Are humans made to naturally eat meat

[Higherfocus420]

That is false.

So if you are a vegetarian not vegan what are you missing out on ?

 

[birdup]

I don't understand the question?

I'll try to answer it anyway.

I would be missing out on many of my favourite foods if I was either vegan or vegetarian.

If I was vegan, I'd also be missing out on B12. There is no natural source for this that is adequately bioavailable... But even if there was, they aren't natural.

The closest thing to bioavailable B12 is soil.

You go ahead and eat soil.

I'm going to go cook some scallops, which (by the way) are as sentient as plants. So let me ask you a question.

If you refuse to eat ethically sustainable meats what are you missing out on?

What's the difference ethically between a scallop and a potato scallop?

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

@Higherfocus420

Good for him. It takes roughly a decade before the silent damage that veganism does to you becomes apparent. Like cigarettes. At that point, it is too late. Maybe some people (again, like cigarettes) can eat vegan their entire life without supplementing and be totally fine but I doubt it.

As @assclass said, it doesn't really seem like you want to have a discussion. You've already made up your mind.

Let me ask you this, does Lionel whatever his name is take supplements? It is impossible to be anything but unhealthy if you are a "natural" vegan. That was your question at the beginning of this post: what is natural. Veganism sure as fuck isn't... And vegetarians rely on the meat industry don't they?

Go eat a burger. You know you want to.

When you’re an international football star I’m sure you can afford every supplement in the world, along with the best doctors to monitor your condition.

Talking about prospering as a Vegan, I must say I do believe it’s possible. I say that because there’s this YouTuber that goes by the name VeganGains that is strictly vegan & he bodybuilds. He makes all kinds of videos claiming that nobody needs meat to survive, let alone to be healthy and bodybuild.

His physique is getting pretty impressive these days.

I think anybody that truly disbelieves that a human can survive on a vegan diet should check out VeganGains’ videos: https://youtube.com/c/VeganGains

 

[birdup]

There are other dietary requirements that are important aside from B12 which are basically impossible to get naturally if you are vegan including numerous chains of omega fatty acids, calcium (this is why vegans have shit teeth) and other essential vitamins and minerals.

Vegans require a fistful of supplements on a weekly basis and it is not clear that they are sufficiently bioavailable to be effective. Either way, it is - clearly - the least natural way to live.

My 93 year old grandmother takes less pills than your average vegan.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

by the end of the century humans living on the 5D earth will no longer need to eat food and will photosyntheize directly from the sun

 

[birdup]

You crack me up.

 

[birdup]

@LaCuNa

I'm not going to look at that dude because I wouldn't believe what bodybuilders do or don't put in their body if they paid me.

My beach house was built by an Olympic bodybuilder, apparently. He used to train weightlifters by getting them to move big rocks from the beach up into his back yard.

So, now we've got these fucking rocks.

How long has he been vegan, this guy?

What silent damage are we unaware of?

Even if they had hoses going in his mouth and out his asshole for 20 years, testing every bodily fluid... I would still suspect damage.

It's not healthy.

Meat is good.

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

@LaCuNa

I'm not going to look at that dude because I wouldn't believe what bodybuilders do or don't put in their body if they paid me.

My beach house was built by an Olympic bodybuilder, apparently. He used to train weightlifters by getting them to move big rocks from the beach up into his back yard.

So, now we've got these fucking rocks.

How long has he been vegan, this guy?

What silent damage are we unaware of?

Even if they had hoses going in his mouth and out his asshole for 20 years, testing every bodily fluid... I would still suspect damage.

It's not healthy.

Meat is good.

I eat meat too(although these days I’ve been gravitating more towards seafood).

This guy is 100% anti roids and anti carnivore. Trust me he’s as legit as it gets.

 

[Higherfocus420]

There are other dietary requirements that are important aside from B12 which are basically impossible to get naturally if you are vegan including numerous chains of omega fatty acids, calcium (this is why vegans have shit teeth) and other essential vitamins and minerals.

Vegans require a fistful of supplements on a weekly basis and it is not clear that they are sufficiently bioavailable to be effective. Either way, it is - clearly - the least natural way to live.

My 93 year old grandmother takes less pills than your average vegan.

Yea but if your just a vegetarian like I am then what am I missing out on as it seem to me iron is the hardest thing to make up for other than that what else and nowdays even meat eaters are deficient in b12 as all their food is altered with pesticides a d stuff and vitamin b12 comes from the soil also I don't give a fuck if someone does or doesn't eat meat do what u what my girlfriend eats loads of neat but a lot of meats do cause cancer and it's really bad for the environment

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

i eat eggs everyday - they're essentail to my diet...eggs and veggies every morning


and i eat pork on the reg - once or twice a week.....but i i almost never eat beef unless i decide to have a burger, which is only a couple times a year


fish once a week or 2 - i can't eat shellfish or my throat closes and i die, but hey, at least i wont die from tetanus if i step on a rusty nail



but i do think we're supposed to eat some meat for sure, evolutionarily speaking

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

and i disagree with eating more seafood than meat being more healthy - only in certain circumstances would that be true....meat pumped with hormones and whatnot as opposed to grass-fed pasture raised livestock - big difference there - so it depends on quality big time

 

[G_Chem]

When you’re an international football star I’m sure you can afford every supplement in the world, along with the best doctors to monitor your condition.

Talking about prospering as a Vegan, I must say I do believe it’s possible. I say that because there’s this YouTuber that goes by the name VeganGains that is strictly vegan & he bodybuilds. He makes all kinds of videos claiming that nobody needs meat to survive, let alone to be healthy and bodybuild.

His physique is getting pretty impressive these days.

I think anybody that truly disbelieves that a human can survive on a vegan diet should check out VeganGains’ videos: https://youtube.com/c/VeganGains

VeganGains deficits show in the form of reduced cognition. He thinks we should kill all meat eating animals for gods sakes. Also as someone else reviewing Gains has said, he’s all arms and photoshops hardcore as well.

I think just because a lucky few can make it work doesn’t mean much. I know a couple people that can use heroin once in a great while, doesn’t mean it’s a smart thing to try it.

I just went through his latest videos, I don’t look at him as a model of fitness. He looks overweight, usually talks slow and out of breath constantly, if I scrapped with that MF I’d be running circles around him.

I’ve looked over multiple vegan bodybuilders and have yet to be impressed. The only one that makes even a little sense is DestroyingAntiVeganNonsense. But even he’s aged tremendously in the face..

Collagen is so important for skin health, ligament and joint health. That’s why me and my wife still look in our 20’s despite everything I’ve been through. Countless videos of vegans aging faster than normal with tons of wrinkles, grey hair, teeth falling out, I’m good on all that.

Yea but if your just a vegetarian like I am then what am I missing out on as it seem to me iron is the hardest thing to make up for other than that what else and nowdays even meat eaters are deficient in b12 as all their food is altered with pesticides a d stuff and vitamin b12 comes from the soil also I don't give a fuck if someone does or doesn't eat meat do what u what my girlfriend eats loads of neat but a lot of meats do cause cancer and it's really bad for the environment

B12 is made by bacteria and archaeon, 100g soil with fresh “excreta” contains only .005mcg usable b12. To get your DV you’d need to eat 48 kilos of dirt with “fresh excreta.”

Also read this study and tell me meat eaters are still deficient. Out of 226 omnivores, 1 was deficient. Contrast that with 52% of vegans.

EPIC-Oxford — Cancer Epidemiology Unit (CEU)

The Oxford component of the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition investigates the relationship between diet and the incidence of cancer

www.epic-oxford.org

I’m done with this.. It’s hard to argue against individuals that have failing cognition from missing nutrients and tons of anti-nutrients in their diet. My good friend was vegetarian a long time, until I heard his body fat had dropped to 2%. I got on him cuz at that level your body is eating brain for fat reserves. It took me sending countless research articles before he’d stop arguing nonsense and listen. He’s since doing a lot better both mentally and physically since adding meat back in.

What I think grinds me more than anything is every vegan I know eats less whole fresh plants than I do.. When I make this argument I sound like someone that eats burgers and pork chops daily. A diet focused on plants is ideal, but only if balanced with clean meats and fats. Most vegans just start eating nasty processed foods instead of actually eating healthy.

-GC

 

[birdup]

@Higherfocus420

I never said you're missing out on anything in terms of nutrition if you're a vegetarian, but everybody is different. As Krinkle said, if he eats seafood he dies. My wife and my mother in law have issues absorbing iron. They have repeatedly tested under safe levels despite eating meat. It is unhealthy for them to become vegetarian. It is unhealthy for Krinkle to eat shellfish.

Some people can smoke cigarettes their whole life and never develop any health issues. I know an 80 year old woman who has smoked a pack a day for over six decades and she's fit as a fiddle. I'm not going to conclude that smoking is healthy.

Most people I know who've become vegans, have ended up developing health issues. If there is a bodybuilder out there that doesn't develop health issues - again - I'm not going to conclude that veganism is healthy.

When I go vegetarian, certain things improve. I have digestive issues (IBS) and these are largely fixed by a vegetarian diet but I fart a lot more. I also get way more reflux from vegetables. Certain veggies are much worse, but they are all worse than meat.

My main issue with not eating meat is: I'm constantly hungry and fluctuating between energized/tired. I don't want to eat all day. Veganism is way worse in that department. I'm just as hungry after finishing a meal when I'm vegan.

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about me.

What are you missing out on?

Maybe nothing, but that doesn't mean I should stop eating meat. I know you're not asking me to stop eating meat, although you are making ethical/moral judgements of meat eaters with statements like this:

a lot of meats do cause cancer and it's really bad for the environment

First of all, the cancer thing is not clear. The science is not complete. People who eat a higher ratio of red meat to vegetables are more likely to develop certain cancers, but correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation.

People who neglect mainstream dietary advice and eat double bacon cheeseburgers every day are more likely to indulge in other unhealthy habits.

I am not convinced that red meat causes cancer.

As for the environment, lots of stuff we do (including mass producing and transporting vegetables) is bad for the environment.

Meat isn't (necessarily) bad for the environment. That is too broad a statement.

If I eat ethically sustainable locally farmed fish species, is that worse for the environment than eating mass produced vegetables?

If I hunt or go fishing, is that worse for the environment?

What if I eat witchetty grubs?

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

ya gotta remember too with fish, the water they swim in isn't exactly the cleanest - so there's issues there too

but that farm-raised steelhead is probably my favorite at the store

salmon is hit and miss - there's that one big run of fresh sockeye that comes out in June that comes from Alaska - that's killer....i like sockeye....copper river salmon...yeeaaa


i'll fry up or bake some cod sometimes - that's my second favorite

catfish - love that too - fried in cornmeal - yeeeaaaaaaa - that's actually the best nevermind

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Ostrich was a thing for a while

i used to go to a restaurant that i lived near that served ostrich medallions that were killer

ostrich burgers too

 

[Asclepius]

Yes.

 

[Higherfocus420]

@Higherfocus420

I never said you're missing out on anything in terms of nutrition if you're a vegetarian, but everybody is different. As Krinkle said, if he eats seafood he dies. My wife and my mother in law have issues absorbing iron. They have repeatedly tested under safe levels despite eating meat. It is unhealthy for them to become vegetarian. It is unhealthy for Krinkle to eat shellfish.

Some people can smoke cigarettes their whole life and never develop any health issues. I know an 80 year old woman who has smoked a pack a day for over six decades and she's fit as a fiddle. I'm not going to conclude that smoking is healthy.

Most people I know who've become vegans, have ended up developing health issues. If there is a bodybuilder out there that doesn't develop health issues - again - I'm not going to conclude that veganism is healthy.

When I go vegetarian, certain things improve. I have digestive issues (IBS) and these are largely fixed by a vegetarian diet but I fart a lot more. I also get way more reflux from vegetables. Certain veggies are much worse, but they are all worse than meat.

My main issue with not eating meat is: I'm constantly hungry and fluctuating between energized/tired. I don't want to eat all day. Veganism is way worse in that department. I'm just as hungry after finishing a meal when I'm vegan.

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about me.

What are you missing out on?

Maybe nothing, but that doesn't mean I should stop eating meat. I know you're not asking me to stop eating meat, although you are making ethical/moral judgements of meat eaters with statements like this:



First of all, the cancer thing is not clear. The science is not complete. People who eat a higher ratio of red meat to vegetables are more likely to develop certain cancers, but correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation.

People who neglect mainstream dietary advice and eat double bacon cheeseburgers every day are more likely to indulge in other unhealthy habits.

I am not convinced that red meat causes cancer.

As for the environment, lots of stuff we do (including mass producing and transporting vegetables) is bad for the environment.

Meat isn't (necessarily) bad for the environment. That is too broad a statement.

If I eat ethically sustainable locally farmed fish species, is that worse for the environment than eating mass produced vegetables?

If I hunt or go fishing, is that worse for the environment?

What if I eat witchetty grubs?

Ivel never said it judge anyone for eating meat I use to love it I'm just stating that I can live a healthy life without the need for it if you dont over eat And yes mass fishing isbad for the environment and over eating if certain meats gas been linked with heart disease etc

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

How is this a discussion? We are omnivorous. Period.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

i love falafel

i would eat lots of falafal if i was a veggard

beans get played out after a while

and i hate lentils

if i eat too many fruits and veggies i just have painful stinky gas all the time

no gas from meat

 

[birdup]

@Higherfocus420

I didn't mean to imply that you are coming from a place of judgement, but it's kind of hard to avoid (judging people) when you have conversations about this stuff. You are saying: I'm a vegetarian and vegetarianism is better. I've been in your position before. I used to preach - much louder and more obnoxiously than you are - and people got pissed off. Rightly so. You have been careful not to judge and I appreciate that. You're a better vegetarian than I was.

The links to heart disease are not concrete. It's actually very difficult to determine what causes cancer / heart disease and what doesn't. Almost all cancers have been linked to a genetic mutation that a small percent of the population carries. It seems you are more likely to develop cancer if you have these mutations and you smoke. If you haven't inherited the mutations, the odds of developing lung cancer are (from what I understand) pretty close to those who don't smoke.

I didn't say mass fishing. I said fish farms. I only fish for sustainable species. There are strict rules in Australia about what you're allowed to catch and I take those rules seriously. The species I catch are abundant along the north east coast.

They've started to reconsider the sizing regulations for tuna. New evidence suggests that it is better to eat small fish rather than big fish. Hunting all the big fish (potentially) has more of a dramatic impact on the overall tuna pop because they are so over-fished in some areas - like the waters surrounding Japan - and the big fish are the ones that produce fry.

I'm just stating that I can live a healthy life without the need for it

I can live a healthy life without the need for: television, computers, BlueLight, drugs, alcohol, etc. You can live a healthy life as a vegetarian. You can also live a healthy life as a heroin addict. I'm not saying vegetarianism is unhealthy. I'm just questioning your logic by applying it to different situations.

You can live a healthy life without coal, right?

So stop using coal.

As for over eating meat, I know a super healthy family that only eats animal products. They are part of my wife's extended family. When I first met them, it was over Christmas dinner. They said we only eat meat and organs. I thought they were joking. They are all health conscious and very fit.

The best historical example of overconsuming meat is indigenous Canadians.

I don't think this is all as black and white as you think it is.

But - the main problem with your argument - is this (and I've said this like three times now): if you are not a vegan, you are still relying on the meat industry.

What would you say if a vegan said to you, "I can live a healthy life without milk" or "I can live a healthy life without eggs". Surely both statements are true, yet - presumably - you consume both?