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Are all empathogenics neurotoxic? What is a substitute?

B

Bmw4a

Greenlighter
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Aug 3, 2016
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Hi all, don't crucify me please I did try searching the forum for this question.

While I have been a bit stupid I started in June, at a party and at a festival, and then also a fair bit in June and only just really read up on it so I'm up to speed with all the effects and guidelines however it has left me with a question.

Is there any drug that can make you feel that love for people that isn't related to MDMA so you can interchange between the two?? I think that's what I like most about MDMA but obviously I can't just take it I'm going to limit myself to once a month.


While I'm here what's some fun festival drugs that are a good replacement for MDMA as all my friends will be rolling and while I will be once or twice, I don't want to a. Damage myself and b. Lose the magic.

Also, they say a lot of MDMA experiences are very related to your mind so surely if you are thinking about losing the magic you are more likely to do so?
 
Sorry, but if there were a real answer to your question then everyone here would be using it, and it's against Bluelight's policy for us to recommend drugs for you to take. Just don't use MDMA too often.
 
mdma probably isn't neurotoxic at recreational doses (most evidence for neurotoxicity has been either disproven or rendered irrelevant because they used way too high doses in the animals). and even if mdma were neurotoxic, that's the least of your worries. alcohol is proven to be neurotoxic without a doubt. the real dangers of mdma are overheating, or depression/anxiety/... due to serotonin system dysregulation. everything is explainable without invoking neurotoxicity and even without neurotoxicity you'll have enough reason to keep your doses low and your breaks long to minimise your risk for said possible side effects.

there is no drug that can replace mdma (or at least no drug that doesn't share mdma's mechanism of action and dangers). you'll find certain familiar elements in other drugs (amphetamine, psychedelics, ghb, ..) but they all lack integral parts of the mdma experience and bring their own dangers to the table.
 
Experiments done by Shulgin highlighted that taking MDMA followed by MDA saw no reduction in the effects of the MDA.

IE if you take MDMA day one followed by MDA day two there appears to be limited to no noticeable tolerance cross decrease of effects.

So MDA may well be acting differently. Personally I think it's conjecture as MDA is way more taxing due to increase psych effect, his studies were for smaller amounts, than found in the average pill, his findings are totally based on the quality of the MDMA / MDA. He had pure controlled samples. We don't. And importantly his setting was low key compared to the OP who will be in a high energy environment.
 
The sensation and chemical logistics behind empathogens is what's causing the good effects and the bad ones. You simply can't feel like you're on MDMA without a negative rebound effect or downregulation.

LSD however agonizes serotonin receptors and can cause similar euphoria, energy, and empathy in the right situations though. You just can't guarantee those effects.
 
Itsgoneundertheboa said:
Experiments done by Shulgin highlighted that taking MDMA followed by MDA saw no reduction in the effects of the MDA.

IE if you take MDMA day one followed by MDA day two there appears to be limited to no noticeable tolerance cross decrease of effects.

So MDA may well be acting differently. Personally I think it's conjecture as MDA is way more taxing due to increase psych effect, his studies were for smaller amounts, than found in the average pill, his findings are totally based on the quality of the MDMA / MDA. He had pure controlled samples. We don't. And importantly his setting was low key compared to the OP who will be in a high energy environment.
Click to expand...

Yes, MDMA can cause reversal of the serotonin transporter which leads to serotonin dumping into the synapse, whereas MDA can bind directly to serotonin receptors and basically mimic serotonin, but with more specificity for which serotonin receptor it binds to.

The "reserves" or vesicles of serotonin may run a little low when using MDMA repeatedly, but MDA can bypass the reserves and act as a serotonin mimic directly, hence MDA may not have as much tolerance associated with it.
 
What about 2cb? I havent tried it yet but i have read 2cb can make you feel empathetic but without the horrendous come down of MDMA?

If you want a completely safe drug there is also mescaline cacti. But these are a true psychedelic and you need a carefully controlled set and setting if you want to generate empathetic feelings off these things.

Personally however, I look forward to experimenting with 2cb
 
In my opinion 2C-B is nowhere near as similar to MDMA as many make out. To me it's simply another psychedelic. Maybe there can be similarities in the body high and at doses of 10-15mg it can be a nice mild buzz which could maybe sub for MDMA, but it's really not that similar in effects IMO.
 
I've had 2c-B way back in 1999 when they came around, they were hard to differentiate from microdots (which were still everywhere and as common as blotter then). And than a decade later. It's a fun sensual short lasting no-mindfuck psychedelic, at least at the undisclosed doses in the Nexus, that's the street name for 2c-B up here, although much more used when it was everywhere way back in 99-2000-2001. Now it's a rare treat. I know for a fact (a joint task force, which only are created when enough evidence from multiple PD's make sense together and then are disbanded unlike in the US, took down the network who operated from Montreal, mafia types, sellin 2c-B, mdma, mda, meth pills, even pharm opiates). Someone related to the sixth family, the link between NY and Montreal, the Rizzutos. I know the guy who turned them in, he was caught like an imbecile, actually pulling out the trunk for the cops (which you don't have to at all, if it's locked, they'll have to bother with towing you and all that if you don't want to open it, and I learned that from an ACLU film, so if it works in America, it works here even more, like if asked to get out of your car, lock the door on your way out and if asked why you did it, say it's a habit and be smart and ask is there anything I can do for you officer? If you're not giving me any road infractions, I'd rather leave etc.) with 15000 meth pills coming from that operation. He did zero jail time and became a CI and turned the Montreal Mafia and their Hells Angels lieutenants against him. I saw him buying a 24 pack of beer at a store, and the tiny twit, he's like 5'2 max made quite the face when he saw me and looked extremely nervous. I bet his cellphone is getting a lot of death threats heh.I mean in all honesty, I think they were hurting no one, except with the HMContins 12,18 and 24 I got from him way back, everything else was not that harmful. Meth pills, people take halves of them and honestly, oral meth is really not that bad. Likely why they sell it here this way, looks less like hard drugs with all the nice logos on them, at least everyone knows that a white pill is meth, or maybe something much worse, but not those guys. That time I encountered a pill I suspect to be PMMA, a guy lost repeated business.

Man I'm glad to be out of all this since 2010, not that I was selling, but all the BS that comes with anything other than weed/hash dealers.
 
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