• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ
  • PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Are big doses really "heroic"?

On the topic of semantics:

I agree that the term "heroic dose" is a poor choice of words.

I think something like "fully immersive dose" would be much more appropriate.

Like I've always said: McKenna's elf-like ramblings are entertaining to listen to while stoned, but they contain some wacky and potentially dangerous ideas.
 
^^ Re: McKenna -- undeniably wacky and fun to listen to stoned, but I don't recall thinking that anything he said or any advice he gave was dangerous.

Of course, there's the conclusion that "if you're not afraid you've taken too much, you haven't taken enough". I think, however, that if you're a responsible tripper, mind your set/setting, and take care to avoid physically toxic doses, there is no such thing as a dangerous dosage (of a serotonergic psychedelic).


I've also always thought that the ++++ rank within the Shulgin scale was practically useless. It's too vague and ambiguous. A "connectedness with both interior and exterior universes"? I feel that shit every day.
 
^To be fair to Shulgin, the kind of experience he's talking about is really ineffable, so any attempt to describe it is doomed from the outset. I suppose it's a little like trying to explain what it is like to be in love.
 
i am in total agreement with the original poster.. when i hear people use the term heroic dose im thinking "shut the fuck up 8)"

and way to miss the point.. anyone taking a huge dose of psychedelics to be heroic is only trying to add something to their ego by becoming "that guy who takes a shit load of drugs at once."
 
In agreement here as well, and lets face it many of these heroic dosing people probably were shitting them selves while in the trip. But after the trip they rant on about how much it taught them and how much they learned by letting their ego be raped. But in reality during the trip it was total chaos in their minds with no sense of piecing anything together.. which in the end shouldn't really be something that is helping or teaching you?, is it?
 
"Heroic dose" reminds me of the "heroic age of medicine"

and McKenna is a kook. a softer, funnier, more likeable, less problematic kook than the likes of leary, pinchbeck & gray, but still a kook.
 
^ Oh yeah. Likeable, hence my defense on his behalf, but any man with a head on his shoulders takes what the dude says with a grain of salt or three. :D
 
Yerg said:
Recently, the convention of referring to high doses of psychedelics as "heroic" has been bothering me. It seems to me that the underlying attitude is the same as considering oneself a big man for being able to drink twenty pints in a sitting. The idea behind this is "look at me, I can withstand the most intense assaults on my ego, go to the most far out places". I think it sends an irresponsible message to those just starting out; they read things like "I took a heroic dose", and they think that it's big and clever to take whopping doses of drugs. The truth is, any idiot can eat a fistful of mushrooms or drink a bottle of acid; that doesn't make you a hero. What's more, I find that the people who have this attitude, who seek more and more extreme experiences, to test themselves to the ultimate, are often the ones who end up in trouble. I submit that we should abandon this convention, which perpetuates a culture of machismo and one-upmanship, and instead promote responsible use by simply referring to large doses as "large doses". I'm not saying that people shouldn't push them limits, or take big doses; I just think the use of the phrase leads to unhealthy attitudes and behaviours.
Click to expand...
It comes from medicine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroic_measure
 
atara's definition aside I always took "heroic dose" to be an ironic term, really meaning moronic dose or stupidly large dose something like that. in internet lingo these days there is the verb to "an hero" oneself which means to commit suicide, and in some cases "heroic" doses could be close to suicidal doses so in modern internet lingo it does make sense.
 
Yerg said:
Recently, the convention of referring to high doses of psychedelics as "heroic" has been bothering me. It seems to me that the underlying attitude is the same as considering oneself a big man for being able to drink twenty pints in a sitting. The idea behind this is "look at me, I can withstand the most intense assaults on my ego, go to the most far out places". I think it sends an irresponsible message to those just starting out; they read things like "I took a heroic dose", and they think that it's big and clever to take whopping doses of drugs. The truth is, any idiot can eat a fistful of mushrooms or drink a bottle of acid; that doesn't make you a hero. What's more, I find that the people who have this attitude, who seek more and more extreme experiences, to test themselves to the ultimate, are often the ones who end up in trouble. I submit that we should abandon this convention, which perpetuates a culture of machismo and one-upmanship, and instead promote responsible use by simply referring to large doses as "large doses". I'm not saying that people shouldn't push them limits, or take big doses; I just think the use of the phrase leads to unhealthy attitudes and behaviours.
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth.
 
chasing_s said:
atara's definition aside I always took "heroic dose" to be an ironic term, really meaning moronic dose or stupidly large dose something like that. in internet lingo these days there is the verb to "an hero" oneself which means to commit suicide, and in some cases "heroic" doses could be close to suicidal doses so in modern internet lingo it does make sense.
Click to expand...

McKenna et al were taking psychs long before the Internet was around...

I think "immersive", "exploratory" or "retarded" are good adjectives for doses of ridiculous volume.
 
I think Heroic doses are something much different than rediculously large or moronic doses.

The difference between a ridiculously large dose, and a heroic dose is the INTENT of the experience.

If you have some serious issues going on that are mentally and emotionally causing problems for you in major ways, and you want to get to the bottom of them and resolve them for yourself in order to improve your way of living permanently by changing your entire perception of the universe then taking a really large dose could be considered a heroic dose. It really depends on what your definition of Heroic is.

I mean, sometimes a large dose of LSD or something else can be life changing and essentially save someones life.... is that not heroic?

I understand in this sense of the word though its only usable in hindsight, as most people dont USUALLY shoot for those types of experiences. But those who are shooting for them could be considering them Heroic doses depending on what their intent in taking the dose is...


Does anyone at all agree with this?
 
^ From a Harm Reduction standpoint, the most idiotic thing you can do to yourself if you have a mental issue, regardless of intent, is take a "heroic" dose of psychedelics without the supervision of an experienced psychedelic therapist (good luck finding one, heh).

Intent has absolutely nothing to do with dose.
 
I think it's not our duty to be the naming police. If people are stupid enough to take a large dose because of the name then that's their problem.
 
I'll attempt a "heroic dose" only once, and I'm saving it for the right place and the right time, just when I need it. It'll be the first time and most probably the only time i'll manage to attempt self exploration, most probably wont even then, I just cant do it when I take psychs, I need to run around and shit myself laughing, and act like a monkey.
 
sheepie said:
I think it's not our duty to be the naming police. If people are stupid enough to take a large dose because of the name then that's their problem.
Click to expand...

It's the entire community's responsibility to improve the public perception of psychedelics. The existence of terms like "heroic dose" work against that goal, so I think we owe it to ourselves and each other to try to replace it with something less reckless-sounding.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top