Any vegans in the house?

[alterego.shadow]

As long as you're cool with killing animals, avoid eating processed meats, don't over consume the meat, don't burn it while cooking it, and eat only organic, can anyone tell me what's wrong with it?

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

There's a precursor to tryptophan that's found in plant-based diets--Doesn't require complicated food combinations, 'cause, unless I'm mistaken, you get it from legumes and the precursor gets turned into tryptophan with one of the amino acids found in grains. So, if you eat legumes and you eat grains, you're all set.

Yeah... wouldn't work for a lot of raw vegans who are intolerant to grains and most legumes like myself. This is what lead me away from being vegetarian before. So much of what people suggest, I can't have. Yet all meats, fish, eggs, etc I CAN have so it is hard.

edit: Maybe I just have to admit it: eating vegan or vegetarian isn't healthy. Sure, I feel stupendous when I'm eating a mostly raw diet. Yeah, my bowel movements are frequent, large, and enjoyable. No, my stomach is never bloated or grumbling, or painful and gassy. Yes, I drop excess weight that I probably shouldn't be carrying around. But, every nutritionist in the world is saying I'm lacking this or that, then I look up the symptoms of the deficiency and say to myself, "Hmm... maybe I feel that way." It's almost a feeling of guilt that I'm eating what appears to be healthy while most other people eat utter shit. Maybe I do need to get my 400 grams of protein a day? Maybe I need those extra pounds on my body? And maybe I need to eat those whole-wheat carbs that make me want to take a nap and have me feeling weighted down for hours? Who the fuck knows?

No... don't be like that. I do understand your frustration but I don't think that is true. You just need to tweak a few things, a few very small things.

Do you like sushi at all? I was thinking raw tuna might be good to have on my raw foods diet. Not vegan of course but could be a thing to try for awhile as your body needs.

I think the goal should be to be as vegan as possible, while listening to your body and focusing on the raw foods. I view meat now as more of a condiment or supplement almost, tiny bits here and there when I feel the need.

 

[SirTophamHat]

plenty of seeds, nuts, and grains are complete proteins. quinoa too.

i looked it up because this thread made me curious and it appears evening primrose seeds are 15% protein too

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

Maybe I do need to get my 400 grams of protein a day?

The only way your body could possibly use 400g of protein a day is if you are 250+ and on copious amounts of anabolic steroids.

I would suggest for your muscle building goals to shoot for 1g of protein per pound of LEAN mass (figure out your bodyfat percentage and subtract that from your total weight to get your lean mass weight).

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

plenty of seeds, nuts, and grains are complete proteins. quinoa too.

i looked it up because this thread made me curious and it appears evening primrose seeds are 15% protein too

yes, but have you ever examined these 'complete' proteins closer than just reading that they are a 'complete' proteins? They might contain all eight essential amino acids (thus making them a technical complete protein) but if you examine the QUANTITIES of each amino acid you may be surprised how little of one or the other the food contains (especially cystine and tryptophan).

 

[addictivepersona]

No, I think you are wrong. The human body cannot create tryptophan is my understanding. Please do go find that textbook though perhaps you can teach me something

You're right--I am wrong. Lol, thanks for being civil about it and not yellin' at me.

But yeah, apparently niacin is created from tryptophan. Not the other way around.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

www.nutritiondata.com is the best site, I've been using it to figure out specific amino acid profiles of different foods. Over time, I think I will be able to learn some awesome combinations of easily digested vegan foods that, together, make a complete amino acid profile.

Of course it isn't easy if your goal is to get 400grams of protein a day. It won't come out to that many grams. But remember it is the amino acids our bodies need, and yes there are amino acids in meat but meat is also more complex to digest, so I think if you eat a big variety of awesome vegetables, mushrooms, and fruit, in an educated way, then you will be getting a steady flow of amino acids into your body all day. Meat is just like insurance, a little serving of meat a few times a week to boost your amino acids until you get the vegan diet really well figured out. And maybe some never get to 100% vegan and that is all right with me. We do what we can.

But yeah, you can't just be like, soy/quinoa/whatever is a "complete" protein, I'm good to go! I did that for years and it resulted in me being very fucked up, health-wise. Cooked grains are not a good way to get protein anyway, very hard to digest. Vegans should try and get their aminos in the most enzyme rich, easy to digest way possible. It's not just what you eat, it's what you digest and absorb.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

It's not just what you eat, it's what you digest and absorb.

The new saying is: you are what you absorb!:D

 

[addictivepersona]

Over time, I think I will be able to learn some awesome combinations of easily digested vegan foods that, together, make a complete amino acid profile.

You are aware that they don't have to be eaten together, right? That's one thing I did ask the professor/dietitian about. The prof/diet didn't know the time frame of combining them (I've heard it has to be within 8 hours, I've heard within 36), but did say they didn't have to be at the same meal.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Yeah, I doubt it has to be in the same meal. I've heard it's over the course of a day or two depending on the person. I'm not really sure. Although I do think it's quite fun learning about foods and preparing some awesome meals that provide a lot of aminos. It makes me feel like a mad raw foods scientist. :D

 

[SirTophamHat]

yes, but have you ever examined these 'complete' proteins closer than just reading that they are a 'complete' proteins? They might contain all eight essential amino acids (thus making them a technical complete protein) but if you examine the QUANTITIES of each amino acid you may be surprised how little of one or the other the food contains (especially cystine and tryptophan).

You're right, I haven't done a complete analysis. Upon closer examination it looks like most of those sources do lack a signifcant amount of every single AA. I shouldn't have spoken so soon, in fact I remember from my nutrition courses that complete proteins in vegan diets are a big issue. Man am I glad I'm not a vegan!

 

[delta_9]

Plants are simply unable to sythesize cobalamin compounds.

Deja, plants may come into contact with bacteria containing B12, which is one way a plant source may contain B12.

 

[asecin]

i dunno what delta9 is going on about but there are many nutrients not present in plant food that you can get from small amounts of meat. so his obsession on only one of the many nutrients meat provides which is b12 seems strange to me.

 

[delta_9]

Wow, that was surprisingly civil of you, asecin. Thank you I truly mean that.

Other than iron, vitamin B12, and certain amino acids, I am unaware of any nutrients that are not avaialble via plant sources. Would you be so kind as to provide a source to your claim?

 

[asecin]

i have found many in the years but ill try to come up with few on top of my head.
like choline, biotin , phospatidyl choline, phosphatidyl serine, coenzyme q10, alpha lipoic acid, amino acids hardly found in other sources like acetyl-l-carnitine, cysteine, taurine, gluthatione etc. + essential fatty acids, cholesterol (needed for almost any function in the body), cryptoxanthin, zeaxanthin, and all the Bs, not just b12, in a very balanced, density ratio.

i guess my main point is, you can have all minerals and vitamins in high amounts in smaller grams meat, compared to high grams of plant food and the vitamins and minerals in small grams meat is in density, balanced ratio compared to mixed sources of plant food in huge grams daily. THAT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE BTW.

anyway, i know this argument will go on and on because you will defend what you do and its useless to convince you otherwise because then you wont be yourself so you have good reasons to be what you are and IM NOT TRYING TO CHANGE YOU, im just saying its more complicated than just a simple b12 supplement to get all you need from plants.

 

[delta_9]

choline/phospatidyl choline/phosphatidyl serine

All found in soy

biotin

Found in Arabidopsis

coenzyme q10

Found in all organisms that perform oxidative phosphorylation

alpha lipoic acid

Synthesized in all plants and animals

Acetyl-L-carnitine

Also synthesized by both plants and animals

cysteine

Final step of sulfate assimilation in bacteria and plants

taurine

Found in some seaweed, fungi and bacterias

glutathion

Widely distributed in plant cells

essential fatty acids

Species of algea contain ALA

cryptoxanthin

Has been isolated from the genus Physalis

zeaxanthin

Present in many dark, leafy vegetables.


And before you fly off the handle, Yes! I agree these compounds are found less in plants than in animals. But my only point was that they are present.

The only thing on that list not found in the plant kingdom(that I am aware of) is cholesterol. And I eat eggs every week so no worries

guess my main point is, you can have all minerals and vitamins in high amounts in smaller grams meat, compared to high grams of plant food

Agreed however I chose not to eat meat for moral reasons

im just saying its more complicated than just a simple b12 supplement to get all you need from plants.

Indeed it is. I don't believe I ever said anything to the contrary...

 

[asecin]

delta9 all the sources you mentioned that you can find those things in, i cannot eat them. so for me and probably others like me, they are useless.

 

[delta_9]

Well that's unfortunate, however there are plenty of people who can eat them. (Barring physalis, what is so bad about them anyway?)

I didn't even list actual species. How are you unable to eat 'dark, leafy vegetables'?

 

[asecin]

depends. some i can, some i cannot. it can be various reasons, but some its the high oxalates i have kidney problems for one but also i noticed other negative effects from oxalates for certain individuals (not everyone) but im sure most.

also i wanna correct myself for zeaxanthin, i meant astaxanthin which is prolly found in algae anyway.

 

[Changed]

you guys... arguing about zeazathnyls and astaxathantyls.

I'm going to eat my leafy greens while you guys go back and forth.