't use the best one! Shit! "The snail is moving slow, because the snail wants to move slow. It is not going to move any faster or any slower, because this is the speed the snail likes to go at" xD

On topic: I am absolutely with you on this. "Pure" Psychedelics like Psylocybin, LSD, Mescaline and so on are like a catalyst. You experience the world in a much stronger way, but you will also experience yourself in a much stronger way. If by nature you are not very empathic, or if the setting was bad, the trip might make you do things your inhibitions or general understanding of social morals would otherwise stop you from.
I have never heard something like that from MDMA, and it really does actively work on your empathy. I have a small form of autism(AS), and when I was young I couldn't really tell if a person was happy, sad, angry, I had to actively read body/mimical signs to define their mood. MDMA made that go away entirely, and it's something I am still thankful for. It's not like I wasn't empathic, I felt very strongly for the person once I knew what was up, but I just could never really tell 100%.
 
December Flower said:
Gosh, the crazy Witch-Doctor made me laugh. Back in the day, when I still took psychotropic stuff more often than not, my then-girlfriend would call me "Little Shaman", because I got crazy guru-like over every tiny bullshit. "You gotta give the tea the time to brew. The tea is like a flower that needs to blossom in time!", is one of the things I said she STILL bugs me about :D
edit: I didn't use the best one! Shit! "The snail is moving slow, because the snail wants to move slow. It is not going to move any faster or any slower, because this is the speed the snail likes to go at" xD

On topic: I am absolutely with you on this. "Pure" Psychedelics like Psylocybin, LSD, Mescaline and so on are like a catalyst. You experience the world in a much stronger way, but you will also experience yourself in a much stronger way. If by nature you are not very empathic, or if the setting was bad, the trip might make you do things your inhibitions or general understanding of social morals would otherwise stop you from.
I have never heard something like that from MDMA, and it really does actively work on your empathy. I have a small form of autism(AS), and when I was young I couldn't really tell if a person was happy, sad, angry, I had to actively read body/mimical signs to define their mood. MDMA made that go away entirely, and it's something I am still thankful for. It's not like I wasn't empathic, I felt very strongly for the person once I knew what was up, but I just could never really tell 100%.
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MDxx type drugs seem to help in a lasting sense with reading people and social situations, can definitely see that helping.

And I agree, good tea needs time to breathe man, if you make coffee or tea in a hurry regardless of the quality of the materials, you're gonna end up with a shittier drink than you could have if you actually tried.

And I don't know of animals think about time or pacing in a faster slower sense, I think it's kinda just like "'shit is happening man, sometimes its intense and sometimes its mellow".

Like someone listening to music who doesn't know musical terms would just describe the increase and decrease in volume and tempo as " swelling" or " receding" or something more organic and ocean like perhaps. Idk. I'm very high.
 
FuckinAcidMan said:
MDxx type drugs seem to help in a lasting sense with reading people and social situations, can definitely see that helping.

And I agree, good tea needs time to breathe man, if you make coffee or tea in a hurry regardless of the quality of the materials, you're gonna end up with a shittier drink than you could have if you actually tried.
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I'm glad we understand each other about the tea :D
Great talking to you!
 
whiteHot said:
Hi there,

I have some experience with MDMA and while I like the empathogenic effect of the drug, I dislike the stimulating, "speedy" part. I was wondering whether empathogenic downers exist, i.e. a substance which is both empathogenic and anxiolytic. Does anybody know such a substance?

Thanks and take care.
Click to expand...
Sorry for hijacking your thread, man :p
I have heard that Eden, that's MDBD if i'm correct, has a much more relaxing effect, while still being very empathogenic. Lower dopamine levels, though
 
ibtisam midlet said:
Pregabaline has some empathogenic effect and it's downer but not strong like MDMA
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Hi there I don't know if this would interest you at all but I have been a daily kava drinker for 1-year now and for me it has some resemblances to the effects of MDMA. kava has significant sociable aspects to it and can feel similar in some ways to the MDMA experience.

But Kava, by nature is kind of sedating and muscularly relaxing and calming to the mind and anxiety.

It affects a wide variety of chemicals in the brain depending on the specific make-up of actives in any particular cultivar of kava.
 
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PsychedelicSummer said:
5-MAPB is empatogenic and a lot less speedy than MDMA, though still a bit stimulating. Maybe if you ad like 500 mg of Phenibut it could be what you're looking for?
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I hear this one being well enjoyed by many. It has quite a good recreatiinal reputation, and I haven't heard too much downside if any from it, besides what you typically accept as "part of the parcel" taking any kind of stimulant.

Just nicely high on good, clean LSD, Kava and cannabis tonight here! Really nice combo that.
 
I forgot to say above in relation to kava drinkers who have recently tested positive for MDMA interestingly, too many times within the kava community to be a coincidence.
 
whiteHot said:
Hi there,

I have some experience with MDMA and while I like the empathogenic effect of the drug, I dislike the stimulating, "speedy" part. I was wondering whether empathogenic downers exist, i.e. a substance which is both empathogenic and anxiolytic. Does anybody know such a substance?

Thanks and take care.
Click to expand...

whitehot, we are exactly alike. I HATE stimulants, it gives me nothing but panic attacks and paranoid idiocy all day while completely nullifying all positive effects of the drug. Out of 3 rolls on MDMA I only had one successful one and I've been looking for alternatives since. I never tried any of these so don't take my word for it but I heard MDEA is less speedy, so is 5-APB. GHB is also on the list and apparently makes you horny as fuck. I do phenibut all the time but the empathogenic effects are minimal so can't really compare that one. I would avoid kava because it just adds adrenaline to your system and seems a stimulant but who knows how your body chemistry is.

Good luck and keep us updated.
 
December Flower said:
Sorry for hijacking your thread, man :p
I have heard that Eden, that's MDBD if i'm correct, has a much more relaxing effect, while still being very empathogenic. Lower dopamine levels, though
Click to expand...

It’s MBDB, but a good suggestion regardless ;) One I’ve always wanted to try but probably won’t..

5-MAPB is one id also suggest but I’ve never found it as much of downer, at least the good product... It’s just not very stimulating, but still does have ever so mild stimulant properties.

MDEA would be another option but again rare. It’d have to be self synthesized. Same as MDMA except switch out the methylamine/nitromethane for ethylamine/nitroethane. I’ve heard mixed reports though with some saying it’s still pretty stimulating others saying very sedating.

Mescaline in the form of cactus can sometimes be sedating depending on the other alkaloids present.

MDAI is said to be somewhat sedating as it hits almost purely on serotonin with very little dopamine effect.

MDA can sometimes be “Mongy” in the sense your stimulated but still laid out in a puddle. But this one is hit or miss, other times your ultra stimmed.

-GC
 
I'm surprised nobody mentioned 2C-B. it's a great drug and much less stimulating than MDMA. The come up is more gradual and doesn't hit as hard, it also lacks the typical anxiety / discomfort of stimulants. IME it feels more natural and warm and pupil dilation is less apparent. I personally prefer it over X.

EDIT:
couple of more things:
- sexually enhancing, but more "normal" and not an insatiable hunger for perversion like with MDMA.
- less, if any vasoconstriction

Music also sounds better on it, while molly by itself has no such effect on me, so you should treat this post as anecdotal evidence.
 
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