• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist

Apple Cider Vinegar?

^^^word, Atlas is correct. Guys, no need to get worked up.
I use the popular Braggs brand (Apple cider vinegar, Liquid Aminos) and so does my whole family (a very good brand if I may say so.) This is the website which is good reading for anybody interested. ( Naysayers and those who are quick to say its a website with an agenda , save your breath. This isnt the place for you.)
http://www.bragg.com/
http://www.bragg.com/FAQ/faq_applecider.html
 
^^ An interesting read, I just would like to know how exactly the ACV acts like a "sponge" for "toxins"..

I'm not dispelling that ACV works to improve bodily health, as I'm sure it does (considering I had enough faith to put $2 into a bottle).. I'm just very unclear as to how it works.
 
In Japan you can get brown rice/apple cider vinegar. Some kinds have honey included, making it easier to drink. It's actually fairly popular and you can find several different varieties in the pharmacies...
 
I gave it a go right after i started this thread and i gotta say it definately given me a boost in energy and somehow clears my head when coming down from speed which is a plus.I started drinking it three times, before every meal, but now im just goin with 1-2 times a day.I microwave 250 mL of water for 2 min, mix in 1 tbsp. of pure honey until dissolved then add 2 tbsp. of ACV.I recently read that ingesting microwaved anything is horrible for me and to top it off the chlorine in my water isnt doing me any good either so this might just be counter productive.E
 
I gave it a go right after i started this thread and i gotta say its definately given me a boost in energy and somehow clears my head when coming down from speed which is a plus.I started drinking it three times daily, before every meal, but now im just goin with 1-2 times a day.I microwave 250 mL of water for 2 min, mix in 1 tbsp. of pure unprocessed honey until dissolved then add 2 tbsp. of ACV.I recently read that ingesting microwaved anything is horrible for me and to top it off the chlorine in my water isnt doing me any good either so this might just be counter productive.Either way im gonna die horribly like anyone else which is why i wont treat this stuff like my ticket to salvation or anything.

I just wanted to know about personal experiences which is basically what keeps this stuff going in the first place.Personnaly i think its good and should be tried, then take it from there.I'l keep drinking it, its a good boost in the morning and calming at night although i put in a bit less honey at night.

I have another question hopefully someone can answer:Could there be any neggative effects of consuming honey everyday even though i probably consume more processed sugar everyday anyways?

Peace:)
 
a) what is this "pure honey"

b) why would ingesting microwaved water be bad for you

c) most water is treated with chloramine, not chlorine. At any rate, it passes through you with no fuss whatsoever.
 
'Pure honey' is unprocessed honey, its in a cristalized form at room temperature.

Supposedly the microwaves alter cell stucture and theres more i just dont remember.Maybe its b/s but i wouldn't be surprised if there were negative effects from using microwaves on a regular basis.
 
Science please people, not blind faith and unfounded claims stated as fact.

Apple cider vinegar is a weak acid - it won't cause any radical change in stomach pH or blood plasma, or renal acidity.

The amount of potassium found in the vinegar is small. Potassium is easily obtained from bananas, legumes, tomatoes or citrus fruits (last 2 are very good sources). Or there's always potassium chloride, found on any supermarket shelf.

There have actually been reported cases of where ACV has been suspected to cause a lowering of potassium levels, although I haven't seen the medical literature on this. Also, because of sugars present in the vinegar, it should be approached with care by anyone with diabetes. Plain old clear vinegar would be a better alternative to these people.

We produce acetic acid and acetates in our bodies all the time. The acetate ion is the most essential part of the Krebs or citric acid cycle - without which you would die in an instant. Citrate is produced from the actions of citrate synthase on acetyl-CoA and oxaloacetate.

Ethanol, yes alcohol, is metabolized into - wait for it - acetic acid, and because of the ethanol produced in the gut and from other metabolic processes, that occurs normally without consuming any alcohol - or vinegar.


As for arthritis and psoriasis; My mother took apple cider vinegar almost everyday for most of her life. She simply loved to have a bowel of home grown onions and tomatoes soaking in the vinegar. Today in her late seventies, she is plagued by severe arthritis and psoriasis, and she can't touch apple cider vinegar as it gives her unbearable indigestion. I also know of another lady who developed a terrible form of arthritis at around age 30, and she had been a religious daily consumer of ACV. So I'd hardly call it a preventative, or a panacea for arthritis type disorders.


People with gastric, peptic or oesophageal ulcers need to be very careful with ACV. It might be a weak acid, but it can still strip some of the protective mucous lining off the stomach. As a natural response, the stomach will often release more HCl which, as Atlas said, is a strong acid, and will cause irritation to susceptible individuals. ACV may assist slightly in the digestion of some fats and it will act as a buffer ( sodium acetate) when in parts of the digestive environment, which may in turn affect the release of pepsin and other enzymes. So there may be something to some the digestive claims.

However, from years of observation, the best application for acetic acid is a topical one, used to cure candida or yeast infections. It's mild in that sense- although it will sting like razor cuts - but because it's acidic it will neutralize the alkaline environment that thrush and other nasty fungi create, and thrive in.


In saying all that, I love balsamic vinegar in my special french dressing. Just for the taste though.


Shit I'm opening up an entirely different issue... main thing is forget science to prove every damn thing to you in order to believe it.

I bet you're the type of person who doesn't believe in the science that gives you all the wonderful toys and lifestyle products you take for granted. Plastics, medicines, foods, etc etc, all born from the world of chemistry. And what of the successful medical products that save thousands of lives everyday?

Go and learn the science before attempting to undermine the principles responsible for us progressing as a species. Science is advancing all the time. What was allowed once - born often through necessity, and so advanced with childlike ignorance or half understanding - is today much more scrutinized and thoroughly evaluated.

When applied properly to nutrition, Scientific understanding is the reason why some people can survive on vegan and other diets. Those who don't check the body's requirements and insure they get sufficient of the nutrients etc required, usually suffer hideously later in life. I can cite many examples, from rotten teeth, to liver failure, to osteoarthritis in 30 year old males.

Science is still in it's infancy in the sense that it can't as yet explain everything, and because of that, mistakes will be made. But in that sense, it's getting closer to ideal every day. It's an exciting time to study science - and important IMO, or you'll simply find yourself arguing in ignorance with no rational founding - and that looks, and is, really pathetic. As we draw closer to unwrapping the mysteries of the mind and how the brain functions, we will someday soon cure some of the most ghastly diseases that have to date proved elusive or difficult to understand. Cancer cures will abound over the next 5 years. Many people are already cured by chemotherapy and similar methodologies. they may not be the best medicine, but the drugs are advancing all the time. Some of the newer platinum based chemo agents can be injected directly into the brain without destroying healthy cells, and have produced amazing results in trials.

Unfounded, esoteric based blind faith is why there is so much trouble in the world today. Learn some science, dig up the studies, then critically evaluate.
 
I bet you're the type of person who doesn't believe in the science that gives you all the wonderful toys and lifestyle products you take for granted. Plastics, medicines, foods, etc etc, all born from the world of chemistry. And what of the successful medical products that save thousands of lives everyday?

No not that type of person, but ofcourse we all take for granted the 'science' that made our yogurt containers right!

I'm ofcourse a Non-educated, ignorant, tree hugging, earth and nature loving, toxin hating, wanna go back to the stone age when everything was natural including the good old natural cycle of life type person..... or something like that.

Sure I have a t.v., carpet, and just about everything else around me has in all honnesty come from some sort of science, no doubt about that.

My question of you is this - If we as humans weren't so curious about what we call science but instead spent our energy on keeping with the basic natural forces of life, instead of filling it with chemicals, toxins (from all the science I guess) trying constantly to make our lives "easier" supposedly.... or spending most of our time trying to use science to cure the very problems we create in the name of science, I guess by products and such... and mabye instead of trying to do things like use science to get our cattle to grow larger faster, and produce more milk, and pumping them full of antibiotics(science) .... mabye we'd be much more content, mabye we'd get off the insane path we've gotten ourselves on, and live to raise our children in a natural world without all this shit around us... the very shit science has played a huge part in creating to begin with only to go later "uh oh, we just created cancer on a massive scale, or we just caused madcow CJ. disease... because science told us if we feed cattle animal protein let alone feeding them to themselves in effort to get more out of the animal... I can see how it all happened - some science driven mind sitting in a lab thinking hmm... what if we feed this to our animals? mabye we could get more out of this... only to find out that fucking with nature will ensure things fall out of balance and it doesn't take any brains to figure that one out...
as I said I'm surrounded by all this stuff, and I like a lot of it, I take my medications, I have 4 t.v.s in my house, I have a chev tahoe, and a 2stroke engine in my skidoo, my son fever has been kept down with tylenol and mabye thats saved his life I dont know... he's had his shots, and so has our dog, and the flee shit keeps the flees off the cat and dog too... My paper for my computer is white, and this keyboard is made from plastic and I quite enjoy typing on it, especially on this site.. Ive' done my share of street drugs in my lifetime I love the feeling of 2 blue butterflys, but then again XXX's have really made me feel almost insane after taking 4 in a 7-8hr period onenight... I love oxy's, and take morphine for pain...you name it my friend I'm there with ya!
All Im saying is mabye if we all changed our ways, mabye if we used minds like yours - as you seem well informed, and you talk the talk... props to you for that... But why not change our focus in this life and use that science to get back to basics and live far more fulfilling lives with people into science still at the healm using all that mental power to keep our lives and planet clean and keep it as close to the way it was all meant to be to begin with.. Mabye people like you with all this education could start to say "enough" its time we clean up this mess, and ensure our children have pure lives, instead of knowing even when they eat their veggies, and fruit from the store they are being slowly poisened by the science that is so focused on protecting the $$, and not the very people that matter...
I dont know man, not sure if you have children, but I gotta say that if you knew me and my past you'd know I'm not saint, I'm was never a naturalist, other than to smoke a lot of organic b.c. dope for years... cuz I wasn't into filling my lungs and blood with hydro-chem all beit great high dope... Since having kids all I want to do is protect them from harm, I almost want to go build a log house near a lake and stay away from city life because I dont want them thinking growing up in or near a giant concrete world full of chemicals, and a society that pushes us further and further down that path every day...
Sure the reality for a lot of us is city = cool, great, made it in the world, office job,never see a tree, never drink pure water from a stream but instead figure filtered water with a few chemicals thrown in to watch the legal repercussions, .... this goes on and on in my mind.. I just think we have it all so backwards... in so many ways.
However I'm with ya in other ways too... such as if my son got a disease right now that required science and every possible best cure available I'd be begging you for it without doubt. But I think if you guys put your incredible minds back into what truly matters, getting back to natural balance that was intended instead of going the other way... We'd be better off in a lot of ways... It'd take many generations to get back there, and to clean this life up, but don't you think we could go in another direction...?

I'm not anything, this is all unneducated opinion, but for some reason throughout all the substances Ive put into myself, and the longer I spend in a city the more I hear that little voice I think of as instinct telling me I'm on the wrong path...
Mabye you can answer this - was cancer here before man decided to mess around with everything?
Sure there were all kinds of diseases, and pain and death of natural causes...and naturally(I think) we have been constantly trying to beat those natural causes of death because we don't want to lose those close to us... but mabye its all about balance, not overpopulating, shreading the animal populations from the planet... etc..
what do you think.
 
But I think if you guys put your incredible minds back into what truly matters, getting back to natural balance that was intended instead of going the other way...

Well, that is happening now, and in a sense, has been for quite some time. It's important to realize that while science has undoubtedly played a part in most of societies woes, it's not always the scientists that decide whether something should be implemented or used, its business - the dollar kills remember.

Scientists have been advocating environmental management and green chemistry ever since Rachel Carson released her 4 year work tilted Silent Spring in 1962. Bit by bit, those who listened have rallied and pushed for a cleaner environment. In 2001 I did a course in Green Chemistry, and I was amazed at not only what had been done, but also at what was in store for the future. However, the Bush administration seemed to change all that, and many of those changes were never implemented.

I don't blame you for wishing to move into a place closer to nature, particularly with young children. I did the same 20 years ago. However, I didn't end up finding that health was any better preserved in this environment. We lived without power or hot water for 3 years. We heated the copper up for every bath - a bath which I'd salvaged from the bottom of a swamp. In retrospect I don't think it was so beneficial as we also lost a baby in this environment. It probably wasn't anything living in town would have prevented, but as a parent, one can only imagine what might have turned out differently had we had been closer to a hospital.

I believe most of the problems of the world come down to the number of humans living on the planet. There's already overpopulation in most major continents. It may not be that every square inch of land is occupied, but the ability for the remaining land to feed them all and continue to feed them all is something else. We need better planning, and science has been working on doing just that for years. Sure there have been consequences arrising from necessity, but one has to look at the whole picture before judging whether or not an action was warranted or worth the accompanying disadvantages.

Take DDT for example. Carsons book was the first publication to identify the problems associated with it's cheif metabolite DDE, and predicted much that followed over the next 2 decades. Yet DDT has saved countless thousands of lives through it's use as an insecticide to prevent the spread of malaria. Sure it's a short term fix, like many things, but at the time it meant lives saved. Today it has been largely replaced by combinations of pyrethroids used with a synergist. Would we have opted for the environmentally sound option had it been available in the 1950's. Possibly if scientists had anything to do with it. BUt economists would have likely made the decision, and as DDT is cheap to produce...


The thing is to not blame science for the actions of corporations. Science provides the data, politicians, economists, company directors and banks make the decisions.

Mabye you can answer this - was cancer here before man decided to mess around with everything?

Yes it was. Much of the cancer caused by genetic disposition was around for many years before science came about in any form as we know it. Some is just natural selection. I won't say incidences of cancer haven't increased since science has been instrumental in shaping our environment - it has, and undoubtedly some of this has stemmed from environmental contamination - but it becomes both greed and need that forces us to often compromise what is best with that which is prudent at the time.


BTW, scientists have been advocating a hydrogen economy for years. This would be a non-fossil fuel based energy system where water is the only by-product. However, until the recent energy crisis, it was never considered a viable alternative. But as the money makers realise that no product is no money, efforts are now underway to move towards this energy source.

Its quite amazing really, as in 2004 I asked a top level physical chemist if he though a hydrogen economy would ever come about. His reply was "Yes, in about 30 -40 years". I'd bet he thinks differently now.
 
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^^^^Good posts PD. I was just reading this excellent article on so called New Medicine, which basically employs the most sophisticated Western medical technology in diagnosis and clinical research while relying on traditional (chinese and otherwise) methods to effect cures and prevent recurrence of diseases.

True there are acute situations in which only radical Western-style surgery or chemical therapy can save the patient: for example, a bullet lodged near the heart or a virulent infectious disease. But for all the various and sundry chronic diseases and degenerative conditions that plague the human species and comprise a big percent of human ailments....a lot of Asians believe that traditional methods (Chinese medicine, some altervative/homeopathic cures, etc) have proven time and again to be far more effective, safe and permanent than western method, especially in the area of PREVENTIVE MEDICINE. Owning to this myopic attitude towards" alternative therapy" on the part of the American medical establishment , more and more Americans with serious ailments such as cancer are travelling to France, Germany, even Japan for treatment. The new Medicine provides a path of compromise as well as discovery in medical care, and it paves the way to a whole approach that synthesizes the best elements of East and West, alternative and conventional , past and present. I believe in educating myself on all aspects regarding my health (and that certainly includes conventional medicine & science) not just one , and learn how to apply what works best to my own body. After all, who knows ones body better than oneself?

Anybody can disagree with me here of course I dont claim this to be the "only truth" nor do I want to force this down anybodys throats. It is my opinion and I am just sharing it. I think it is important for everybody here to have open minds and not just quickly dismiss or put down someone else who may believe in the efficacy of something, apple cider vinegar or what not, just because of lack of "scientific proof. " , but saying so nicely and tactfully is a good start for some intelligent discussion. Carry on. :)
 
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Go and learn the science before attempting to undermine the principles responsible for us progressing as a species. Science is advancing all the time. What was allowed once - born often through necessity, and so advanced with childlike ignorance or half understanding - is today much more scrutinized and thoroughly evaluated.

When applied properly to nutrition, Scientific understanding is the reason why some people can survive on vegan and other diets. Those who don't check the body's requirements and insure they get sufficient of the nutrients etc required, usually suffer hideously later in life.

Just gotta quote this . :)
I'd also like to add that the preventive approach to health requires that the patient, not the physician, should play the major role.
 
Phase Dancer you seem honest, and well imformed as well as experienced.So your saying i shouldnt believe this BS anD refrain from drinkin this stuff everyday because it wont do me any good?Would a moderate daily dose be bad?

I'v also noticed from taking this stuff that the veins on my hands and arms have gained a good bit of volume and veins i couldnt see before are showing themselves on my arms and hands.I think this is a good thing since I'v noticed from past day to day observation that my veins are bigger when im well fed, hydrated and/or excersized.I have been working out lately but not much, certainly not enough to produce such a noticeable change.I dunno.

I guess il cut down, thanks for the responses:)
 
^^^depends how you feel really....if you feel better after cutting down, go for it. Im still drinking my apple cider regularly and feel nothing but better. :)
 
If you have doubts as to its effectiveness, then organize a double blind test with ACV and "regular" vinegars. I can suggest a possible way of doing this if you get stuck.
 
crystalcallas said:
^^^depends how you feel really....if you feel better after cutting down, go for it. Im still drinking my apple cider regularly and feel nothing but better. :)



Yup. Me too.
 
BTW, scientists have been advocating a hydrogen economy for years. This would be a non-fossil fuel based energy system where water is the only by-product.

Sorry to be off topic but sorry thats pure BS. Hydrogen is not a source of energy. Its really just an energy carrier. Its made from other energy sources, such as fossil fuel, because it takes as much energy to make hydrogen as you get out of it. Most of it today is made from natural gas and coal, and the processes that make it pollute, and its the really the fossil fuel and nuclear industries and some chronies in the government that are advocating a hydrogen as an energy "source", not scientists.

Go and learn the science before attempting to undermine the principles responsible for us progressing as a species.

I agree, but lets actually learn the science, instead of allowing our selves to be fooled by snake oil salesmen and other profiteers.

And getting on topic, but staying with the topic of science, does anybody have links to journal articles on apple cider vinagar? Or do we just have links to commercial web sites trying to sell us the stuff?
 
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Well, I can tell you this.... (just tried it a day or two ago). White distilled vinegar mixed with some water does wonders for athletes foot. No kidding, I soaked my footsies in the stuff for about 15min. X 2 nights in a row. All symptoms are 100% gone. Forget buying that $7.00 a can OTC crap.

Fungus must not like vinegar much.
 
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