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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Anxiety - UK Doctors Will Prescribe ANYTHING BUT Anti-Anxiety Meds

We live in a society that doctors refer to as 'everybody gets a pill'. Well, avoiding alcohol and caffeine, increased exercise (limited in my case) and a serious attempt to address the source of the anxiety is usually more appropriate. It's the insomnia rather than the anxiety that has made me bother a medical professional.

Since I suffer seizures AND NESD, it's only when those two symptoms become significant that I would even bother my doctor. It has to last for weeks.

But if you rule out the medications that lower seizure threshold, only then will a doctor consider it.

If it's an ongoing problem, SSRIs are more appropriate but neuroleptics are toxic crap and so really should not be employed for any off-label purpose.

It's all about your relationship with your doctor. If they don't see you for years and then you ring only when in significant difficulty, they are more likely to be helpful. As others have said, benzodiazepines only work for a very limited time and so if you suffer long-term GAD, they won't help - beyond the placebo effect.
 
Many people won't entertain the idea that benzos can and do work over a sustained period for some people. Even on Bluelight. It is possible to get round the tolerance and dose escalations by taking breaks and rotating substances. I am about 6 years and counting now, and still on less than 2mg of etizolam as an effective dose. Before that I had been about 6 years on and off too. With a 6 month brteak in the middle. And people say it can't be done. Believe me I know the difference between a placebo effect and the real thing.

If I hadnt started weekend and evening activities I would be doing much better with keeping my doses lower. But admittedly trying to get more into my life is making the whole exercise more difficult.

SSRIs are an absolute con trick. Apparently there is serious evidential doubt about the validity of the whole low serotonin concept the whole class of medications is supposed to based on.
 
Bleaney said:
Many people won't entertain the idea that benzos can and do work over a sustained period for some people. Even on Bluelight. It is possible to get round the tolerance and dose escalations by taking breaks and rotating substances. I am about 6 years and counting now, and still on less than 2mg of etizolam as an effective dose. Before that I had been about 6 years on and off too. With a 6 month brteak in the middle. And people say it can't be done. Believe me I know the difference between a placebo effect and the real thing.

If I hadnt started weekend and evening activities I would be doing much better with keeping my doses lower. But admittedly trying to get more into my life is making the whole exercise more difficult.

SSRIs are an absolute con trick. Apparently there is serious evidential doubt about the validity of the whole low serotonin concept the whole class of medications is supposed to based on.
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There ARE exceptions, but the studies employed used thousands of patients and statistically, most people develop tolerance which, if the drug is continued, dependence.

Etizolam IS an interesting one. Since it seems to be a high-affinity low-efficacy ligand and of course, their will be a minority for who it is ideal. But sadly, 1 person isn't statistically significant. In the 60s, doctors thought benzos were a miracle because they could prescribe it for almost ANYTHING and the patient WOULD feel an improvement - if only because it masks the symptoms.

But etizolam isn't used in most nations. A few seem to feel alprazolam has continued antidepressant effects but again, it's more a case of keeping down the doctors work-load rather than addressing the true cause.

But to be fair, B, you have been proactive and tried tofisopam and I know you are aware of etifoxine - so we aren't out of options. But most doctors are just struggling to keep their benzodiazepine prescribing down. A friend has been on temazepam for YEARS. So I got a gram of norflunitrazepam, dissolved it in 1L of water and taught him the 'Chinese Cure' and after about 6 weeks, he quit. Every day he drank 1mL of the solution and added 1mL of plain water.... and in the end, he just stopped.

I WAS a bit annoyed that he poured away the rest so I've never even sampled norflunitrazepam... but as fast&bulbous has noted - nitrobenzodiazepines are bad for the body.
 
I know people on benzos for the treatment of epilepsy to prevent seizures that have taken them their whole life. Perhaps specific ones that are primarily anticonvulsants don't lose efficacy when taken even long term?
 
They are specifically used to treat myoclonic jerks. If taken for a long period, clonazepam becomes less effective and the dose has to be slowly increased from 0.75 to 12mg/day which is no good thing. 12mg of clonazepam is getting to dangerous levels

Clobazam, a 1,5-benzodiazepine has a significantly different action and over 22 years my dose has not altered. It also has a plateau in it's effects. Beyond 20mg TID, it displays no further increase in activity.
 
This plateau people talk about I think I may have experienced. I'm on 40mg diazepam a day, several times I've been more anxious and took 80mg on those days and didn't feel any more relief than if I'd taken my usual 40

Yes clobazam is very interesting it doesn't seem to cause tolerance not sure about dependence

There is also midazolam for emergencies in case the seizure lasts longer than 5 minutes
 
I think different benzos have different levels of anxiety reduction. I'd rate Etizolam and Pyrazolam both as the most effective in a highly functional manner. I'd rate Phenazepam even higher, but not in a healthy or functional way, that was pure disinhibition that lead me (and I'm far from the only one) into very impulsive behaviour and poorly controlled actions and hair trigger reactions. . The elimination of anxiety was so extreme that it lead to some kind of unhealthy urge for thrill seeking behaviours of various undesirable kinds. Maybe it set off some part of my possible ADHD but I'm not sure if that's relevant, I think those substances are known for those effects. Very Similar to GBL in that way I consider myself miraculously fortunate that I never ended up in the back of a police van or much worse due to the total disinhibition those substances caused on my self control. I guess my saving grace was that a great deal of the time I stayed in my home after consuming those substances, thus minimising the public mayhem and spectacale I could make of myself.
 
Ismene2 said:
I remember when Freddie Starr got hooked om valium he said he would put a giant box of frosties in a washing up bucket, add a couple pints of milk and scoff the fucking lot
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The horrors of addiction! Frosties are never the solution. Same with Ian Botham the cricketer and bragging about how many Shredded Wheat he could eat. Pretty sordid stuff. Have had issues with GBL and amphetamine in the past 20 years but managed to keep my nose clean with regard to breakfast cereal.:)
 
mauve said:
This plateau people talk about I think I may have experienced. I'm on 40mg diazepam a day, several times I've been more anxious and took 80mg on those days and didn't feel any more relief than if I'd taken my usual 40

Yes clobazam is very interesting it doesn't seem to cause tolerance not sure about dependence

There is also midazolam for emergencies in case the seizure lasts longer than 5 minutes
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I have received both lorazepam and clomethiazole to treat a tonic-clonic seizure that lasted for over 15 minutes. By rights I should be dead, but the use of clomethiazole (a DLR) shows how seriously the condition wat taken. I hadn't slept for 12 days. No drugs involved, just anxiety.

There are some clobazam derivatives bearing the triazolo ring which in theory should be order of magnitude more potent, but ultimately, I suspect that 20mg (or maybe a bit more) provides almost 100% receptor occupancy.

There are also a5 selective clobazam homologues which are 'alcohol-like' and are handy for emulating upto a 6 pack of beer. Beyond that, you don't get any more 'pseudo drunk' which seems to me a valuable compound. To emulate ALL doses of alcohol requires another ligand... and that's one I'm keeping to myself.
 
Bleaney said:
Many people won't entertain the idea that benzos can and do work over a sustained period for some people. Even on Bluelight. It is possible to get round the tolerance and dose escalations by taking breaks and rotating substances. I am about 6 years and counting now, and still on less than 2mg of etizolam as an effective dose. Before that I had been about 6 years on and off too. With a 6 month brteak in the middle.
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This translates to YEARS of addiction, Bleaney. There has to be a better wsy for you. :(
 
BelleRed said:
This translates to YEARS of addiction, Bleaney. There has to be a better wsy for you. :(
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As I have mentioned elsewhere, etizolam does seem different in character to most benzodiazepines. It's dependence liability is significantly lower likely because it doesn't have much a1 affinity.

Pyrazolam was designed specifically to be a3/a4 selective so that it does not produce physical dependence. It's a useful anxiolytic with no hypnotic activity at normal doses and has a simply massive TI. I once took 100mg to test it's inherent safety. I was pretty relaxed for about 5 days, but I didn't pass out.
 
@BelleRed It's not an addiction because I can stop using benzos, the worst symptoms I get are rebound insomnia and anxiety. But I have no physical addiction or cravings per se. It seems very likely that I have Etizolam to thank for that, but more by luck than judgement in the beginning, it became my benzo of first choice. And has been ever since. Only later did I learn about it's improved tolerance, addiction, and dependency liability, compared to other benzos.

I do have to face the fact that I probably have a dependency. But even that is only based around having to mask my Autism at work, as much as possible. My attempts at masking are definitely far from 100% successful as I'm still having issues which I attribute to my Autism. But benzos eliminate the crippling anxiety and stress I would otherwise have to deal with on top of everything else. If I could work from home or didn't have to be around people in open plan offices I could get by OK without benzos.

All UK sources of Etizolam that I can find have currently ran out of Etiz anyway, or just don't sell it at all, so my next move will be quite an important one.

I'm looking into getting out of this current job, it's a very bad fit for me all round, causes loads of anxiety and stress, and the workload is way beyond what I can deal with in the hours of 9-5 Mon-Fri. Management don't seem to care, but I will have to see what happens over the next few weeks.
 
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So possible dependence but certainly not addiction.

Previously I have mentioned etifoxine and other compounds that might prove to be as effective and importantly, remain legal world-wide.
 
Pyrazolam only seemed to be available for a very short window of time on the RC sites. Either it was very popular and a very good seller, or only 1 batch was produced and brought to the market at that time. Probably both I would guess.

IIRC I only ever got one bag of 50 or 100 tablets. When I realised that I liked it and looked to re-order it was already no longer available anywhere.

A big shame that not more was produced.
 
Oh - many dozens of 1Kg batches (2 million tablets per Kg) were made - but as soon as UK law changed, we stopped making them. The Chinese have never been able to copy them.
 
My memory must be playing tricks on me as that era is a bit of a haze tbh. Pyrazolam did only seem to be available for a relatively short space of time though.

From what you say it was clearly the change in the law that caused the end of it all too soon.
 
Yeah - we were totally for 'defensive design' and concluded that if our product was safer than anything used in medicine, the law wouldn't control it. It's when things like phenazpam and norflunitrazepam showed up (cheaper to make) that the law changed.

It's not like it's the only class of compound that acts as a PAM at the 'benzodiazepine site'. I have 40 years work of patents on the works of Bayer who have a novel class just as potent, just as simple to make.

I pride myself on keeping dozens of DEA experts in employment ;-)
 
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