• Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Any drugs that increase REM fraction of sleep?

VelocideX

VelocideX

Bluelighter
Joined
May 26, 2003
Messages
4,744
Apologies if this is the wrong forum... I'm not really sure where it belongs.

There's a plethora of drugs that suppress REM sleep. Benzos, essentially all of the antidepressants (with, perhaps, the exception of trazodone), alcohol, opiates, etc.

Is there anything that increases the REM fraction of sleep time? I'm mainly interested in already marketed pharmaceuticals, rather than unavailable lab compounds :)
 
Similarly, are there any drugs which promote slow wave (stage 3 & 4) sleep? I'm not referring to things like zolpidem, which allow you to get to sleep faster whilst leaving stage 3 & 4 relatively untouched. I'm talking about increasing the total sleep fraction.
 
yes, for a fact, melatonin.

synthetic sublingual tablet, 3mg, 1 hour b4 bed works best, Source Naturals is a brand i can swear by, having tried them all for circadian disturbances related to jetlag.
 
Indeed, melatonin will make you dream like mad. I also agree with the Source Naturals recommendation: cheap and effective!


~Maitland
 
I think most stimulant drugs will work well for this. Of course there's the problem of being able to get to sleep in the first place though. I have a feeling GHB (GBL) would be ideal for this purpose as it initally helps you to sleep, and then after a few hours as the action on the GHB receptor rather than GABA-B becomes important (going by certain theories as to GHB action), a stimulant effect comes into play which can wake you up, and can also generate some fascinating and vivid dreams.
 
Yeah, but the changes made by melatonin, if any are like 3 minutes more REM sleep a night.. on average.

I instantly think of pro-acetylcholinergic drugs... so I did a bit of a search, and I found this for you:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16192980&query_hl=11

Now I have no idea about the regulations getting donepezil in Australia, but I don't think it would be that hard to do, either with customs sanctions or not.
 
nanobrain said:
yes, for a fact, melatonin.

synthetic sublingual tablet, 3mg, 1 hour b4 bed works best, Source Naturals is a brand i can swear by, having tried them all for circadian disturbances related to jetlag.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've also found those useful...

as bilz0r has said, though, the increase isn't particularly significant.
 
VelocideX said:
Yeah I've also found those useful...

as bilz0r has said, though, the increase isn't particularly significant.
Click to expand...

Actually, nicotine patch gives you incredible dreams, problem is it is hard to fall asleep sometimes. Doesnt nicotine also affect acetylecholine?
 
Amanita Muscaria, that works VERY well for dreaming, in small quantities, and there are a few dreaming herbs that I have yet to try, Calea, and Silene Capensis are supposed to be the best.

Look into Entada Rheedii also.
 
Low dose amitriptyline (10-25mg) about 2 hours before desired sleep time seems to work pretty well for me. I actually alternate Flexeril and amitriptyline about every 2-3 weeks because one will stop working. I do use benzos too but I do find that they do not give a restorative sleep. I find Zopliclone seems to interfere with slow wave sleep less than benzos, at least subjectively.

I also use melatonin and it is likely the best REM enhancer I know of.
 
Amitryp knocks you out because it's an antihistamine, and hence, Amitryp robs you of REM[1] like other H1 antagonists[2].
 
Mugwort (even in a dream pillow) will promote REM sleep. Optimum season for picking is considered to be mid-late summer.
 
having an ongoing predilection to THC for the last 25 years, i am chronically REM deprived.

in addition to melatonin, i find Damiana smoke / tea and GNC's Triple Lecithin (standardised to 1,200mg choline) useful for dream induction / REM increasment.

i also ten to doubt the 3-4 minute increase from melatonin - i venture its more like 30-40 minutes more in my case anyhow.

with melatonin, i also note the ability to recall the dreams, as well as facilitation of lucid dreaming.


Valerian root is also good.
 
Wormwood (Artemesia Absinthum) in a dream pillow also works very well.

I have two large plants myself, and I find it works really well.
 
^ You case maybe... though self reports of REM-sleep vs other forms of shallow sleep are essentially completely useless.

My report of the small increase melatonin gives, comes from the most recent metareview here. However, I was getting confused with the change in sleep onset, quoted as 4.0 min (95% CI 2.5, 5.4).

The three studies I am awear of, which studied melatonins effect on sleep-architure, showed that melatonin had no effect on %REM (there was a change in REM latency, but this was because of decreases in sleep latency)[1, 2, 3].
 
thats fairly low numbers for running power stats in dem non-meta studies (n=10-15) and only n=280 in da meta - which has to be recorrelated due to protocol differences / confounds anyhow.

i bet i am not alone in 30-40 minute range. oft, the REM seems to last almost the entire night - all dreamstate until morning.

when i take 6mg, thats too much, leaving a delayed lethargy late into the next morn. 1.5mg is not enough for REM induction, only for decreasing the latency of sleep onset.
 
Don't get me wrong, all those studies are shit, but as I say, self reports of REM are shit... But even ignoring that... if people were getting 30min differences in REM sleep, it would show up in a study of 15 people, where total REM times were like 80 minutes with SDs of 25minutes...
 
My first dose of 1.5mg melatonin after a while of being up gave me a very light sleep and I don't think I entered REM through the course of the night. I woke up at 6am, watched the sunrise then hit the sack and finally got some well needed REM. But I worked out my dosages. 0.25mg sublingual is sometimes enough to get me to sleep nowadays.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top